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Paris Magazine Shooting


Doro
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I could easily say "And you presume they do something because ?"

 

Because of the evidence.  because of the amount of radicalisation that goes on.

 

Don't forget you live in the US, I live in the UK, two very different places.

 

Here for example is an article (apologies for the length)  from the Spectator from June last year . Posted it rather than just linked it incase there's regional restrictions to accessing it.

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9230671/who-runs-our-mosques/

 

 

 

 

 

One of the comments

 

That does not answer the question. Your response is still predicated on the bias that it must be due to the Imams inaction that radical movements exist.  Nonesense.  There are way, WAY too many other factors involved in the issue to lay blame at one source.  That there are some mosques promoting hate and violence I have NO DOUBT.  But I do not accept that they are representative of the norm, as I have been to and witnessed for myself the opposite in many.

 

And at that, do you really want to lay the blame at the feet of avegarge good people who spend thier life's work trying to build their communities rather than destroy them? Because that is what I have seen at every mosque I ever went to.  As the angry muslim in the video below indicates, Islam "teaches you to be tolerant and to have respect for other people's religions."  He is like many muslims I have known: they are sad and also very angry that they are being labeled and associated with nut-jobs, let alone that their Imams are getting blamed, and they quite frankly powerless to make it stop given the political battle by those governing them - on both sides. All they can do is what they ARE doing: report offenses to the authorities where found, teach their children to practice their religion without hate, and condemn any who take up violence in the name of their faith.  No different that what a decent Christian or Jew would do.

 

And by the way, what is going on in the UK is frankly not all that different than the fanatical movement of the National of Islam in the US, which under the guise of "peace" has been teaching radical anitsemitism and black supremacy for nigh 80 years.

 

I can see where most of this is going, and frankly just feel disgusted.  These issues are not black and white (not meaning race here) and cannot be watered down to just such two sides. 

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

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Just saw this:

http://mic.com/articles/108166/one-student-s-epic-tweets-call-out-the-biggest-hypocrites-marching-for-free-speech-in-paris

 

Thought it was worth bringing it to your attention to highlight just how hypocritical some of these morons are.

 

I'm speechless after reading that article ...

 

 

Not sure what I expected would happen after the attack on charlie hebdo yet as far as EU politicians are concerned nothing will be done. It's almost as if having over one million people march for peace would be enough to magically solve any problem.

 

 

Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

 

Is the muslim religion built on sand that one single cartoon is all it takes to rock their boat? Do they have no options other than to kill people when they feel offended?

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

Actually, s/he doesn't have much of a point. If someone makes a joke with the participation of gay people that's not exactly intolerance. Just as if a journal attacks religion for the sake of hating that's not just freedom of speech.

Your friend is comparing apples with oranges which is frequent and, whatever, but --more importantly-- ask him/her if it's worth to worship a deity with no sense of humor :)

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

His point falls down when people start killing for having hurt feelings. Prior to that, most people get treated as racists and xenophobes for mocking Islam. You'd find a similar outrage if gays started screaming 'YOO HOOOOO!' and then gunning down a bunch of innocent people.

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Well, maybe some of these ISIS guys need to be shot in the face by some gay guy.

*said with straight face*


So much moronics going on from the press worldwide, atm, I'm not really going to be paying any attention to what some random blogger/journalist says about a situation that he's misanalyzed.

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So much moronics going on from the press worldwide, atm, I'm not really going to be paying any attention to what some random blogger/journalist says about a situation that he's misanalyzed.

OIC. "I'm not going to comment, except insofar as I'm going to ventilate my unargued opinion, whilst refusing to substantiate it in any way, shape or form." Class act.

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

 

Yet, there are millions upon millions of muslims that does not feel the urge to go and murder people just because someone poked a little fun at their religion.

I didn't see any Catholics storming Charlie Hebdo when they poked fun at the Pope.

I haven't seen a network of homosexuals plotting and committing acts of terror because someone's attacked their sexuality.

If you attack your own country with anything aside from words, you are using violence as a way of spreading a message(probably), which is terrorism.

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He called bullshit on the killings, but there's more than one piece out there pointing out the fact Hebdo is quite the .... let's call it the "Fox News" of satire.

 

tl;dr for practicality, "Condemn the killings and the killers, but don't go making saints out of Charlie Hebdo as a whole" 

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I haven't seen a network of homosexuals plotting and committing acts of terror because someone's attacked their sexuality.

You haven't seen enough gay-pride parades, then. It should be considered terrorism for them to have such a terrible sense of fashion.

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I believe all people here are doing is defending Charlie Hebdo's right to print Satire, in accordance with what the laws regulating this in France state.

As Fox News have the right to be a bunch of morons, and people have the right to lampoon them for being morons.


You haven't seen enough gay-pride parades, then. It should be considered terrorism for them to have such a terrible sense of fashion.

 

Trust me, I have seen enough of those!

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

 

These quotes from someone else says what I think.(have to be registered to read) http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5147767&page=45

 

You're quite ok to mock the Old Testament, laugh at silly Kosher laws or take a dig at the Talmud - as that is 'Judaism'. Making slurs against the 'Jewish people' is Anti-Semitism.

 

Making fun of a set of beliefs is one thing, calling for the persecution of an entire group is quite another. Charlie Hebdo did the former, not the latter. Je suis Charlie.
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You haven't seen enough gay-pride parades, then. It should be considered terrorism for them to have such a terrible sense of fashion.

 

ROFL, reminds me of about 16 years ago, on a stag weekend in Amsterdam, turned out it was a Gay pride weekend and 7 out of 10 honestly had the stereotypical skimpy leather shorts, string vest and flat cap

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you went back into 'well I've met good ones' as though that means anything. 

 

Not really. I am not talking about people I met. Why not argue about the actual point, instead of making up that someone said something.

 

Straw man. This is the fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's argument, rather than the actual argument they've made. Often this fallacy involves putting words into somebody's mouth by saying they've made arguments they haven't actually made.

 

So, care to back up this obvious statement of bullshit you made (quoted below). How can you defend this statement? What are you basing your view of the majority? And by majority of muslims, you mean only muslims in the middle east - which are less than 20% of the muslims world wide?  test

 

The majority sympathise with what the 'radicals' do.

 

 

Are you so lazy that you just want to spout off ridiculous statements, but are not willing to back them up of offer any proof?

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Found this from a muslim on my facebook.... some may not like the comment but he does have a point... 

 

"FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS NONSENSE" When you attack black people they call it "racism", when you attack jewish people they call it "antisemitism", when you attack women they call it "gender discrimination", when you attack homosexuality they call it "intolerance", when you attack your country they call it "terrorism", when you attack a religious sect they call it "hate speech", but when they attack at the dignity of our prophet MUHAMMAD (Peace be upon him) they call it "Freedom of Expression". If the world is carrying such attitude towards islam and muslims then I'm sorry you are provoking more anger.

Every other religion is open season for satire, why should Islam be any different?

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That does not answer the question. Your response is still predicated on the bias that it must be due to the Imams inaction that radical movements exist.  Nonesense.  There are way, WAY too many other factors involved in the issue to lay blame at one source.  That there are some mosques promoting hate and violence I have NO DOUBT.  But I do not accept that they are representative of the norm, as I have been to and witnessed for myself the opposite in many.

 

And at that, do you really want to lay the blame at the feet of avegarge good people who spend thier life's work trying to build their communities rather than destroy them? Because that is what I have seen at every mosque I ever went to.  As the angry muslim in the video below indicates, Islam "teaches you to be tolerant and to have respect for other people's religions."  He is like many muslims I have known: they are sad and also very angry that they are being labeled and associated with nut-jobs, let alone that their Imams are getting blamed, and they quite frankly powerless to make it stop given the political battle by those governing them - on both sides. All they can do is what they ARE doing: report offenses to the authorities where found, teach their children to practice their religion without hate, and condemn any who take up violence in the name of their faith.  No different that what a decent Christian or Jew would do.

 

And by the way, what is going on in the UK is frankly not all that different than the fanatical movement of the National of Islam in the US, which under the guise of "peace" has been teaching radical anitsemitism and black supremacy for nigh 80 years.

 

I can see where most of this is going, and frankly just feel disgusted.  These issues are not black and white (not meaning race here) and cannot be watered down to just such two sides. 

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

However I want to make one thing very very very clear.

 

From the outset I have tried to say that I couldn't care less what people choose to believe in or not to believe in.

 

I have said what it's beginning to feel like in the UK, and trust me, I am far far far more tolerant than most people I see, if I have niggling worries, others will be talking about getting out their pitchforks.

 

Unlike most, I have little problem with immigration, I am glad I belong to the EU. Racism is something I have never ever ever been able to comprehend. I simply cannot get my head around how someone can hate someone else just due to the colour of their skim, it simply doesn't add up to me.

 

This is nothing to do with race, it's about a particular religious group acting in a way that goes against many things the UK stands for.   It isn't just about extremists.  But add the extremists on top and it's understandable why so many people are giving their views

 

Years ago we had working mens clubs, clubs just for men, no women allowed, they had to change their rules as it was deemed illegal. Fair enough.

 

Now we have mosques where women aren't allowed. And a blind eye is turned.

 

It's the double standard that has many people in the UK on edge. Nearly everyone is scared stiff of offending a Muslim.

 

A friend of my daughters worked for a recruitment agency in London last year, upon starting she was told, "we don't send out anyone called Mohammed"

 

That sounds blatantly wrong. 

 

A few years ago I employed two muslims, We worked in a 24/7 computer room. I asked them just as I asked all people of any religion etc if they are prepared to work any shift even if it falls on a religious holiday.  I stressed that if cover could be found, then shift swaps could be made. But if it couldn't, they would be expected to work.

 

No problem they both said.

 

One of them was the nicest guy you could meet, he stuck to his word, the other one took every single one of his religious holidays off sick.

 

Now, if anyone else did that (every public holiday, Christmas etc)  they would be given warnings and finally fired. I was not allowed to even warn this guy as the company was scared stiff of being taken to court.

 

End result was that the other IT staff harboured resentment, one rule for them one rule for others, and I said, "fine, I'll never employ another Muslim then" and I never did.

 

Now I know that  wasn't the average Muslims fault, but its what our society has become.

 

Only last week I heard people talking of this leading to a war.

 

I believe we need to discuss this, it's a very very very real problem int he UK, there's a LOT of hatred towards Muslims,. I have no hatred to wards them, but that doesn't stop me being worried with what I see happening.

 

One of the biggest causes of this in my opinion is for when people try to discuss it, they get called haters etc or have it implied they are anti Muslim etc.

 

It needs to be discussed, the Imams need to get out of their Mosques, get on TV more and talk to non Muslims, because at the moment, there's one or two while the rest remain silent.

 

The Government needs to make sure that laws applied to one section of society is also applied to all others.

 

I get it, you have had great experiences with Muslims, Guess what, So have I. But the few Muslim friends I know are very very very reluctant to get drawn into any conversation about extremism, woman's rights etc.  and in my opinion, they are not doing themselves any favours.

 

When for example  we have more British born Muslims fighting in Syria than in the armed forces, alarm bells do ring, and your personal experience is not going to change that, sorry.

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He called bullshit on the killings, but there's more than one piece out there pointing out the fact Hebdo is quite the .... let's call it the "Fox News" of satire.

 

tl;dr for practicality, "Condemn the killings and the killers, but don't go making saints out of Charlie Hebdo as a whole" 

Nothing is sacred to Mad Magazine, haven't seen Muslims bombing them.

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