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Dev posts regarding population consolidation


LasraelLarson
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Well at least they're trying to make it a smooth experience. There has to be something major in the Data. They seem to be doing more than just the minimum to push this through. Are any of the old CM people still around, maybe they could shed some light.

 

Nice thing for people who have transferred previously, if they left an alt on their original server they'll be able to get all their stuff back short of Destiny. Though I still find it odd they consider those things Account Level when they are Server specific.

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It is surprising, yes. But I'd still wait for actual implementation of all promised things. ;) I don't follow Turbine's hiring as some might, but it would be surprising if they went and hired more people considering the big WB lay-offs last year, and didn't WB promise to keep making consistent cuts every year? It might make more sense if internal resources are borrowed instead (what's going on with IC these days? lol).

Oh, 'seeing is believing' is the only true way with Turbine, that's for sure. But yes, I was thinking about internal rearrangements (with IC in mind, actually, haha).

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Vyvyanne     Jan. 30,2015  02:50 PM

Executive Produce

Originally Posted by Tuco

Thank you for the update, Vyvyanne. It looks very promising. Good information, and it raised a couple of questions for me.
Two questions on this:

1. If we're moving some characters to different servers (e.g. one to an RP kinship on Laurelin and another to a music kinship on Landroval), can we take some of the currency and marks and shards and wardrobe (for example) to each, or will it be everything from one server to another server?

2. What happens if the receiving bin is full -- do we need to have enough empty shared storage and wardrobe and housing storage to accept everything from the old server, or will there be some kind of overflow system to allow later pruning on the new server?

1. For splitting your characters between destination worlds, you will need to choose which one gets all the account items. We can only send the account data to one world.

2. There will be an overflow if destination inventory is full

Housing questions: More details on the changes to that system as we get closer to finalizing design on it, same for Name conflicts.

Can I choose the world my character goes to? Yes. You will be able to choose which world each of your characters goes to individually or select all the characters on one world and send them all to the other world of your choosing at once.


Vyvyanne     Jan. 30, 2015  02:58 PM

Executive Producer

 

Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist
Yeah, I noticed that with copies too - I just hope that its the same for transfers, and this is something that definitely needs to be clarified.
All items that currently transfer with Characters will still transfer, including character bound items and storage.
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Can I choose the world my character goes to? Yes. You will be able to choose which world each of your characters goes to individually or select all the characters on one world and send them all to the other world of your choosing at once.

 

That sounds really nice.

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I discovered something interesting about abandoned kinhouses. All unbound items now go to the kinleaders escrow and, as far as I know, stay there forever since it's been about 6 months since I lost my kinhouse. Bound items go directly into your personnal house vault. If you don't have a personal house I assume they go to escrow for a limited time and then are lost forever. I lost a few things, but since my Hunter was my main and she owns the house I still have most of my trophies. I did lose my beloved Sword of Thaulach which my Burg owned :(

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I would really urge them to use this opportunity to let people buy more character slots, more shared vault and more housing chests.

Cash for them and it would make a lot of these things a lot easier for a number of customers, me included (those who are willing to pay for real service and real returns such as storage and slots).

The overflow thing with items randomly ending up in overflow will be a nightmare to sort out if you moved to a server where you already had maxed out. If some people volunteer to pay, why not?

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I would really urge them to use this opportunity to let people buy more character slots, more shared vault and more housing chests.

Cash for them and it would make a lot of these things a lot easier for a number of customers, me included (those who are willing to pay for real service and real returns such as storage and slots).

The overflow thing with items randomly ending up in overflow will be a nightmare to sort out if you moved to a server where you already had maxed out. If some people volunteer to pay, why not?

Heh. The cynics would have a field day calling the whole thing a cash grab.
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Heh. The cynics would have a field day calling the whole thing a cash grab.

Well, they can't get around providing overflow for storage and I think the limited of purchased character slots is easy enough to understand. If your desired server has all slots taken pick another one or buy slots.

Of course they could do something radical and give people back what they had. If we have -say- 20 servers now with 11 character slots max each why not up the limit to 22 slots when there are 10 servers for the same money? Haha. Not gonna happen. But I would be willing to pay.

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"Are any of the old CM people still around, maybe they could shed some light"

 

I still pop-in.. fire away...

 

I don't know how much you know about this but would you consider the inability to transfer between EU and US servers unsolvable? Seems to me that whilst it may take a fair bit of work any decent DBA should be able to sort out any database conflicts.

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The only reason I can think of is the unique char ID's, since the EU servers started from scratch they would conflict with the US ones (either that or the 2 sets of code are patched to different versions but this seems unlikely).

 

I do recall the char ID is something that is more than a simple ID that uniquely identifies that record, (iirc) it probably holds more info than just that within it and so it's not simply a case of blocking out a range of ID's on each set of servers. For instance you couldn't simply give a char a completely new ID in the database and it work...

 

Would it be unsolveable? I don't think so (like all code problems it's probably doable with an infinite amount of monkeys), but I don't see Turbine having the resources to fix that problem in the timescale they want to move at...

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  • 3 weeks later...
Wednesday, February 25   11:41 AM

Community Manager

 

There have not been updates on this because right now we have no real new information. The work is progressing and the team is continuing to get everything they need to get done. When we have some new information we will certainly pass it along, but as of now we do not have anything new on this. And yes the snow did not help, but it will not have a significant impact on when the work is finished.



In short, things are progressing but there is really not anything new we have to share right now. When we do have more information, you can be sure it will be posted here.


that's the latest.  nothing new to talk about, but thought i'd add it just the same.

 

the unprecedented snow will not significantly impact the time budget for completion.

 

if i haven't said it here, i have in other threads...  the contracted agreement to move to new hosting will determine just how long they have.

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...Would it be unsolveable? I don't think so (like all code problems it's probably doable with an infinite amount of monkeys), but I don't see Turbine having the resources to fix that problem in the timescale they want to move at...

that seems to be why this isn't getting addressed.  whatever work they have done in the past looking for a solution; it was deemed that what was required was not acceptable to proceed with the work.

 

it may be that the solution required an extended downtime &(or) a set of skilled labor working for a dedicated period of time, they could not budget for from existing employees, funds & time.

 

regardless, it's been removed from the actionable list.

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Maybe they lost some enthusiasm when they realized that they have a database screwup preventing EU<->US server transfers (without real engineering work)?

That puts a big dent into the value of the improved server transfer.

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What would be nice from my viewpoint is if Turbine could create an interface where a player could drag-and-drop available character slots from one server to another.  For example, I don't have any characters on Vanyar, so I would make better use of those slots (which are a part of my paid subscription) during the server closures, giving a place on other servers for my characters from closing servers to move to.

 

But I doubt they'd do something so considerate.

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What would be nice from my viewpoint is if Turbine could create an interface where a player could drag-and-drop available character slots from one server to another.  For example, I don't have any characters on Vanyar, so I would make better use of those slots (which are a part of my paid subscription) during the server closures, giving a place on other servers for my characters from closing servers to move to.

 

But I doubt they'd do something so considerate.

I don't believe that would save them anything over just giving you a much higher max.

Ideally they shouldn't have a limit on character slots anyway. Easy money selling more slots to people like me who need them for packratting or whatever.

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Vyvyanne     Monday, Mar. 2  2015   05:34 PM
Executive Produce

 

An Update

 

Hi all,

 

My apologies for being off the forums these last few weeks. I have been extremely busy.

Progress is coming along on both the new transfer from launcher feature as well as new hardware setups. Hopefully in a week or two we can post more details on the new server transfer features such as the multiple character moves, the guild disband and re-formation and naming conflict changes.

For now I will say we have at least a couple more months before all of this gets underway. I wanted to get the transfers started towards the closer end of that, but then based on feedback and research into performance concerns, have decided to wait until we have our new hardware in place so as not to cause undue stress on already highly populated worlds. Due to snow and some other set backs we do not expect new hardware to be online until summer. Thus the timeline is pushed back a bit.

For those concerned about notice for server closures. We will be providing at least a couple months notice for players on which servers might close before that happens. We have lots of time and will make sure you have all the information you need to prepare before anything happens.

-Vyvyanne


 

that is the latest.

 

i'll only comment on the timeline being pushed back a bit...  causes me mild concern.  seems to be off by an entire quarter.  which leaves me with the question, how will this effect the tail end of the process, because i would assume that lost time will be recouped somewhere.

 

additionally, are they planning on transferring all 15 North American servers (+Brandywine) and all 14 EU servers to the 2 new locations?  or just the ones they intend to keep?

 

perhaps they have more wiggle room on the Boston end with the existing set up?

 

regardless, their plates do seem utterly crammed.

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Vyvyanne   Tue.  March 3, 2015   12:46 PM
Executive Producer

 

U16 will indeed happen before any transfer changes. In fact this is one of the reasons we have had little to talk about. With the pushing out of hardware updates, I have had engineers refocus on helping complete U16 initiatives like the Legendary Items Upgrades and come back to transfer improvements once that is locked in. But more to come on that soon as we start ramping up U16 testing and telling you all about it.

Sadly it does not look like EU <-> US Transfers will be possible. You can always start a new character on any world you wish to play on, regardless of region, but we will not be able to support moving an already created character from an EU database to US and vice versa.


 

...  "With the pushing out of hardware updates" ...

 

and this after Frelorn said a few days earlier:

 

"yes the snow did not help, but it will not have a significant impact on when the work is finished."

 

so i am truly perplexed by the shifting schedule, as this pushing out is a time frame well beyond delays due to weather.  what are these "other setbacks" i wonder?

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Vyvyanne   Tue.  March 3, 2015   12:46 PM

Executive Producer

 

U16 will indeed happen before any transfer changes. In fact this is one of the reasons we have had little to talk about. With the pushing out of hardware updates, I have had engineers refocus on helping complete U16 initiatives like the Legendary Items Upgrades and come back to transfer improvements once that is locked in. But more to come on that soon as we start ramping up U16 testing and telling you all about it.

Sadly it does not look like EU <-> US Transfers will be possible. You can always start a new character on any world you wish to play on, regardless of region, but we will not be able to support moving an already created character from an EU database to US and vice versa.


 

...  "With the pushing out of hardware updates" ...

 

and this after Frelorn said a few days earlier:

 

"yes the snow did not help, but it will not have a significant impact on when the work is finished."

 

so i am truly perplexed by the shifting schedule, as this pushing out is a time frame well beyond delays due to weather.  what are these "other setbacks" i wonder?

 

People getting pulled onto other projects?  Budgets cuts?  Hardware/hosting contract snafus?  Communication issues causing some people to be working off one set of assumptions and other people working off a completely different set of assumptions?

 

Could be anything, really.  I'd love to know, too.

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To me this smells like they really don't have the engineering capacity to cut through all the hair involved safely.

Neither for the transfers, nor for hardware move (and not to speak of US-EU transfers).

Chances are that by now they turned into one of those shops that has a bunch of computers running and the only maintenance procedure left in certain knowledge is how to press the reset button when thingie is acting up. Moving all the relevant software piece and bringing up a working stack can turn into a major challenge under those conditions. Most systems in that state have a whole bunch of one-off extra detail services running somwhere doing some magic that nobody who is left knows anything about. (the lottery and external character data feeds are an example)

The only good sign is that they seem to realize that they are in that position, as opposed to trying and failing with 7 days downtime and then a 3 month character/world rollback when people are back online on the old hardware.

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I'm rather glad that they won't be able to make the cross-continent transfers, because of what we have already seen in the past, when the "door" was left wide open for a time as a result of the EU migration (You had read it here first at lotrocommunity.com; you are welcome.).  If Turbine doesn't open any new doors that have the capacity for being left open/forgotten, it will be more secure for everyone, in my opinion.

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To me this smells like they really don't have the engineering capacity to cut through all the hair involved safely.

that does sound like quite "The Situation":

pauly-d-michael-cera-guido-hair.jpg

 

joking aside, it could be any number of reasons.

 

i am just surprised whatever agreements involved (& associated budgets) for the new Amsterdam host & the new North American location are flexible enough to accommodate that significant time shift.

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Vyvyanne     Monday, Mar. 2  2015   05:34 PM

Executive Produce

 

[...]

I wanted to get the transfers started towards the closer end of that, but then based on feedback and research into performance concerns, have decided to wait until we have our new hardware in place so as not to cause undue stress on already highly populated worlds.

[...]

 

Uh-huh. Based on feedback, eh? Popular player-feedback, too, I reckon? Why does that sound familiar?

 

Also, highly populated worlds? Those exist with the game? Really?

 

SNy

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