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Amenhir

Lotro PvPers...are they really that bad?

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Turbine did a nice job making Lotro's first areas, and they did an amazing job with the design of Moria (IMO), despite some issues and bugs. The quests and world were great the first few years. How cool are the unique classes and fellowship maneuvers?

 

Then they ruined the game, chasing after dollars in ways they made the game much worse. Then they defunded it and made gimmicks like BB in order to hype up and sell expansions. In recent years they did a terrible job with the game. I only have praise for the creators of the initial game and Moria, although I am sure there were some nice parts later on, amidst all the badly made, cheap content they put out. This is not a company that cares for players now - it only cared for profit in the last few years of the game. Profit at the expense of gameplay.

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That's something I definetly believe all of us players should bear in mind, that however disappointing it turned out, the very existence of the game in the first place was no sure thing. A more sober-minded and less plucky company would have looked at the resources on hand and the projects already in production and passed on even trying LOTRO. And even if the IP had ended up in someone else's hands, there was no guarantee that it would have been finished or even half as lovingly crafted as SoA was.

 

That's almost the worst part.  That there was so much care put into it at launch, and then it was maintained so carelessly.  If the game had been crap from the start, as I and I'm sure alot of people expected, given the crap LOTR games that were out at the time (BFME notwithstanding, but even that was pretty limited), it wouldn't have been so bad to see it become what it is now.

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Turbine did a nice job making Lotro's first areas, and they did an amazing job with the design of Moria (IMO), despite some issues and bugs. The quests and world were great the first few years. How cool are the unique classes and fellowship maneuvers?

 

Then they ruined the game, chasing after dollars in ways they made the game much worse. Then they defunded it and made gimmicks like BB in order to hype up and sell expansions. In recent years they did a terrible job with the game. I only have praise for the creators of the initial game and Moria, although I am sure there were some nice parts later on, amidst all the badly made, cheap content they put out. This is not a company that cares for players now - it only cared for profit in the last few years of the game. Profit at the expense of gameplay.

 

I agree. I still think they do a fantatic job designing areas. I loved the Shire, but think it should've been twice the size and not have had any mobs within it. I was so disappointed that the Brandywine Bridge was so close to Hobbiton. It felt wrong.

 

Moria is one of my biggest bugbears with LOTRO. I think as an underground dwarven city, it is fantasic. But Moria? No. It does not match the Moria from the books in my opinion. When I first started playing, Moria was a destination goal-milestone for me; I wanted to reach it and felt that by reaching it, it would give me a sense of achievement. When I got there I can not describe how disappointed I was with its design. That underground city is not Moria.

 

For me it was, and still is, too light, and in places such as the flaming deeps, too fantasy-like.

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Moria is one of my biggest bugbears with LOTRO. I think as an underground dwarven city, it is fantasic. But Moria? No. It does not match the Moria from the books in my opinion. 

 

I just think it is a cool dungeon - I don't feel like any of Lotro is like Middle Earth. I never felt for a second I was in Tolkien's worlds with Lotro. But I like the crazy paths of Moria, and liked it long ago when I could push into areas a few levels higher than my character and it was not easy.

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But I loved Moria! D:

....Okay, that's very much in retrospect and glossing over those times I kept cussing under my breath because I couldn't figure out how to get to the top of a ledge for a quest or didn't remember the stable name somewhere or simply got lost among its many tunnels while being cornered by a herd of goblins.

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I loved Moria too!  Never did figure out how to navigate though, just derped my way through.

 

I got there before any revamps, and I remember every  time I got close to that one camp (Dwalin's camp? it was full of gredbyg and you had to run up several passages full of mobs that would attack you, not just look at you like they do now) anyway -  my bags would all fill up just before I got there.

 

Every. Stinking. Time.

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I remember reaching 21st Hall and going "ooooooh" and immediately swiveling my camera straight up to see the endless dark above the huge pillars. That was cool, and felt more "Dorfy Moria" than other parts certainly. This was before the revamps; the revamp hit my alt and leveling partner towards the end of our second Moria run. Everything got very bright. :/

One thing I really liked in Lotro was the personal lantern toggle, though an actual graphic would've been cool.

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That's something I definetly believe all of us players should bear in mind, that however disappointing it turned out, the very existence of the game in the first place was no sure thing. A more sober-minded and less plucky company would have looked at the resources on hand and the projects already in production and passed on even trying LOTRO. And even if the IP had ended up in someone else's hands, there was no guarantee that it would have been finished or even half as lovingly crafted as SoA was.

 

I don't think many of us have forgotten however that was a different Turbine top to bottom,  with the way Turbine had to play musical chairs among products most of the creation team (I assume) got siphoned off to other products, then layoffs, WB, deal, more lay offs, musical chair ED's.   Is it any wonder we look at modern Turbone much different than the one that created  AC and LOTRO?

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I have a question for the alusive Aylwen: will he respond to his messages or is he purposefully avoiding me?

 

Evil, are you still trying to get attention?

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I just think it is a cool dungeon - I don't feel like any of Lotro is like Middle Earth. I never felt for a second I was in Tolkien's worlds with Lotro. But I like the crazy paths of Moria, and liked it long ago when I could push into areas a few levels higher than my character and it was not easy.

 

 

I loved Moria too!  Never did figure out how to navigate though, just derped my way through.

 

I got there before any revamps, and I remember every  time I got close to that one camp (Dwalin's camp? it was full of gredbyg and you had to run up several passages full of mobs that would attack you, not just look at you like they do now) anyway -  my bags would all fill up just before I got there.

 

Every. Stinking. Time.

 

 

I remember reaching 21st Hall and going "ooooooh" and immediately swiveling my camera straight up to see the endless dark above the huge pillars. That was cool, and felt more "Dorfy Moria" than other parts certainly. This was before the revamps; the revamp hit my alt and leveling partner towards the end of our second Moria run. Everything got very bright. :/

One thing I really liked in Lotro was the personal lantern toggle, though an actual graphic would've been cool.

 

I love/d the area too and think its design was genius as a fantasy dwarven city. I think the 21st Hall matches the book and, was for me too, a wow moment. I just didn't think many of other areas felt like Moria and, for me, were too fantasy-like such as the Flaming Deeps, Redhorn Lodes, Nud Melek and Foundations of Stone.

 

I wanted more darkness and vast empty uninhabited spaces with holes and sheer drops everywhere. I wanted more dwarf house areas, more mines, and I suppose more of a sense that tunnels had been carved out of the stone instead of most places being huge caverns.

 

I thought The Waterworks was a fantastic concept, but again, for me, it didn't feel like Moria. I kind of imagined that there were pools and vast lakes in the lower depths of Moria that were safe to drink which had wells above them. And that the areas that were on fire were just on fire and not full of lava pools.

 

Wouldn't it've been great if Moria was so dark you actually had use your personal lamp to be able to see?

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Wouldn't it've been great if Moria was so dark you actually had use your personal lamp to be able to see?

People wouldn't have stood for it.  I was amazed in years after how people said they HATED Moria and couldn't wait to get their alts through it and out into the open air again.  Something about too long in caves, I suppose.  You said this though and it made me think of old Everquest when it launched.  Unless you were a race that had infravision, you had a hard time seeing more than 10 feet away at night time.  You had to equip a burned out lightstone looted from a wisp to be able to see a bit further, but night time then was a dark time.  

 

Thinking on it further, I don't think all of Moria could be that dark.  But some places being that dark would definitely have added some 'haunt' and 'fear' to the place.

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I think the problem with Moria was that, whilst the region was amazing, it was also a long time until we got SoM so people were getting a bit fed up with it.

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People wouldn't have stood for it.  I was amazed in years after how people said they HATED Moria and couldn't wait to get their alts through it and out into the open air again.  Something about too long in caves, I suppose.  You said this though and it made me think of old Everquest when it launched.  Unless you were a race that had infravision, you had a hard time seeing more than 10 feet away at night time.  You had to equip a burned out lightstone looted from a wisp to be able to see a bit further, but night time then was a dark time.  

 

Thinking on it further, I don't think all of Moria could be that dark.  But some places being that dark would definitely have added some 'haunt' and 'fear' to the place.

To be honest, I think the case of Moria's "quality of life" issues (subjectively) are closer to the situation of book-vs-film compromises--some things aren't going to translate well to an MMO gaming experience, especially if you expect players to spend lots of time in an underground place like Moria (Laurinaohtar's comment certainly makes sense there). Making Moria so dark that the personal torch would be required to see two yards in any direction would have made Moria a failure as an MMO zone since it was difficult to navigate already. So I understand the revamp to some extent, as Moria and Angmar both got a fair share of complaints and were no longer end-game/instance farms, but eh.

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There's something about Moria I miss, the creaking ambience, the massive doors, winding corridors. It was a little hit or miss for me; I loved the Great Delving, not so much Flaming Deeps or Water Works. But I'm not sure that there's ever been as immediate a gathering place as the 21st hall: you could log on and see just about anyone hovering around the torch waymarker.

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There's something about Moria I miss, the creaking ambience, the massive doors, winding corridors. It was a little hit or miss for me; I loved the Great Delving, not so much Flaming Deeps or Water Works. But I'm not sure that there's ever been as immediate a gathering place as the 21st hall: you could log on and see just about anyone hovering around the torch waymarker.

That was mostly out of necessity, though. Having so many conveniences within easy reach and a stablemaster with decent connections, it just made it a no-brainer. But I do remember the excitement people had at hearing how Galtrev was going to be the new hub, simply because they were sick of being underground for so long... but they didn't reckon for the annoyance of Lagtrev.

Though I did like Moria at the time. Turbine never really matched it, especially in instances.

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I just think it is a cool dungeon - I don't feel like any of Lotro is like Middle Earth.

For my own part, the Elven architecture-the platforms, the gleam and elegance of it-was very close to what I had imagined as a child reading the books for the first time. Somehow the North Downs always very felt Middle Earth like to me though I can't really define how. The rich blue skies of Belfalas (sp) were very evocative as well, I thought, of a younger world.

That was mostly out of necessity, though. Having so many conveniences within easy reach and a stablemaster with decent connections, it just made it a no-brainer.

Quite true. But I liked (I guess as an old tabletop nerd) the dungeon crawling atmosphere. I loved gathering outside GS and then porting with everyone back to 21st to bank/turn in the spoils, felt like old school RPG fun.

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I think the Shire felt the most "Middle-Earthy" to me. Bree-Land too, especially the wide expanses and hidden, unpopulated areas (and Old Forest), such a comparatively big zone. Lothlorien was memorable.

Oooh, Old Forest. Before it was nerfed. So scary.

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Quite true. But I liked (I guess as an old tabletop nerd) the dungeon crawling atmosphere. I loved gathering outside GS and then porting with everyone back to 21st to bank/turn in the spoils, felt like old school RPG fun.

yes

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That was mostly out of necessity, though. Having so many conveniences within easy reach and a stablemaster with decent connections, it just made it a no-brainer. But I do remember the excitement people had at hearing how Galtrev was going to be the new hub, simply because they were sick of being underground for so long... but they didn't reckon for the annoyance of Lagtrev.

That was an aesthetic issue for me.  Even though Galtrev 'had it all' for hub purposes, it was an ugly, historically insignificant place.  21st Hall was great.  I guess my problem is similar to the flow of the game in general.  We spent too much time after Mirkwood/Lorien doing stuff in Enedwaith and Dunland.  Should have been in Rohan and Gondor sooner.

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Everytime I return to the 21st hall now it seems really strange to see it so empty.

 

Quite true. But I liked (I guess as an old tabletop nerd) the dungeon crawling atmosphere. I loved gathering outside GS and then porting with everyone back to 21st to bank/turn in the spoils, felt like old school RPG fun.

This.

Thats actually a good question for you Aylwen, honestly what was so inconvenient about having to travel to the entrance of dungeons and whose bright idea was it to get rid of that? There was something unique about having to do this that made sense and it was a shame when we lost it.

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I think the Shire felt the most "Middle-Earthy" to me. Bree-Land too, especially the wide expanses and hidden, unpopulated areas (and Old Forest), such a comparatively big zone. Lothlorien was memorable.

Oooh, Old Forest. Before it was nerfed. So scary.

 

Yes, definitely. Although I wish The Shire was bigger in game and had no mobs, I think it is a masterpiece. The ambience of the place ... I don't know, I just can't put it into words. Its just so peaceful and calm. Homely. It reminds me a bit of my childhood. The thought of not being able to visit The Shire when the game eventually shuts down is not a pleasant one for me. I often log in and just park my character at the pool at Bywater for a few minutes or so. It's so calming.

 

 

For my own part, the Elven architecture-the platforms, the gleam and elegance of it-was very close to what I had imagined as a child reading the books for the first time. Somehow the North Downs always very felt Middle Earth like to me though I can't really define how. The rich blue skies of Belfalas (sp) were very evocative as well, I thought, of a younger world.

 

 

I know what you mean about the North Downs, yeah. It just has the feel of Middle-earth. I know Trestlebridge is a creation of Turbine, but I felt it fitted so well.

 

I especially like Evendim. I think you really get a feel for the heritage of the Númenóreans, a race that has withered away, their best days behind them. I also think the Annuminas quests with the ranger npc helper (can't remember his name) are some of the best in the game.

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