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Amenhir

Lotro PvPers...are they really that bad?

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lol I'll hop in.  My take.  As a company/product who's market share is...less than ideal...what's a better source of feedback?  Someone whos paying already and arguably at least somewhat content with current systems/implementation, at least to the point they are willing to pay for it.  Or conversely someone who is unwilling to buy in currently and therefore a potential indicator of a marketable demographic?  By creating an echo chamber of only those somewhat satisfied(at least to a degree varying between individuals) doesn't that preclude market share growth?  Discuss

 

EDIT of course this implies the PC is worth more than wet toilet paper as a source of feedback.  In some respects that echo chamber effect inho has a lot to do with SOM, the cap removal, Hytbolt/Wildermore. and class revamps.  Or hell moving to a gear/level progression thinking they would grab WoW players with 1/10 the resources 1/3 team size and 1/2 the time for the same price point.  While not considering that accelerates the atrophy of existing content*requiring even more resources to replace outdated/leveled/geared content.  Along with diminishing resources it allowed them to create a false narrative internally that face planted when it hit reality, much like IC.  They were chasing a demographic that doesn't actually exist, or one that was already adequately served by existing products.  If the PC concept had ever been intended to address that long standing problem within Turbine(which I doubt, it was a PR stunt imho) it has to date failed horribly.  It's an even bigger echo chamber now than it ever was, and their market performance reflects that.   Know your product know your market.

Edited by Bendin

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that dude saying he was on the (PVMP) Player Council, and as such it would make sense for him to have to be subscribed to "reliably" play all aspects of that game mode?  Especially when giving it came to giving current feedback to the powers that be?

You don't have to be a subscriber to play creepside. I could make the same argument that non-raiders shouldn't be invited to the regular player council since they don't play all aspects of PvE. Same with people that play music, dabble in housing, etc. I would gladly take an expert on creepside over someone who rarely plays PvP in this game, even though they are a subscriber.

I suspect that the reason he was kicked off was that it was a convenient excuse to silence someone who criticized the game.

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You don't have to be a subscriber to play creepside. I could make the same argument that non-raiders shouldn't be invited to the regular player council since they don't play all aspects of PvE. Same with people that play music, dabble in housing, etc. I would gladly take an expert on creepside over someone who rarely plays PvP in this game, even though they are a subscriber.

I suspect that the reason he was kicked off was that it was a convenient excuse to silence someone who criticized the game.

I remember starting a creep as a non vip.  A black arrow or what ever it's called.  Although I would never claim to be an expert.  And my creep experience maybe lasted 1 hour. 

Allow me to reintroduce this again.  Lotro is a F2P with optional Subscription.  To play the game you don't need to be a subscriber.  You can actually buy the content via the store and never need VIP.  That doesn't make your opinion on the game mean less. 

All that said, that council is a total joke.  You want me to take something that includes Thecrossbow, Sabriel, Frickinmuck and the other forum trolls seriously?  You must be joking.  If you're going to give players the special snowflake title and let them represent the overall playerbase at least do minimum fact checking.  At least go back a single day in the forum history to do so.  

In Turbines defense some great players have been chosen for the task of giving them feedback on their game and it seems all of those folks came back here and expressed their disgust with it and Turbine as a company.   It would be telling if we could find out how many players from the 2013 and 2014 PC that are still playing and enjoying it. 

If a developing studio is really looking for feedback on their game why give out the list of players names on their public forum?!

 

 

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It would be telling if we could find out how many players from the 2013 and 2014 PC that are still playing and enjoying it. 

If a developing studio is really looking for feedback on their game why give out the list of players names on their public forum?!

2013 member here. Was mostly on autopilot the last year but pretty much gave up over the past few months. I've logged in recently to handle kinship handoff but that's about it.

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Time to chime in. I have been playing freep and creep since the first open beta. Leaving SWG for LOTRO back then. I retired from freep play in 2008 and took a break in creep play for many years only to return early this year. I learned the creep community is still a small, tight and friendly bunch who need to work together to deal with the freeps. My contribution is about pmvp only. Because the pmvp part is unique and in the beginning cleverly crafted. For instance: The second pmvp map, Osgilliath, is clearly a failure, it was abandonded only 1 week after the release. It shows how well thought the original dev's created the Moors. With a founders sub I never had an issue with F2P but I seriously hope they leave the Moore alone. To my it is the only part of the game which is still of interest. 

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It doesn't appear to be a rumor. :'C From Nutty's Facebook page there's some posts regarding his passing which occurred about a week ago.

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If true, it's a sad thing. Of the Turbine people that have interacted with LOTRO players, his act was the most classy, I think, next to that of Patience.

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So, I just spent the better half of my morning reading through this post, linked from another website.

I've played LOTRO in intense, passionate bursts since late 2008 (around the time MoM launched, so I only received glimpses of the Shadows of Angmar days).  

I was hoping to have some questions to bring to Alywen...

Are the news really true? Not the way I expected this thread to end.

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To me and in retrospect, his "tell-all" seemed a way to make things right before he passed, which I respect.  This ought to put his former associates to shame.

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Terrible news.   No one else had the balls to engage us like he did.  He answered every question I posed to him.  Even the tough ones.  I am deeply saddened to here this.  He was a great guy judging from his interaction here on this forum.  Turbine didn't deserve to have him.

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I'm a little bit in shock.  Like many, I suppose.  Aylwen did come across as an exceptional individual.  In both public and private discussions he was unfailingly positive and enthusiastic.  I think many of us felt something of a kinship with him based on his love of the game and his open communication.  As was said before, this was not how I expected this thread to end.

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On 3/10/2015 at 8:06 PM, Aylwen said:

And no prob, I've been laid up for a while and talking with ya'll about LOTRO is a lot of fun. It kind of reminds me of logging on, seeing who's online, what's happening in the Moors, who's hanging out in the AH...that part I especially miss from the old days.

Remarkable.  This thread has easily been the most interesting thing I've ever read on the internet.  As a player that has spent countless hours and approaching a decade of use of LOTRO, I found Aylwen's insider explanations fascinating - surprisingly so and no detail was too small to be of interest.  As a technology attorney, I found GameDev's (who seems likely to be Zombie Columbus) identification of points that WB Games Legal would consider breach of NDA to be probably correct. 

I expected to finish this thread and find that Aylwen was no longer posting because of threat of litigation.  Never in a million years would I have expected things to resolve in the tragic manner they have.  And regardless of what I expected, I hoped that Aylwen would still be teaching us about the inner workings of Turbine and LOTRO.  I wanted to ask about the dwarves in the Rotting Cellar inspecting a waterwheel that looks suspiciously like the Turbine logo and concluding that they have no idea how to fix it.  I wanted to ask so many things.  But mostly, I wanted to thank him for his measured candor and unprecedented openess regarding a rather opaque industry.

If his family or friends happen to see this, I'm sorry for your loss. 

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