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Lotro PvPers...are they really that bad?


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The also lost the incentive under a sub model to make the game fun and good overall (so people would sub). After F2P, they tried to make changes that would get people to spend in the store - not changes that were good for the game experience. They lost the motivation to make this a game people would choose over other MMOs and pay a monthly sub for.

 

I feel like they just couldn't be bothered to fix the loot system, and the small team working on Lotro didn't have any time after doing things like Big Battles and a few new zones.

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It's entirely up to the companies to decide how to interpret the NDA in relation to my comments. If they want to 'come after me', as you put it, they know who I am. I do appreciate your concern on t

Modbreak: Dear GameDev, Please refrain from posting personal information on this board. Given your geolocation, it might be perceived as a rather vengeful thing. Say hi to the rest of Turbine

I agree with this on a personal level. First post here although I consider this forum superior to the official one (where most of my posts over the years were confined to grants on rank x threads)

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Aylwen, there is currently some chatter about the Russian LOTRO servers. They used to receive updates with some delay, but now it seems the whole 'connection' with Turbine is lost. Do you think the support for their (2 or 3?) servers will seize?

What's your take on the Russian LOTRO and how would you compare it with the Chinese and the Japanese/Korean projects that either closed or didn't reach live at all?

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LOL!


 Apparently the Chinese didn't like our terms because eventually we got a call from our guys where they basically said, 'we're kind of trapped in their building and they won't let us leave until we agree to their conditions'. Turbine really was out of its depth trying to do business in that place. 

The Mao-th of Sauron?


Yeh, Gandalf, we told him he could keep the mithril shirt and he still won't let us leave the Black Gate.  What now?

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LOL!

The Mao-th of Sauron?

Yeh, Gandalf, we told him he could keep the mithril shirt and he still won't let us leave the Black Gate. What now?

Poor naive Turbine: we were doing business exactly the wrong way in mainland China. Instead of bribing them, we were expecting them to pay us...ha! You can imagine how that worked out for us.

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Interesting stuff all that.

 

I am not surprised that RU Lotro operators ignored your demands of not using PVPM outside of Ettenmoors.  Open PVP in games are popular in Russia / former USSR region.  Actually I think that might be market that has most open to this sort of gameplay population in whole world. 

So when RU found out that Turbine developed something like that for Chinese and then refused to allow them to use it  Well no surprise they ignored Turbine complaints:)

 

 

As for Codemasters - it's interesting to hear that they were giving you pain in arse.  I can say that from my player point of view - they were really providing very good service - superior to Turbine as I've found out when EU service was migrated to Turbine and I've played there for few months. 

 

GM, ticket respnse time, enforcing RP server rules, EU servers being in EU, Codemasters providing free rename tokens after forced name change on RP server (Turbine charged for it) and few other things   - all those was simply better in Codemasters.

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Interesting, thanks for the info.

What about the Japanese and/or Korean servers, do you remember anything about those?

Not much other than hearing they had bombed. By the spring of 09 they stopped coming up in conversation and I never heard a word about them again.

Re: Codemasters, as a player I always envied my EU counterparts since it was plainly obvious that CM was much more engaged with their community than Turbine was. For a small cost Turbine could have exponentially enhanced the player experience with more events and interactions but for all practical purposes the company dug a moat around itself and posted sentries on the walls.

But as an employee CM could indeed be a pain as most of what I saw from them in my own neck of the woods were unconstructive rants passed off as bugs, snarky comments, and a general lack of anything approaching professionalism. That this confrontational attitude was the case well up the food chain was evidenced by the company's ardent desire to be rid of its CM connections as soon as was practicable. We chalked some of their attitude up to their Englishness: as Brits they held a certain proprietary posture on Tolkien and damn these bloody cheeseburger munching Yanks for mucking up Middle Earth. Was that really fair to assume? Maybe, maybe not. But regardless we weren't the only company from what I understood generally to have a rocky relationship with CM.

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I always found it hilarious that CM could restore characters for free in an eyeblink while Turbine kept saying "Nope.  Can't do it." and then came back later saying they "found a way" and then put ridiculous limits on it.

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That reminds me.  Hey Aylwen, back in October '11 we were the first to report on what had come to be known here as "the breach," where a "white hat" by the name of freundlich had discovered and confirmed that forum security at lotro.com was a sieve and that a breach had occurred that made vulnerable the username/password data of players.  Since this happened after the username/password combos were unified between the account and forum logins, that made a large amount of account theft possible.

 

From the inside, what was the observation that you and those working at Turbine had concerning that situation?  Here's the link to the topic for reference (Sorry, it's a long one, for obvious reasons.).  Thanks in advance.

 

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The forum breach went down around the time I returned to Turbine. We were mostly just told to change our passwords and officially there wasn't much open discussion of the matter, perhaps unsurprisingly. I did learn, off board, that at least one officer was compromised as, incredibly, his computer, work email, log ins, etc, all shared the same pw/login data. We couldn't be certain if this stemmed from the forum breach but it would have been a hell of a coincidence. But in any event the '11 breach appeared to have been less problematic then the spring '10 compromise that did see a slew of accounts hacked. Hard to really beat on Turbine for this, however. Even with all Blizzard's billions, their security is laughable.

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 Turbine-being utterly neurotic on the subject of Creeps outside the Moors 

 

yeah this is true. New out of bounds explorers will find that it's trivial to get to the bounds of the ettenmoors through the lone lands. The first defense is an entire armada of invisible walls, around the entire zone, that prevents you from hoping to get close.

 

Second defense is a kill wall that only people from within the etts trying to escape will run into.

 

And as Aylwen said before, the final defense is a system rigged to teleport creeps back to Grams if they, by the grace of god, get past that. Much like the system that teleports freeps back to the starter zone if they enter the promised lands of milk & honey (FixMe).

 

I mean....it makes more sense just to let them run free in Evendim once in a while...instead of wasting so much time wrapping the whole zone in walls.

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Hard to really beat on Turbine for this, however.

 

Try telling that to all the players that had their account info laid bare and were more-or-less told by Turbine that it was their fault.

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 Hard to really beat on Turbine for this, however. Even with all Blizzard's billions, their security is laughable.

 

You should always beat on any company, be it Turbine, Trion, Blizzard, Sony or whoever that store any personal information and have laughable security.

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You should always beat on any company, be it Turbine, Trion, Blizzard, Sony or whoever that store any personal information and have laughable security.

Maybe so. I'm just a realist at this point when it comes to online data. The Pentagon and McDonnell Douglas can't keep hackers out of their databases; I don't have much faith in an MMO company being the Rock of Gibraltar.

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Hard to really beat on Turbine for this, however. Even with all Blizzard's billions, their security is laughable.

I remember when my account got hacked and cleaned out.  It was pretty frustrating.  They compensated me for my loss, but it didn't begin to cover it all and some of the unique items I had in my vault and house were unrecoverable.  Less than a month later, they somehow came out with the 'full reimbursement' policy and returned every single item to players. Do breaks in security happen?  Yeh.  Was Turbine a bit slow in addressing an adequate fix for the issue (i.e., full restoration)? I believe so.  If Turbine was a Piñata,  I'd have taken a few hacks at the time.

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Aylwen

 

Thanks for taking the time to reach out to everyone and divulge some interesting things regarding LOTRO. I understand PvMP and the whole debacle that was. As a developer for software (now retired) I could tell that the monster players were a cut n' paste job big time. All the hallmarks were there, to say the least. 

 

At any rate, now that you have shed light on innumerable things, I have one question: Why in the heck are we not seeing any more raids? I know there are the big battles, but that system was a washout, in mine and others opinions. Also it seems that a little under 2 years are left for the license, and WB Games/Turbine are suddenly realizing the need to rush to Mordor more than ever (which should have happened 3 or more years ago - ex: Mines of Moria should have been an epic chain quest, not an expansion). 

What is your take on these things?

 

 

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I think BBs were intended to supersede traditional raids for logistical reasons. With the limited manpower (and the revolving door of talent at the company) I imagine they decided to basically upgrade the skirmish system to create 'raid-like' content that could, moving forward, be created with a reduced price-tag while at the same time, through being scaled, reach a greater potential number of players. On paper that isn't a bad plan. In practice however the results have been underwhelming to say the least.

I would not have believed, in April of 2007, that exactly 8 years later we would only now be approaching Minis Tirith. Moria as an expansion was a debatable decision (I do love that space) but Mirkwood was definitely an unnecessary sidetrack into left field. When I asked why we were wandering off the beaten path I was told that since the resources didn't exist just then to do Isen or Rohan justice, Mirk was a compromise. I wondered just when the resources would exist. Given that just in SoA Turbine had provided practically half an expansion as free updates, SoM seemed particularly weak. Then, crucially, we lost a year of forward progress with the f2p/WB transition and followed up with the three Isen/Rohan expansions and of those only RoR was really noteworthy in my opinion. I'd say we were at least two years behind where we should have been.

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I don't know how they could think they could not do Isengard as an expansion at that time. The Isengard they eventually produced with regards to story and landscape content, is in my opinion, awful. 

 

No one wanted to spend an extended period of time in Dunland. No one was interested in the Dunlendings, yet they rammed them down our throats. Out of all the expacs, to me, it was the most unLOR like and a complete waste of resources, Dunland should've been a simple update and Isengard itself should've been part of the first Rohan expansion. 

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Yeh, Enedwaith and Isengard were terribly uninspiring material (though my life would be the poorer if we had not been given the famous 'Isengard Bids Five' scene).  People seemed to like the instance cluster of OD and I liked Isengard's raid.  But for exploration and story advancement....yikes.  I liked Mirkwood, even if it was a little 'off track' for the story.  If we'd followed the story down the Anduin to Northern Gondor and Rohan directly, I think it would have been better.  This, like so many other decisions made by Turbine, seem so misguided.  Dunland...of all the places to make us spend so much time.... Dunland... not even in the top 10 of most anybody's 'places I have to explore in Middle Earth', I would wager. If you had to take a detour, Erebor, north Mirkwood, Fangorn, land of the Beornings, and others all would have been more inspiring.

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Yeh, Enedwaith and Isengard were terribly uninspiring material (though my life would be the poorer if we had not been given the famous 'Isengard Bids Five' scene).  People seemed to like the instance cluster of OD and I liked Isengard's raid.  But for exploration and story advancement....yikes.  I liked Mirkwood, even if it was a little 'off track' for the story.  If we'd followed the story down the Anduin to Northern Gondor and Rohan directly, I think it would have been better.  This, like so many other decisions made by Turbine, seem so misguided.  Dunland...of all the places to make us spend so much time.... Dunland... not even in the top 10 of most anybody's 'places I have to explore in Middle Earth', I would wager. If you had to take a detour, Erebor, north Mirkwood, Fangorn, land of the Beornings, and others all would have been more inspiring.

 

If they had not produced Mirkwood, they could've done what the fellowship did; have us sail in a boat down to the Argonath from Lothlorien, thus negating the need to add Dunland and most of the area around Isengard until later. 

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