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Lotro PvPers...are they really that bad?


Amenhir
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In MoM, the max Virtue rank was 12. If you are talking about primary stats (which were the ones with caps), that was +36 points. +36 points in a primary stat was 1-2% damage bonus, at best. The change in maximum virtue between SoA and MoM corresponds to only +6 in primary stats, so again, totally meaningless (although a number of virtues couldn't be maxed in SoA, so in some cases it might have been a few points more). It may have made you feel good, but it could not have noticeably improved your character's performance.There were some virtues which (I forget when they were changed, Moria or SoM) were somewhat better. The ones with mitigation or morale could have a more noticeable effect.

That balrog was tough, really tough at 50. That extra 1 or 2% multiplied across your raid would have been key in making many rift encounters easier.

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I am kind of wondering if you folks were playing the same game I was back in MoM/SoM, back when (according to some here) "stats still meant something". We were running raids to get gear with +2 stat point upgrades, which, I'm sorry, were completely irrelevant. Stats meant nothing.

I was very active in theory-crafting and trying to figure out game systems back in the day; as proof of which, I point to my hilariously outdated guide ("Tactical Damage Mechanics in SoM") which, incredibly, is STILL at the top of the stickies in the LM official forums. I also did spreadsheets on Warden defensive stat optimization around the same time.

The point being, as far as stats there was no progression of character performance whatsoever. Stats were entirely cosmetic. At the time of that post, it took 260 Tactical Offense Rating = +26 points of Will to get a +1% of base damage buff (which in practice was considerably less than +1% of total damage).

The stat budget for a whole expansion then was something like 50 points of your primary stat (it couldn't be more than that, since the cap only went up by 10 points per level, so +5 levels = +50 points = +500 Tactical Offense = < +2% stat effect on damage).

They concealed the futility of trying to increase your stats somewhat by making LI damage scale rapidly with level, and sometimes jiggering the spell coefficients themselves (in SoM, for instance, a number of LM damage spells just became innately better, even with the same stats - I remember riding around Mirkwood the day I got into beta, and laughing my ass off at 1.5K Burning Embers crits...).

In MoM, the max Virtue rank was 12. If you are talking about primary stats (which were the ones with caps), that was +36 points. +36 points in a primary stat was 1-2% damage bonus, at best. The change in maximum virtue between SoA and MoM corresponds to only +6 in primary stats, so again, totally meaningless (although a number of virtues couldn't be maxed in SoA, so in some cases it might have been a few points more). It may have made you feel good, but it could not have noticeably improved your character's performance.

There were some virtues which (I forget when they were changed, Moria or SoM) were somewhat better. The ones with mitigation or morale could have a more noticeable effect.

 

That is exactly why Lotro system >  WoW and WoW-like power creep.

 

Lotro like you said yourself had only tiny stat diffrences between i..e crafting set, dungeon set and raid set respetively.   Let's take example of 65 lvl cap,   It was easy to gear yourself to be able to run all game content.   Diffrence in character power was only visible in practical terms once you compared i.e. character in purple + moria set and so-so other gear and virtues vs character in DN/BG set, maxed dungeon gear (jewels, etc) and maxed virtues.

And even then diffrence was not big.

 

That was GREAT.

 

For one thing it allowed various type of players to play together. 

Those who spent less time in game and those who spent more could play together in almost every content.

Those who had altitis and those who played one character could play together in every content.

Those who min-maxed and those who did not could play together.

and so on.

 

Another thing it made - it reduced overgearing of content making it trivial  (and that is precisely why upping 60 to 65 in SoM was HUGE mistake imho, SoM should be 60 too) and it increased reliance of some type of skill rather than on overgearning / power creeping.

 

Again  - those small/tiny stat diffrences, small power creep is one of things that made Lotro good.

 

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Yeah, but then again the Beorning as a whole was a bad idea :P

 

 

gotta make $$$ off the hobbit movies

 

Has a developer ever introduced a feature as a gesture of contempt toward the players? Maybe Turbine hired the guy who replaced the toolbar with the ribbon in Microsoft Office.

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LotRO is selling U16 very hard as "hard!" Anyone test this in palantir or BR to confirm?

 

Consider the playerbase. For most of the casuals who sometimes feel sammy can be hard ... T2cm will be impossible. 

The hardest for me personally was the 6 man. The two 3 mans will be ok for people who know how to play their classes and are reasonably well geared.

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That balrog was tough, really tough at 50. That extra 1 or 2% multiplied across your raid would have been key in making many rift encounters easier.

The Balrog was 6-manned at Level 50, long before Moria. It was really more about mechanics and personal responsibility than numbers.

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6 manned by extremely well-geared, knowledgeable players who knew that particular fight like the back of their hands.

 

The LT was 6 manned at level 65, again by well-geared, knowledgeable players who knew that fight like the back of their hands, the best on their server.

 

We are talking about the cream of the crop, so what does this have to do with the argument?

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The Balrog was 6-manned at Level 50, long before Moria. It was really more about mechanics and personal responsibility than numbers.

I'm sure there are edge cases where that is true but for us mere mortals that x% really did make a huge difference.

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Hey Aylwen,

I too registered on this site to thank you for answering so many questions and for posting so much of your valuable insight on the behind-the-scenes conduct of Turbine. It certainly goes a long way towards explaining the general decline of game quality I've experienced since I started playing in late-MoM/early-SoM. I agree with the sentiment that most players seem to be espousing, that LotRO PvMP has experienced a sharp decline since RoR (the foundations of which were laid during RoI). However, as you've enlightened us all too, it seems this is merely an inevitable outcome of a larger wound that has been festering for some time. I will continue to play, and am looking forward to U16 and seeing how the changes play out in the Ettenmoors, but I sail into the high seas with low expectations. Fortunately, though, I have built a fantastic community on Creep-side over the past 4-5 years, which continues to be the highlight of LotRO for me. In regards to the drama in the Ettenmoors, I haven't found it to be that bad, at least on Brandywine. I think it very much is the case of an exceedingly vocal minority, and it's no surprise to see some of them vying for attention here.

 

On another note, I'm glad to hear you seem to be doing okay, and equally glad to hear you are also enjoying Paradox Interactive games like Crusader Kings II. Although, I will admit I've been playing more EU4 than CK2 of late because I find CK2 too easy (and I've already played HoI3 to death). In regards to other MMOs, I'm still enjoying SWTOR to some extent (though I only recently start dabbling in it again). Though I fear it may suffer from a similar issue to LotRO, i.e. the lack of a clear authority leader with a cogent vision for the future and direction of the game and the autonomy and funding to achieve it.

Thanks again for posting.

Kind regards,

~Ushrak, Warlord of Cohorts of the Red Legion (Brandywine).

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No problem, Ush. We've had some good times over the years; I wish a lot of things had played out differently in regards the Moors (even if a lot of the missteps, given the dev turnover rate and the tendency to dump the Moors on green dot devs, was probably inevitable) but I do think that in the future most of us will remember the experience with more fondness than rancor.

Regarding Paradox, I do love that company: some of their titles would have put me on cloud nine even back in the (imo) golden age of PC gaming in the 90s, to say nothing of today. I personally find CK2 to be their masterpiece. While I certainly enjoy EU there's just so much depth and true role playing elements there that I have yet to tire of it. I always found HOI to be a wonderful game (certainly 3) that was seriously flawed and yet endlessly interesting. The supply system was hopelessly broken, the AI had no idea how to handle either the Japanese or Americans (as the US player one could take on the entire world at once but in the bumbling hands of the AI the US was at best a nuisance), the air combat system was kind of ridiculous...yet every play through seemed to yield a memorable and unexpected campaign, whether it was fighting the Japanese in northern Australia, German FJs battling in central Africa, or a US expeditionary force defending Brazil against an Axis Argentina, and so many other scenarios I found myself in. I'm not 100% sure about HOI4 based on what I've seen so far but as long as it isn't another Sengoku (sigh) it should be worth a go.

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Very well spoken with respect to your first paragraph. One thing I've noticed in the few MMOs I've played over the years is that the disappearance of hard-core raiding guilds seems to pre-empt, or coincide with, the more severe declines in game quality. I don't think it's any coincidence that raiding guilds such as Resistance disappeared after RoI, which it seems was when things started to sprint down the dark path rather than jog.

On the subject of Paradox games:
While I really like CK2 (400+ hours on Steam) and it has essentially infinite content/possibilities (e.g. I still haven't played as an Indian ruler), I found the game to be too easy once I understood the mechanics. The most fun I had playing it was when I knew nothing about it, and everything was new, interesting and unexpected. Once I became more experienced at the game and understood the mechanics I could pretty much conquer the world with almost any start. Once I become a King, I only had very minor difficulties in maintaining my rule; once I become an Emperor, it was essentially game over (in other words, vassals are too easy to manage). Additionally, I found the marriage system very easy to manipulate, e.g. I went from being a one-province Count in the Byzantine Empire to being the Emperor in 3 generations (so the Grandson of my original character was Emperor). I proceeded to restore the Roman Empire, mend the Great Schism and conquer the world without every losing my position of power once (I never even came close to losing it). The only play-through I've found challenging so far was the Karen start in 869 AD, but only because I purposefully decided not to swear fealty to one of the surrounding strong Sunni Kingdoms and bring them down from within. 

However, I suppose the same can be said of all Paradox games. Once you understand the mechanics of the games it becomes a cinch. I'm at a similar point now with EU4, wherein I can 'succeed' as almost any nation (although in EU4 you are far more restricted in what you can achieve based on the tech group you start as). In my latest EU4 campaign (Brandenburg>Prussia>Germany) I've conquered most of continental Europe in just under 200 years since the start date (Influence ideas are amazing).

The same happened to me with HoI3, my favourite nation to play as was Japan, but in one of my campaigns (on FTM) I had annexed all of China (Nat. China, Yunnan, Xibei San Man, Guangxi Clique, Tibet) plus Siam and made the following nations my puppets all before September 1939: Sinkiang, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Liberia, Portugal, Spain, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia (although the Soviets can annex these last three anyway via the decision, even if they are puppets), Bulgaria, Romania and Greece. All the while completely restructuring the Japanese Imperial Army, and rebuilding the Japanese Imperial Navy from scratch. By 1941 I had wiped out the British and French navies (which stupidly sailed all the way to the Pacific bit by bit to die to me), and when the Americans got annoyed about me invading the Philippines (yes, that was when they got all up in arms despite all of my aggressive expansion!) I butchered their navy with similar ease. Having said all that, I believe most of what I did to achieve the above (like perpetually being at war with Afghanistan to have the best laws) was fixed in TFH, but I haven't tried Japan in TFH yet as I purchased that expansion so late I figure I might as well wait for HoI4.

The supply system was FUBAR though, in my Japan FTM campaign when I annexed French Vietnam by decision (thereby connecting my annexed Siam and China together by land) the supply system imploded. All of a sudden supply bottlenecks appeared all over the place because the system was trying to send all of the supply required for all of my territory in Asia to one port. This port had 10 infrastructure... but was surrounded by provinces with 5 or 6 infrastructure at best. :/ I managed to fix this issue by creating my own supply routes, but it still wasn't perfect because the player has very basic control over that aspect of the game.

From what I've seen of HoI4 it looks promising, but time will tell. However, perhaps we should continue this conversation in PMs or Vent some time, as I don't want to be the guy that derails the thread (and I fear I already am). :P

Kind regards,

~Ushrak.

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First post here on LOTROCommunity, but off and on long-time anonymous browser. Nutty's (Aylwen) posts struck quite the nostalgic chord in me and figured I might as well register. Can't say that I plan to be that active, but I do find most topics of convo to be of interest and enjoy the relatively respectful and mature banter that ensues. That is a far cry more than can be said for the official forums these days. 

 

The Moors will always have a very special place in my heart. From the last few Books of SoA through MoM, SoM, and F2P, I spent the majority of my time creepside on my Warg. I was basically one of those crazies who was paying a sub to play the PvMP side game. Started out with VVV (Veni Vidi Vici) on Windfola, and after MoM dropped the tribe migrated for the greener (more active) pastures of Brandywine. The tribe rebranded itself as TvT (Terminus Venatus Triumphus), and anyone who was at least casually involved in the Moors during that period of time on the server is very well aware of the reputation that our tribe had. Those few years were easily the most fun that I ever had in a game.

screenshot00131z.jpg

 

To answer the question posed in the title of this thread: I will say both "yes" and "no"  ;)

 

Yes in the fact that the competitive nature of PvP will almost always bring out the worst in those who are less than well-adjusted.

 

No in that my closest in-game relationships and fondest memories of LOTRO were found while playing almost exclusively with such people. PvMP WAS the game for me, as has been voiced by at least a few other people already.

Then again, perhaps I am one of "those people" and thus cannot adequately answer the question without a heavy dose of bias seeping through.

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Hiya RhaeRhae :). I have really enjoyed the forum, not as a platform for rattling off my old stories so much as for how it reminds me of the old LOTRO community. Certainly the many insights and well-considered view points have enhanced my own thinking on the game both as a set of game systems and as a social platform. As regards the OP, it remains an interesting question insofar as how the Moors community may have been perceived from the outside looking in. The culture of PvMP was so intense and so marked in its closeness and in its foibles that I don't think that I could really be objective myself. It was like the Godfather bit about being pulled in: once one had fallen under its strange spell, it became, as you say, the game, with the rest of Middle Earth a rear area for relaxation and refitting.

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 Started out with VVV (Veni Vidi Vici) on Windfola

 

THAT exact tribe showed me how NOT to treat new creep players. When I think back on stuff like that, I understand why so few LotrO players have tried out the moors. 

 

If anyone thinks that a toxic community exists on a realm like Brandy nowadays, that's a sign that they haven't played back in 2007.

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I was always of two minds on the new creep experience. On the one hand, yes, one wants to be welcoming and friendly when the opportunity presents itself. We're all fellow LOTRO players and deserve to be accorded some basic respect. I tried to be nice to new players when I interacted with them (just throwing a newb a bubble could be worth a lot to them). On the other hand, I wasn't unduly concerned if a new player decided they couldn't handle the curve and left. I saw it as no great loss: less lag, less OOC QQ. In sad practical fact, the dodgy nature of Turbine's servers really required that most jilted newbies went skulking back to Breeland for the zone to function at all.

If anyone thinks that a toxic community exists on a realm like Brandy nowadays, that's a sign that they haven't played back in 2007.

Having played on BW between SoA and HD, I have no recollection of BW's community being particularly toxic in SoA; quite the opposite. But apart from a few weeks on Meneldor(which had a nice atmosphere as far as I could tell) and some admin ghosting elsewhere, I couldn't speak on other servers during SoA with any certainty.
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6 manned by extremely well-geared, knowledgeable players who knew that particular fight like the back of their hands.

 

The LT was 6 manned at level 65, again by well-geared, knowledgeable players who knew that fight like the back of their hands, the best on their server.

 

We are talking about the cream of the crop, so what does this have to do with the argument?

 

The worst thing is I don't even remember the mechanics anymore ;) But you are correct, knowing that everyone in the group knows what to do and knowing you can trust them is key. 

 

Although knowing the mechanics and having the correct gear helps a lot. Stacking shadow resistance also helped a lot :) - Too bad those kind of things aren't important anymore :(

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THAT exact tribe showed me how NOT to treat new creep players. When I think back on stuff like that, I understand why so few LotrO players have tried out the moors. 

 

If anyone thinks that a toxic community exists on a realm like Brandy nowadays, that's a sign that they haven't played back in 2007.

 

Trust me.  "o" was worse on Windfola.

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As regards the OP, it remains an interesting question insofar as how the Moors community may have been perceived from the outside looking in. The culture of PvMP was so intense and so marked in its closeness and in its foibles that I don't think that I could really be objective myself. It was like the Godfather bit about being pulled in: once one had fallen under its strange spell, it became, as you say, the game, with the rest of Middle Earth a rear area for relaxation and refitting.

 

I liken the PvMP experience to attending a small private junior high or high school. Everyone knows everyone, and is thus all up in each other's business. This isn't always the best thing, but you do feel as if you actually know the people that you are playing with on a deeper level (both with and against). I should point out that by "deeper level" I am referring only to their in-game, and further more in-Moors persona that they display.

 

On the point of the rest of the game being an area for rest and relaxation.. I used to get super spooked whenever I heard horses riding up near me. As a warg this was part of my ingrained survival instincts. Problem was, when I happened to pop over to play my hunter or burg I'd still be getting all jumpy whenever a player rode by me whilst I was questing or tooling around about town. 

 

THAT exact tribe showed me how NOT to treat new creep players. When I think back on stuff like that, I understand why so few LotrO players have tried out the moors. 

 

If anyone thinks that a toxic community exists on a realm like Brandy nowadays, that's a sign that they haven't played back in 2007.

 

I was always of two minds on the new creep experience. On the one hand, yes, one wants to be welcoming and friendly when the opportunity presents itself. We're all fellow LOTRO players and deserve to be accorded some basic respect. I tried to be nice to new players when I interacted with them (just throwing a newb a bubble could be worth a lot to them). On the other hand, I wasn't unduly concerned if a new player decided they couldn't handle the curve and left. I saw it as no great loss: less lag, less OOC QQ. In sad practical fact, the dodgy nature of Turbine's servers really required that most jilted newbies went skulking back to Breeland for the zone to function at all.

Having played on BW between SoA and HD, I have no recollection of BW's community being particularly toxic in SoA; quite the opposite. But apart from a few weeks on Meneldor(which had a nice atmosphere as far as I could tell) and some admin ghosting elsewhere, I couldn't speak on other servers during SoA with any certainty.

 

There was definitely a high level of elitism displayed by the tribe in regards to who was qualified to get raid invites, and even more selectivity in who was invited to become an actual member. While many looked down on these policies, I never took it personally or had a problem with it. I made it to Rank 6 as a non-affiliated warg before eventually being recruited to join the tribe. At that point I had acquired all of my maps, knew the ins and outs of my class (at the time), and was fully dedicated to playing Creepside. Fact of the matter is that it is quite difficult (impossible) to run a well-oiled successful croup / craid with a bunch of green and blue dots who are not yet invested in their toons, who cannot move immediately from location to location due to the lack of maps, and who are undisciplined. You could take these same facts and slightly edit them to suit the requirements for a high-level end-game raiding group during the same period. You certainly were not going to get an invite to Rift, Hele, Watcher, DN, DG runs without being properly geared and experienced.

 

The same applied to the way VVV / TvT approached things in the Moors. This enabled us to be quite successful over the years fighting Freep groups / raids on equal footing or being outnumbered and still being able to get kills, if not winning the field of battle outright. We did our best to play smart and not give away easy kills to the enemy. Not that we never died or got beaten, but if we gave up kills then the opposition was definitely having to work for them. Some of my best memories were the epic saves that transpired when a tribemate was pretty much dead to rights and we as a group managed to keep them upright. As a tribe we were never into organized anything, be it raid battles, 1v1s, and the like. We roamed the map looking for good fights and would engage based off of solid intelligence, using sound tactics. A number of the more senior members of the tribe had various levels of military experience, so that definitely played a roll in how we conducted our business.

 

Now you will not find me attempting to defend the behavior of some of the members of the tribe over the years. There were heavy amounts of trolling / griefing / baiting / flaming / reporting / etc. that people were involved in both in-game and on the official forums. I personally kept myself out of these things as I never had any interest in being a part of the drama. While we were often blamed for instigating much of the toxicity on Windy and then on BW, it must be pointed out that these things usually started with someone being upset and spouting off on the forums or in-game in OOC. This was pretty much the equivalent of offering up your neck to a ravenous wolf; don't be surprised when the creature tears into you as a result. Again, not in anyway saying that I personally approve of such behavior, just stating how things often played out. Really no different than in most competitive gaming situations where people spend enough time around the opposition and have a medium to e-peen duel on the regular. If anything it made the in-game battles that much more intense as a by-product. 

 

Like Nutty, I was always happy to help newer Creep players out on my own time, and since I'm on the West Coast I would find myself grouping up with various folks for smaller fights as well as for questing and DoF farming after the peak hour folks had logged for the night. It got to the point that when rage threads would pop up concerning how horrible, evil, and nasty the tribe was, there was almost always a line stating something along the lines of: ".. aside from Rhae Rhae. He's the nice one." Always took a certain amount of personal satisfaction in that.

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I used to get super spooked whenever I heard horses riding up near me. As a warg this was part of my ingrained survival instincts. Problem was, when I happened to pop over to play my hunter of burg I'd still be getting all jumpy whenever a player rode by me whilst I was questing or tooling around about town.

Ha I remember that sensation well. Especially for the first few years, that sudden clatter of hooves spelled doom: one CC application and it was often as not gray screen time. On the same token I remember catching myself randomly tracking on my hunter while running around in pve, apparently unwilling to accept that wargs hadn't followed me to Mirkwood or wherever I was.

I well remember the arrival of TvT/VVV on BW and the negative reaction of some to their brash ways. Others among us welcomed the shake-up; in a system like PvMP there's always the danger of a stagnant status quo that stifles any development in the community and just makes things dull. And TvT not only backed up their talk, they maintained their own identity and relevance for quite some time. Most xfer groups, for all their posturing and baiting, made little to no impact on the zone over the long term. TvT was definitely not one of those. The reporting bit was a little ridiculous (after all, someone in CS had to sort through that stuff and that slowed down ticket response times for the entire game) but hardly unique to TvT or even PvMP.

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My take on new Creeps in the moors.....it's a baptism by fire. They have to have thick skins, keep their mouths/keyboards shut, and read/listen to what's going on around them for a week or 2, or ragequit, hopefully over to their Freep!

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 In sad practical fact, the dodgy nature of Turbine's servers really required that most jilted newbies went skulking back to Breeland for the zone to function at all.

Holy shit.  Think about the ramifications of that.

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Holy shit. Think about the ramifications of that.

That was the great abiding conundrum of PvMP. Improve accessibility and attract more players...only to negate the improvements through the consequent decline in performance. Impose hard population ceilings to improve performance only to thereby limit accessibility. And so on.

Looking back now with some time and distance I'd have to say that ultimately the Moors as we experienced it was all the Moors realistically could have been. I cannot, knowing what I know, envision a scenario where there would have existed the necessary resources, command interest, and technical work required to take the Moors from its state of perma-beta to a fully realized and functional system. Certainly more could have been done (or less, in some cases) but just what such ought to have been is up to the imagination of the individual player. At the crux of it all there remained-and remains still-the very nature of the system and that couldn't have been meaningfully addressed save by a massive overhaul. When you pit two totally different sides-one being composed of fully realized characters, the other being fleshed out NPCs-in a game that sees one side constantly evolving and the other constantly trying to react to that evolution, the likelihood of the results being truly satisfactory are virtually nil. And then there was always the lag...

I suspect that most of us never quite achieved the level of Zen-like sangfroid required to simply accept the zone on its own terms. In fact the shared frustrations probably acted as a subtle bonding agent for the community. But even back in the first few years I saw the Moors as essentially an accidental social experiment: turn these guys loose in a sequestered, persistent area with little direction or oversight and the occasional pot-stirring and see what they do with it. Personally I found the results very interesting and well worth experiencing.

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  • 3 weeks later...

New to the forums, saw this was posted on Elendilmirs faecbook page, I have only managed to get through a few pages in the hour I'v been reading your responses Aylwen and I thank you for your enlightening posts. I would just like to say I applied for a job at Turbine near 5 years ago now (?), Sapience actually got me an interview. I showed up early so I sat in the lobby I guess you could call it for about a half hour with random people walking through literally asking me what the hell I was waiting for, there was a video on loop on several TV screens including the one behind the unoccupied secretaries desk about DDO and LOTRO that I basically had memorized by the time I actually got into the interview. As I said after 30 minutes someone came out and got me, took me through the facility, like a penny tour, saw the war room, saw the massive cubical section you have posted many pictures of, and all the other arcade games that bordered the rooms so people working on the actual game could relax their brains a bit and play other stuff. I was then taken into a small white room where I was interviewed by two people, twice (4 people total). On my cover letter I had put that I was a lifetime member and for about 2 years was the highest ranking pvper in the game and at the time had a rank 14 warg making me the highest ranked warg in the U.S. (as I was the first rank 14 in the U.S. though I had been passed in points by one other warg) (just before the interview Cowlick of Elendilmir and either Xkillah of Brandywine or Grizlark of Elendilmir passed me infamy wise on the same day). Both sets of interviewers literally their first question was "why do you keep pvping?" the first time I simply said because I find it fun and it holds my attention, the 2nd time I got a little angry and actually replied with a question "is this to satisfy your curiosity or does this actually have any relevance to me getting a job?" to which they replied they where just curious as they never had anyone with any sufficient rank ever come in looking for a job, they then said they had someone on staff in the past (guess he was laid off or left) that may have had a rank 13 but that was it, no one else pvped to the extent the two of us had then they expounded on it by saying that most people working there don't even log much time in actual live game. I should have probably walked out at that point because from those responses I should have known nothing was going to come of the interview but I continued, explaining that I had a maxed out freep char as well that was at the time in the premier pve kin on Meneldor, explaining that my kinship was world first or one of in defeating the Rift, nofly Thorogs, the Watcher and other raids. At the end they gave me a written test that I know I failed but don't think it lost me the job, it had a bunch of stuff on it like what does RAM stand for (I build computers and know they are the sticks of batteries I put in my computer to make things faster but have not actually committed what R.A.M. actually stands for to memory (Random Access Memory)). So I went about guessing what I could and walked out feeling repetitively confident at the time (even though I know I failed that test miserably) as all the interviewers had said it was the best interview they had ever been apart of even though it was literally my first ever. Needless to say I didn't get the job, and found out that they literally choose someone else who lived down the street from me since we where both children, we are both from the same town in Rhode Island so the commute was the same, he had applied 3 months earlier than I. It was at this point that I realized (and this may be the cynic in me but it's how I feel) that they literally only invited me there to see the freak nerd who spends so much time in a side-part of the game. My friend ended up getting laid off three months after he began working for the Turbine. I was at first jealous that he got the job, but after hearing he was laid off (last one in first one out type thing I guess) I honestly didn't feel to bad about it, and held out hope for a call from Turbine in the future like he got, even though i felt the way I did knowing what I knew at that point, because, it's a job and one I would probably have fun doing. It's been 5 years, and now seeing your posts I'm thoroughly disheartened, the players council was a gimmick (another thing about turbine I had hoped to be apart of as some of my ideas had been getting relayed through the Elendilmir representatives at the time anyway). But mainly disheartened in how you view the industry, I have come up with a game I am attempting to patent and from what you have described about the slow death of Turbine and the quality of work and how it could have been better I am left to wonder if I do get the patent (which atm is at least a $10,000 investment in itself) and am allowed some artistic freedom money/if it's bought by a company allowing, is this what I have to look forward to? I really hope not but your posts are most enlightening and again thank you for relaying your experience. Sorry for the wall of text.

 

Best Regards to all,

-Azsouth of Elendilmir, Anoden of Meneldor

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Heya Azsouth.  Though outside of an RoI PvMP beta event we never played together I was certainly aware of you (like most serious PvMPers I followed the leader boards on a daily basis) and your career.

It sounds like your interview fell somewhere between my first departure and the move to the new building if you saw the sections I posted pics of (so summer to fall-ish 2010 or perhaps later, I can't remember exactly when the move fell at this point).  Had I been there at the time I would have lobbied hard on your behalf.  I'm not sure why they gave you a test or why, given your play time, they didn't hire you although I guess it depended on what department you were interviewing for.

Edited by Aylwen
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