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Lotro PvPers...are they really that bad?


Amenhir
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Yea as a  guard I spent about 10 minutes on BR HD beta, then un-installed. 

I ran around for a little more than that.  Maybe 30 minutes.

Tried to log back into the regular game but after 10 to 15 minutes there, knowing my captain was going to die an unavoidable death, the entire feeling of the game was gone.  I logged out and started looking for a new game.  After 7 steady years of playing LOTRO.  

Edited by Leafblade
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I ran around for a little more than that.  Maybe 30 minutes.

Tried to log back into the regular game but after 10 to 15 minutes there, knowing my captain was going to die an unavoidable death, the entire feeling of the game was gone.  I logged out and started looking for a new game.  After 7 steady years of playing LOTRO.  

I suffered through Helms Deep with each disappointment  greater than the last. I even came back for fangorn but at that point my kin was a ghost town.  

Endgame for pets no thanks.  There are much better ways to give out novelties than dailies with a roulette wheel reward.  It felt like some two bit carnies running the milk bottle booth.  

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

You go out of the PC if you cancel your VIP?

Maybe they'd rather have payers than players on the PC.  In a free to play game with optional subscription  the only way to express your disapproval of the game direction is to stop paying.  Cancel sub, don't buy TP.  Next step stop logging in.  Nothing kills an online MMO faster than no one logging in.   If everything that dude said is true it just confirms my belief that the PC is a publicity stunt.  But I knew this long ago.  We had 2 kinnies over the years who were in the PC.  And they were so petrified by the NDA that they were hesitant to address our concerns as players and embrace our ideas.  You'd say something on Vent and the response would be dead air or a subject change.  We weren't asking for insider info.

Basically it went kind of like this:

"The new loot system is a piece of trash!  Could you talk to them about it?"  Response "It's not something I can discuss"

It's like they became Turbine robots.  Really you can't admit that the game systems are garbage?   Even though we knew they were complaining about it a couple months prior when they were not PC members.  We weren't asking for anyone to break NDAs.  The criticism of Turbine stopped all together as well.  I think folks in the first couple PC's were just afraid to say anything.  I'm glad this poster took the initiative and said hey fuck you.  But as always his comment will be deleted and ignored.  Carry forward!

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You go out of the PC if you cancel your VIP?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that dude saying he was on the (PVMP) Player Council, and as such it would make sense for him to have to be subscribed to "reliably" play all aspects of that game mode?  Especially when giving it came to giving current feedback to the powers that be?

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This person was talking about the PvMP PC.  I always thought the only way to access PvMP is to be VIP, unless they changed it and I missed it.  So if he can't access the moors now, I guess that's why they booted him.  Seems unfair, it's not like you forget everything you learned over the years just by dropping your sub.  

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Playing Reaver put aside, it's not like Turbine fixes and upgrades LOTRO with light speed. What's the big deal in missing a few months of PvP? You suddenly become 'clueless' for this game aspect? I'm more to think this is not the true reason (could be misunderstanding, not a conspiracy).

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I'm more to think this is not the true reason.

They kicked someone out of the main council - way back - when Sapience did not like that that person had to say. They obviously had a choice to leave this PvMP council player on the council or not. Of course they kicked him off because they wanted to get rid of someone who was speaking out. If they did not want to get rid of the person, they would have just let him stay on the council - since he obviously had years of playing PvMP and could give good feedback.

All of the councils are a joke, and just a free test group for Turbine - at this point. When they started they were a way for Sapience to feel important, and make him think he was in charge of a big MMO that needed a player council.

The council has probably helped the game in several small ways, but Turbine has wrecked the game in a lot of big ways.

 

Edited by nosam9
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This person was talking about the PvMP PC.  I always thought the only way to access PvMP is to be VIP, unless they changed it and I missed it.  So if he can't access the moors now, I guess that's why they booted him.  Seems unfair, it's not like you forget everything you learned over the years just by dropping your sub.  

I don't find the reasoning(if this is the case) behind potential removal unfair at all.

To me it would be common sense to have a player on a specific focus group of a SPECIFIC game system to at the very least have full access to that entire game mode for the duration if their tenure.

It is/was/will be the potential player council members responsibility to ensure they have access to this system for their term.

At least that would be my thinking - but I am frequently mistaken ;-)

I'm thinking there is more to this than meets the eye.

Perhaps someday we will know hehe.

Edited by TaffyIX
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It is/was/will be the potential player council members responsibility to ensure they have access to this system for their term.

It is Turbine's responsibility to select the appropriate, most useful applicants for a given council. This and nothing else should be the 'bottleneck' of the whole exercise. After that, keep these people in a happy condition so that they can help you. Give them free VIP for a year, whatever. Make sure they have access to the system in question, because they are doing voluntary work that would cost more than your fucking VIP if you had to pay them.

I mean, it's not like VIP sales will drop twice because of the this, right? Or will they?...

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It is Turbine's responsibility to select the appropriate, most useful applicants for a given council. This and nothing else should be the 'bottleneck' of the whole exercise. After that, keep these people in a happy condition so that they can help you. Give them free VIP for a year, whatever. Make sure they have access to the system in question, because they are doing voluntary work that would cost more than your fucking VIP if you had to pay them.

I mean, it's not like VIP sales will drop twice because of the this, right? Or will they?...

Imagine the uproar if the PC actually got free VIP for a year? It barely works when it is an entirely voluntary thing. If they started giving VIP prizes to members that would just be another thing people would bitch about.

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lol I'll hop in.  My take.  As a company/product who's market share is...less than ideal...what's a better source of feedback?  Someone whos paying already and arguably at least somewhat content with current systems/implementation, at least to the point they are willing to pay for it.  Or conversely someone who is unwilling to buy in currently and therefore a potential indicator of a marketable demographic?  By creating an echo chamber of only those somewhat satisfied(at least to a degree varying between individuals) doesn't that preclude market share growth?  Discuss

 

EDIT of course this implies the PC is worth more than wet toilet paper as a source of feedback.  In some respects that echo chamber effect inho has a lot to do with SOM, the cap removal, Hytbolt/Wildermore. and class revamps.  Or hell moving to a gear/level progression thinking they would grab WoW players with 1/10 the resources 1/3 team size and 1/2 the time for the same price point.  While not considering that accelerates the atrophy of existing content*requiring even more resources to replace outdated/leveled/geared content.  Along with diminishing resources it allowed them to create a false narrative internally that face planted when it hit reality, much like IC.  They were chasing a demographic that doesn't actually exist, or one that was already adequately served by existing products.  If the PC concept had ever been intended to address that long standing problem within Turbine(which I doubt, it was a PR stunt imho) it has to date failed horribly.  It's an even bigger echo chamber now than it ever was, and their market performance reflects that.   Know your product know your market.

Edited by Bendin
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that dude saying he was on the (PVMP) Player Council, and as such it would make sense for him to have to be subscribed to "reliably" play all aspects of that game mode?  Especially when giving it came to giving current feedback to the powers that be?

You don't have to be a subscriber to play creepside. I could make the same argument that non-raiders shouldn't be invited to the regular player council since they don't play all aspects of PvE. Same with people that play music, dabble in housing, etc. I would gladly take an expert on creepside over someone who rarely plays PvP in this game, even though they are a subscriber.

I suspect that the reason he was kicked off was that it was a convenient excuse to silence someone who criticized the game.

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You don't have to be a subscriber to play creepside. I could make the same argument that non-raiders shouldn't be invited to the regular player council since they don't play all aspects of PvE. Same with people that play music, dabble in housing, etc. I would gladly take an expert on creepside over someone who rarely plays PvP in this game, even though they are a subscriber.

I suspect that the reason he was kicked off was that it was a convenient excuse to silence someone who criticized the game.

I remember starting a creep as a non vip.  A black arrow or what ever it's called.  Although I would never claim to be an expert.  And my creep experience maybe lasted 1 hour. 

Allow me to reintroduce this again.  Lotro is a F2P with optional Subscription.  To play the game you don't need to be a subscriber.  You can actually buy the content via the store and never need VIP.  That doesn't make your opinion on the game mean less. 

All that said, that council is a total joke.  You want me to take something that includes Thecrossbow, Sabriel, Frickinmuck and the other forum trolls seriously?  You must be joking.  If you're going to give players the special snowflake title and let them represent the overall playerbase at least do minimum fact checking.  At least go back a single day in the forum history to do so.  

In Turbines defense some great players have been chosen for the task of giving them feedback on their game and it seems all of those folks came back here and expressed their disgust with it and Turbine as a company.   It would be telling if we could find out how many players from the 2013 and 2014 PC that are still playing and enjoying it. 

If a developing studio is really looking for feedback on their game why give out the list of players names on their public forum?!

 

 

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It would be telling if we could find out how many players from the 2013 and 2014 PC that are still playing and enjoying it. 

If a developing studio is really looking for feedback on their game why give out the list of players names on their public forum?!

2013 member here. Was mostly on autopilot the last year but pretty much gave up over the past few months. I've logged in recently to handle kinship handoff but that's about it.

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  • 1 month later...

Time to chime in. I have been playing freep and creep since the first open beta. Leaving SWG for LOTRO back then. I retired from freep play in 2008 and took a break in creep play for many years only to return early this year. I learned the creep community is still a small, tight and friendly bunch who need to work together to deal with the freeps. My contribution is about pmvp only. Because the pmvp part is unique and in the beginning cleverly crafted. For instance: The second pmvp map, Osgilliath, is clearly a failure, it was abandonded only 1 week after the release. It shows how well thought the original dev's created the Moors. With a founders sub I never had an issue with F2P but I seriously hope they leave the Moore alone. To my it is the only part of the game which is still of interest. 

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