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Kairos

An indication of things to come?

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A good alternative is to do something on behalf of the Community to request it as a service i.e one big Letter, e-mail drop etc. You dont want a few doing it as they may get banned :) but many? different story.

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In which case, the best timing may be a petition on Turbine's forums a few days after we get access to them (and before we all get banned lol)

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A good alternative is to do something on behalf of the Community to request it as a service i.e one big Letter, e-mail drop etc. You dont want a few doing it as they may get banned :) but many? different story.

Would it also be ok if you keep posting with your current account instead of the new one we'll have to make in a few days? Or do they something with IP-adresses?

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Oh noes and I believe I pressed some kind of agree button here too! /o\

*hips and sneaks around*

I think here it boils down to 'I agree not to flame and troll.' :P

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Would it also be ok if you keep posting with your current account instead of the new one we'll have to make in a few days? Or do they something with IP-adresses?

Most people use dynamic IP's so they had to stop using IP addresses as ban lists :)

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More to the point. If a thread was deleted on the Turbine forums which related to this issue, I can't see them bothering to reply to questions about it...

Traditionally, they will not entertain questions concerning a deleted or closed topic in public, and they are especially vehement in response to new posts/topics concerning either, with punishment meted out according to their rules (or whims). Of course, they say that a forumite can ask a moderator about why something was deleted or locked, but, as we see from other examples, the answer more-or-less boils down to "Because we said so." Essentially, you will not win that battle on Turbine's forums.

However, there are other battlefields that Turbine has less influence over...

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Modbreak: The original text of Sapience's response has been removed by request of the person who actually received the PM. Please don't re-post it.

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Freedom of speech is actually not a government thingy but a fundamental core right of the citizens of most Western countries. The thing is that freedom comes in many forms which aren't necessarily incompatible, while you enjoy free speech any individual or corporation enjoys the right to use their property as they deem fit. Hence, it makes complete sense that Turbine is allowed to shun you from their company servers and facilities for exerting your free speech :)

Here's George Carlin's take on rights :

(4:23) and onwards)

Binabik

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I think here it boils down to 'I agree not to flame and troll.' :P

I'll happily do my utter best to keep myself from that then *firebre...*

Most people use dynamic IP's so they had to stop using IP addresses as ban lists :)

That's a relief, thank you! :)

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The following quote is from the CM forums just a few of weeks ago:

Oddly enough we allow a lot of that on the US forums as it is. I know there is a perception of the Turbine forums being very tightly controlled and negative comments being removed, but it's very far from the truth. Yes we do remove inappropriate comments because honestly, I don't think anyone likes having profanity and inappropriate things said to them or about them. That applies to comments directed at players and employees alike. We have a saying, "It's not what you say, it's how you choose to say it".

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/lord-rings-online-general-discussion-424/462783-transition-questions-queries-12.html

That goes way beyond spin. It is, of course, a straight up, bald face lie. And, it is one that apparently Sapience doesn't mind being caught in for some reason if you read his response in the OP which completely contradicts it (Edit: The response in the OP has been removed, but I assert that it does).

Why in the world would Turbine have it's employees lie to their customer base and then make sure that they know they are being intentionally lied to? It's bizarre, to say the least, and it will be the ruin of Turbine if they allow it to continue. People don't trust or like liars -- in fact, they generally hate them. So it's a stupid move, especially if you know for a fact that you are going to get caught in your lies (especially if you are going to tell on yourself).

Dalthalion posted a link in another thread to a blog that contains a complaint about Sapience during his days as a Hellgate: London forum mod. It's insightful if true. Judging by his behavior as the "Gestapo of the Turbine forums," I have no reason to doubt that it is.

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Hang on Honvik, this is normal tone of responses from them? That's bordering on offensive! And they said *we* were bad... 7(8)7

Turbine forums are looking like even more of a no-go area. I'm glad CM hosted a few events up until the end, and two fingers to Turbine! :Y)

(the pitchfork was as close as I could get) :P

Blaize i've seen far worse.... (sitting in my message folder :P )

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Unacceptable from supposed professionals. I've modded a few forums in my time and never been so rude (never been paid to do it either). This is a company image they're supposed to be upholding for cryin out loud...

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Its probably Turbines idea of how to win friends and influence people. Its the kind of letter I would expect from a lawyer warning me do it again and you are in serious trouble.

I don't really see that many people here will bother posting on the turbine forums.

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I might use their forum but if I decide to do so, I'll do it the 'safe' way.

Write the comments offline in a text editor. Save it. Walk away and do something else for a while then come back and if I still think it's a good idea, then post it eerie.gif

Having said that, most of this 'doom and gloom' about Turbine is hearsay as far as I'm concerned at least. I've never had to deal with them before except for a few attempts at playing DDO so I don't really know what to expect. I imagine they'll be pretty much like any company based in the US where everything is run by expensive lawyers...

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ToS are like the Bible ... most of us accept it without reading it })

I have read it and I don't accept it ;)

Its probably Turbines idea of how to win friends and influence people. Its the kind of letter I would expect from a lawyer warning me do it again and you are in serious trouble.

I don't really see that many people here will bother posting on the turbine forums.

I will most likely not post there other than on my f2p account.

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Unfortunately this is what companies do. Lieing is very common within all industries, If done correctly then really it's not so bad. But when you lie through your teeth and then blatantly contradict yourself and reveal that you were in fact lying, sounds like a bit stupid really.

I suspect Sapience..is simply...doing his job? I mean relationships between companies aren't really EVER of the friendly and joyful type, they're usually filled with frustration and it was a tense partnership at best between CM and Turbine.

Just because Turbine police their forums a bit different than to what CM do, doesn't mean that they're 'terrible' and mean people, it just means that they're a bit more effective and less lenient in terms of what they consider offensive.

It may just be me, being half american myself, I am very much pro-american and I rarely ever find something about them to hate, an exception might be some of the accents in different states.

Personally while that comment was a bit unfair to Codies and really a stab in the back move, it certainly isn't uncommon within industries :/

-Tiger(Wyn)

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Having said that, most of this 'doom and gloom' about Turbine is hearsay as far as I'm concerned at least. I've never had to deal with them before except for a few attempts at playing DDO so I don't really know what to expect.

Well, they do say that first-hand experience is the best teacher. Let us know how that goes.

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I guess in the end like I said its probably time to wait and see what happens. So far this community is small but it will grow and once Turbine opens it's doors to 1000's of EU subscribers things may change somewhat. There will always be some clashes but its working out which battle to fight and which battle to pull back to regroup.

It is certainly not the end but only the beginning of a new chapter.

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An MMO works not just on the basis of it's game content but on the strength and general happiness of its player community. Turbine may have to learn the hard way that you just can't contain dissent on the internet. Turbine has the choice - address player concerns openly in their own space or get eaten alive by the anger that the attempted supression of genuinely held customer views ultimatley causes. Happier customers are often paying customers.

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OK, since there's been 'deleted upon requests' happening on here, I have no idea what people are talking about. Anyone willing to catch me up to date or give me the quotes in a PM or something because I can't find anything but the footprint of some legal cover up business.

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OK, since there's been 'deleted upon requests' happening on here, I have no idea what people are talking about. Anyone willing to catch me up to date or give me the quotes in a PM or something because I can't find anything but the footprint of some legal cover up business.

to Moderators; I hope this is OK, but please remove if it is not.........

The conversation is regarding a query as to whether Turbine would be offering GM support for server events such as were sometimes run by CM.

The response was that they could not do so, as these events were beyond what the game had been designed to do and were not authorised by Turbine.

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