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6 hours ago, Thrabath said:

I think we as western countries have a moral duty to help the first...

i don't agree.  especially not when in many of these EU countries, refugees are bumping local citizens out of housing & other services.  any countries moral obligation is to its OWN citizens first.  not to mention the damage to "the public purse" & infrastructure this mass immigration is causing.

the West owes these people nothing.

& as to the moral obligation; it is rather ironic...

6 hours ago, Thrabath said:

...though except for political refugees most of them can be helped much closer to the region they are fleeing from.

no one is surprised Israel isn't taking in refugees, however...   Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates or Bahrain?  arguably the most rich nations in the Arab world are also not helping.

however in one form or another all the above are funding some of the various wars and conflicts resulting in the crisis to begin with.  & that same money & politicking (not just the Clinton Foundation is guilty here) is behind the push to move mass immigrants into EU (& Western) nations.

the West needs to immediately push this back.  heck collectively, we should be sending countries of the Arabian peninsula a bill.  & if they don't pay up...  either untie Israels hands to put a smack down on the Saudis, or we do it ourselves.  would go miles to resolving the crisis & cost far less in the long run.

 

so glad Russia was finally able to step in and help their ally Syria; the headway made with that move has lead to many Syrians returning home:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/615466/Vladimir-Putin-refugee-crisis-Islamic-State-ISIS-Syria-Bashar-Assad

 

Thrabath, the Wests morale duties have been ass-backwards for far too long & that has a in large been due to money exchanged by the powerful.  i hope with all these recent political shifts, that change that is long overdue, will see actual results that benefit, not just the west, but ultimately the whole planet.

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11 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

And people are stunned that Trump took the position he did on Muslims....

they were wrong about pretty much everything leading up to Trumps election & they are wrong now about his actual intentions.

supposed educated people are soo quick to label contentions with Islam as racism against Arabs, yet they are quiet ignorant of a religious past that superseded Islam by over 1000 years...  Zoroastrianism among Persians.  just google "difference between Arab & Persian"  or have a look back at some of the first conflicts Islam had with another religious view...

Islam does NOT peacefully coexist with other faiths, but Globally has come into conflict with almost ALL of them.  they don't just despise Jews, but also Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists & so on.  "Peaceful Muslims" are the exception, rather than the rule & it is no irony that the bulk of those "legally migrated" to the West.

the atrocities in Indonesia in the name of Islam, are also another place to look & that is NOT a country of Arabs.

so when folk say Islam is NOT a race, or Muslims aren't a race...  that isn't just a bit of excuse making, but rather a vary nuanced and significant thing.  the ideology is the problem & fundamentally it is NOT compatible with the West.

why else would western nations be advertising to women to wear head scarves to avoid sexual harassment, or rape.  or that one should learn Arabic.  or that Sharia law be adapted, etc.  it is absurd on its face.  co-existing does not require conversion, why would it?  & that is how you separate the compatible from the conflict.

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Ok, you got some very generalized statements there that you need to revise in regards to the following:

Islam has a few derivations (like Christianity has Lutherans, Orthodox and Catholics, among others) and if you take a minute to check out the historical religions of many of the countries surrounding Syria, you will notice that they do not play well. We may call the islamic arabs as a VERY generalized term, but that is a pretty ignorant statement if you consider that the Wahabites in Saudi Arabia hate the guts of th... jeez, here have an image, read up.

1032px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.pn

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Denominations

So claiming that the richest are not helping out is just not the whole truth, nor relevant in all cases.

You claim these things from one of the largest countries in the world with very few citizens per square mile and a working social and healthcare system that the "west" should push the immigrants back? Ok. Please elaborate how? Shooting them on sight? Letting the starve to death? Gas bunkers...? We took in about 160.000 refugees last year. I am not involved in that, I have not met them, but I do know that if other countries took in a few more, the burden per country would be much less than it is today. So how many did Canada take in?

Frankly, you are pretty much full of crap.

 

Sweden's major issue abut immigrants and refugees is housing them. We are short on apartments, houses, condoes, you name it, this is partly because we have underestimated the need for actually building new housing  for at least a decade plus the fact we have so anal rules about building that it takes about 4-6 years to get all the planning and consents for your average 6 floor apartment building, Germany does it in about 18 months or some like that. We are full of young people refusing simple jobs because they all wanna be bosses or rockstars and ignore anything in between so our unemployment is not that big, about 6-7%, but we need people for those simpler unqualified jobs, since our own population don't want them but scream loud as hell when someone is not emptying the garbage bin. 

About feminism, I do not recognize your description and would ask you to elaborate a bit more. Swedens government has declared itself Feminist, but if you check the parliament and how much support you will see they have about 40% tops of the members, that counting coalition parties like the Green and the left.

Yes, I am swede, and a local politician to that. 

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12 minutes ago, Marancil said:

Ok, you got some very generalized statements there that you need to revise in regards to the following:

Islam has a few derivations (like Christianity has Lutherans, Orthodox and Catholics, among others) and if you take a minute to check out the historical religions of many of the countries surrounding Syria, you will notice that they do not play well. We may call the islamic arabs as a VERY generalized term, but that is a pretty ignorant statement if you consider that the Wahabites in Saudi Arabia hate the guts of th... jeez, here have an image, read up.

1032px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.pn

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Denominations

So claiming that the richest are not helping out is just not the whole truth, nor relevant in all cases.

You claim from one of the largest countries in the world with very few citizens per square mile and a working social and healthcare system that the "west" should push the immigrants back? Ok. Please elaborate how? Shooting them on sight? Letting the starve to death? Gas bunkers...? We took in about 160.000 refugees last year. I am not involved in that, I have not met them, but I do know that if other conties took in a few more, the burden per country would be much less than it is today. So how many did Canada take in?

Frankly, you are pretty much full of crap.

 

Swedens major issue abut immigrants and refugees is housing them. We are short on apartments, houses, condoes, you name it, this is partly because we have underestimated the need for actually building new housing plus the fact we have so anal rules about building that it takes about 4-6 years to get all the planning and consents for you average 6 floor apartment buildings, Germany does it in about 18 months or some like that.

About feminism, I do not recognize your description and would ask you to elaborate a bit more. Swedens government has declared itself Feminist, but if you check the parliament and how much support you will see they have about 40% tops of the members, that counting coalition parties like the Green and the left.

Yes, I am swede, and a local politician to that. 

I agree with you on most things here. Lasrael does come out with quite a lot of crap in his last 2 posts.

Advertising that women wear headscarves? I've never seen that, he would need to provide evidence of that to back it up. And which Western Nations is he talking about? Or is he just making broad sweeping statements. 

Learn Arabic?

Adapt Sharia Law?
 

I've never seen that suggested anywhere. I do know that some muslims in the UK would love for Sharia Law to be implemented throughout, but they are in the vast minority among muslims. At work, there are 2 volunteers who are muslims from Egypt. I've never seen them harass any of the women there for not wearing headscarves. I've never heard them wanting to impose Sharia. I've never heard them say that everyone should learn Arabic. So, I'm calling BS on most of Lasrael's statements, unless he can provide more than a few articles as evidence.

Anecdotal Evidence > Articles in the print media.

 

As far as his statements about Sweden being a feminist country. No. Just no. We are, as a nation, more liberal and more gender equal than most others, but that doesn't mean we are feminists. Sadly, I think the incessant need from the Government to want everything to be 50/50 between men and women in relation to government posts is counter-productive, and not in the best interest of the country as a whole. It should be the best person for the job, regardless of the gender of the person. Sadly, this isn't the case at all, especially not when you look at the collection of ministers that we have currently, and how capable they are of actually doing their jobs.

 

As for you, Marancil, you are a local politician? You sound as though you are a member of one of the Opposition parties, which I hold as a good thing!

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1 hour ago, Marancil said:

1032px-Islam_branches_and_schools.svg.pn

We are full of young people refusing simple jobs because they all wanna be bosses or rockstars and ignore anything in between so our unemployment is not that big, about 6-7%, but we need people for those simpler unqualified jobs, since our own population don't want them but scream loud as hell when someone is not emptying the garbage bin. 

 

I see this quite often here in the UK (pre and post Brexit), that the immigrants are "taking all the jobs".  Never mind the fact that some of the British are known for being lazy fuckers who can't be bothered to work the jobs they deem beneath them in the first place, but that won't stop them from making such ridiculous statements.

40 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

Learn Arabic?

Adapt Sharia Law?
 

I've never seen that suggested anywhere.

^ I've seen this splattered all over Facebook and other sites for years, it's fake news (of course) but people apparently are willing to believe it.  

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On 08/12/2016 at 10:57 AM, LasraelLarson said:

they were wrong about pretty much everything leading up to Trumps election & they are wrong now about his actual intentions.

supposed educated people are soo quick to label contentions with Islam as racism against Arabs, yet they are quiet ignorant of a religious past that superseded Islam by over 1000 years...  Zoroastrianism among Persians.  just google "difference between Arab & Persian"  or have a look back at some of the first conflicts Islam had with another religious view...

Islam does NOT peacefully coexist with other faiths, but Globally has come into conflict with almost ALL of them.  they don't just despise Jews, but also Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists & so on.  "Peaceful Muslims" are the exception, rather than the rule & it is no irony that the bulk of those "legally migrated" to the West.

the atrocities in Indonesia in the name of Islam, are also another place to look & that is NOT a country of Arabs.

so when folk say Islam is NOT a race, or Muslims aren't a race...  that isn't just a bit of excuse making, but rather a vary nuanced and significant thing.  the ideology is the problem & fundamentally it is NOT compatible with the West.

why else would western nations be advertising to women to wear head scarves to avoid sexual harassment, or rape.  or that one should learn Arabic.  or that Sharia law be adapted, etc.  it is absurd on its face.  co-existing does not require conversion, why would it?  & that is how you separate the compatible from the conflict.

The key to ask anyone is whether there ought to be state sanction for apostasy. Most people in the West would likely say no. Most in the Muslim world, judging by current law (and other polling), would probably say yes. It's a very large problem.

Good indicator of who is "moderate" and who isn't.

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1 hour ago, LordVorontur said:

 

As for you, Marancil, you are a local politician? You sound as though you are a member of one of the Opposition parties, which I hold as a good thing!

I am. That being said, there is a huge difference between being a local politician and a "national" one. The ones in government are more bound by the party agenda and can, when needed, hide behind policy and whatnot, we can not. The most interesting matter is that we co-rule our local council with the opposition. We have for 6 years now, and it works very well, because we are not tied up by the prestige thinking and the theoretical discussion in the capital or on higher levels of government. Sure, we scrape now and then due to "official" policy, but in general its all a matter of common sense and practical politics.

Sadly we see tendencies even here that some people only care about next election, which is inhibiting true long term thinking in so many ways. And we need long term solutions. Desperately. 

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5 hours ago, Marancil said:

Ok, you got some very generalized statements there that you need to revise in regards to the following:

Islam has a few derivations (like Christianity has Lutherans, Orthodox and Catholics, among others)

i will revise nothing.  when you set up a straw-man for me to knock down.  sorry, not biting.

& for clarity, i made ZERO mention of sectarian Islam.  look back & see, my mention was of Persians & Zoroastrianism which was birthed in Iran & extended throughout the Persian Empire.  this Faith (Zoroastrianism) proceeded the birth if Islam by over 1000 years.  i pointed to that because the Islamic conquest of Persia is VERY relevant.  in general the fall of the Sasanian Empire some few hundred years ago & specifically to the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

5 hours ago, Marancil said:

and if you take a minute to check out the historical religions of many of the countries surrounding Syria, you will notice that they do not play well. We may call the islamic arabs as a VERY generalized term, but that is a pretty ignorant statement if you consider that the Wahabites in Saudi Arabia hate the guts of th...

as i pointed out above. my look at History goes much further back than a chart of today's sectarian Islamic divisions with regard to racist projections against Arabs.  that Wahabi hatred has a history that predates Islamic sectarianism. & it is indeed why the Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain & United Arab Emirates not only have not helped by taking in refugees, but have indirectly funded the conflicts that started the refugee crisis to begin with.

THEY NEED TO RECEIVE A BILL!

completely relevant.

5 hours ago, Marancil said:

You claim these things from one of the largest countries in the world with very few citizens per square mile and a working social and healthcare system that the "west" should push the immigrants back? Ok. Please elaborate how? Shooting them on sight? Letting the starve to death? Gas bunkers...? We took in about 160.000 refugees last year. I am not involved in that, I have not met them, but I do know that if other countries took in a few more, the burden per country would be much less than it is today. So how many did Canada take in?

Frankly, you are pretty much full of crap.

Canada took too many.  with Trudeau cucking at the helm, we will take more.  they need to go back.

as i linked in my previous article, thanks to Russia's intervention many are returning home:

now Turkey may spoil this & NATO countries need to pressure Turkey to not make this situation worse.  but the west should be helping them rebuild their infrastructure (water, electricity, etc.)  would be infinitely cheaper to do, then upturning inadequate infrastructure in western countries.

and by Trumps latest speech in Baton Rouge, it looks like he is already preparing to make this happen.

5 hours ago, Marancil said:

About feminism, I do not recognize your description and would ask you to elaborate a bit more. Swedens government has declared itself Feminist, but if you check the parliament and how much support you will see they have about 40% tops of the members, that counting coalition parties like the Green and the left.

Yes, I am swede, and a local politician to that. 

4 hours ago, LordVorontur said:

As far as his statements about Sweden being a feminist country. No. Just no. We are, as a nation, more liberal and more gender equal than most others, but that doesn't mean we are feminists. Sadly, I think the incessant need from the Government to want everything to be 50/50 between men and women in relation to government posts is counter-productive, and not in the best interest of the country as a whole. It should be the best person for the job, regardless of the gender of the person. Sadly, this isn't the case at all, especially not when you look at the collection of ministers that we have currently, and how capable they are of actually doing their jobs.

how fairs snow plowing these days?  i heard there was a sharp expenditure increase lately still didn't help.  Sweden is a Feminist Country.  & 3rd wave Feminism is heavy on "Intersectionality."  which is just the new buzzword for Marxist identity politics.  representative quota demographics are at the core of that, experience & qualifications be damned.

 

4 hours ago, LordVorontur said:

I agree with you on most things here. Lasrael does come out with quite a lot of crap in his last 2 posts.

Advertising that women wear headscarves? I've never seen that, he would need to provide evidence of that to back it up. And which Western Nations is he talking about? Or is he just making broad sweeping statements. 

Learn Arabic?

Adapt Sharia Law?

I've never seen that suggested anywhere. I do know that some muslims in the UK would love for Sharia Law to be implemented throughout, but they are in the vast minority among muslims. At work, there are 2 volunteers who are muslims from Egypt. I've never seen them harass any of the women there for not wearing headscarves. I've never heard them wanting to impose Sharia. I've never heard them say that everyone should learn Arabic. So, I'm calling BS on most of Lasrael's statements, unless he can provide more than a few articles as evidence.

the headscarves is a German ad:

the learn Arabic is again Germany:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/722237/Migrants-refugees-asylum-seeker-Germany-Volker-Beck-Green-Party-politics-Arabic-Merkel

and as for Sharia law adaptation:

here it is indeed a gray area as those already migrated & citizens, versus those going through the naturalization process & the waves of incoming... the pew data isn't relevant to represent transition.

yes the most moderate Muslims have already naturalized.  those coming in from regions of the world however...  not remotely as moderate. but the demands for Sharia courts is increasing. again in Germany, there are even Sharia patrols:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/722237/Migrants-refugees-asylum-seeker-Germany-Volker-Beck-Green-Party-politics-Arabic-Merkel

the larger the Muslim population (Germany has the largest) the greater the shifts.  as other western countries Muslim populations grow, so will the shifts toward sharia compliance.  this is just a fact of mass immigration, no fake news required.

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20 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

how fairs snow plowing these days?  i heard there was a sharp expenditure increase lately still didn't help.  Sweden is a Feminist Country.  & 3rd wave Feminism is heavy on "Intersectionality."  which is just the new buzzword for Marxist identity politics.  representative quota demographics are at the core of that, experience & qualifications be damned.

Sweden is hopeless ...
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2476/exposed-code-291-the-swedish-police-code-to-keep-asylum-seekers-off-the-news.htm

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We all know about that anyways... but many are too damned "political correct" to tell a simple truth like mixing immigrants from different religions might possibly maybe be a bad idea if they are at war with each other somewhere else. Loads of stuff like get get in under the blanket.

You might however notice that the report is from January 2016 and that we have loads more immigrants since then with no particular increase in incidents.

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I would watch out with drawing pararells between Christian and Islam being similarly fragmented.  Christianity is much more fragmented.   This graph looks impressive but only to those that have no idea about Islam history.

Islam is 90% Sunni and while between various Sunni sects there is competition there is no division on theological level.  Wahabism is still 100% part of Sunni and is not considered non-sunni/heretic by other Sunnis and vice versa.   Read on history of Najd and where Wahhabism comes from and what it tries to accomplis and who it wants to represent.  It is political power that exists for centuries.

Other 10% is Shia, which is much more divided than Sunni and keeps together on political level mainly by being under constant threat / conflict with Sunni political powers.

 

Rest like various mystic Sufi sects, Druze, Ibadi and other less know are very small in numbers and some of them even either don't consider themself Muslim or are not considered so by Sunni&Shia. They're in modern times irrelevant when you talk in grand scheme of things (like emigration of Muslims to West/other countries). 

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I've been in Japan for a little while now (extended holiday), and I've noticed something incredible: they have very few problems with religion. In fact, I often go visiting all the shrines and temples around here, and you commonly find both Buddhist and Shinto buildings in the same park, right next to each other. There's no conflict, no hate, no protests about it (probably because it's something like 98% native Japanese out here). I can safely say it's one of the few times I've actually thought of religion as decent.

Now, comparing that to the sort of behaviour and beliefs amongst Muslims, it just makes it more and more obvious how poisonous Islam is. It's the inherent hatred in its own ideology that prevents it from being able to move beyond primitive tantrums.

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9 hours ago, drul said:

Japan has diffrent sort of scary as hell problems. Like this:

That looks like they're trying to make an actual version of Cortana from Halo.

But I've seen the dark side of Tokyo now... I watched a whole group of teens walk by a dozen unlocked bikes on an almost empty street (only me and them), and they didn't steal any of them. Not one. Something's wrong, I can feel it.

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On 12/11/2016 at 8:23 AM, Frosty said:

Sweden is hopeless ...

yeah pretty much.  once a beautiful country, but all these once beautiful places in Europe...  the days for visiting them have long past.  even the amazing architecture of Cologne Germany.  i have no desire to visit in the current climate, those good days are behind Europe now.  whether they will return?

with the Holidays just round the corner & Muslims sentiment against Christmas...  this was last holidays in Cologne:

i have heard reports they've vastly increased police presence this year for Cologne, will it be enough?  & for the rest of Europe?  the potential hotspots for violence are everywhere.

 

On 12/11/2016 at 8:23 AM, Frosty said:

 

On 12/12/2016 at 5:56 AM, Marancil said:

You might however notice that the report is from January 2016 and that we have loads more immigrants since then with no particular increase in incidents.

uh you do realize code 291 is specifically designed to prevent reporting?

what proof, other than assertion do you have that incidents have not increased in the past 10 or so months?  because in spite of code 291, i have still seen many incidents, (including the gang rape of the boy i linked to previously.)


merged posts:


the Syrian mess...

full press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebE3GJfGhfA

Saudi funded CIA op for regime change.  & most of the press in the west feeds the lie.  nice to see the smug cunt in the press pit get his ass handed to him by a panel reporter who has actually spent time all over Syria & the region of the middle east.

still the whole situation...  really disgraceful.

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I saw a report on Drudge that there was a protest by Muslims in London calling for a Caliphate. Any news from you all in UK about that?

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16 minutes ago, FundinStrongarm said:

I saw a report on Drudge that there was a protest by Muslims in London calling for a Caliphate. Any news from you all in UK about that?

Mate, they protest so fucking often, I don't even know what they're protesting for half the time.

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12 hours ago, Doro said:

That looks like they're trying to make an actual version of Cortana from Halo.

But I've seen the dark side of Tokyo now... I watched a whole group of teens walk by a dozen unlocked bikes on an almost empty street (only me and them), and they didn't steal any of them. Not one. Something's wrong, I can feel it.

Yeah.  Well mass immigration especially of groups of people that do not want to follow local laws & customs which come into clash with their own beliefs is huge problem and "multi-kulti" is gonna backfire hard.

Said that - policies like in Japan and some other countries where societies are both worked to death & having children, marriage, etc is in practical terms disencouraged is a big problem too.

Then there is incoming automatization challanges that is gonna leave millions of people without work in coming years & decades.

Mess.   There is a mess and what is scariest I don't see good solutions proposed by any poltical powers.  Even including radical or small parties. 

 

-----

As for Syria mess.   It is geopolitics at it's "finest". I don't believe there is good and bad guys there.   Just that country was changed into proxy battleground between various world & regional powers  because balance of power in Middle East (and whole world) is changing and in state of flux.

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On 12/16/2016 at 8:29 AM, FundinStrongarm said:

I saw a report on Drudge that there was a protest by Muslims in London calling for a Caliphate. Any news from you all in UK about that?

That's pretty much a daily thing, everyone is free to protest, everyone else is free to ignore them!

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25 minutes ago, Laurinaohtar said:

That's pretty much a daily thing, everyone is free to protest, everyone else is free to ignore them!

And hundreds (?) of people calling for caliphate Sharia law in central London is no biggie? And we're to believe there aren't no-go zones in certain cities in Europe?

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1 hour ago, FundinStrongarm said:

And hundreds (?) of people calling for caliphate Sharia law in central London is no biggie? And we're to believe there aren't no-go zones in certain cities in Europe?

Welcome to England. Muslims are now a majority in some parts of London, and hold sway over what happens there. And if anyone tries to object, they're labeled a racist and arrested for hate-speech, which is ironic considering all the hate Islam in the UK spreads. It doesn't help that the mayor of London is also a Muslim. We've let them into our government, so there's no hope now.

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1 hour ago, FundinStrongarm said:

And hundreds (?) of people calling for caliphate Sharia law in central London is no biggie? And we're to believe there aren't no-go zones in certain cities in Europe?

You'l also find white supremacists, anti abortion, anti gay marriage and a million other deplorable protests in London. Freedom of speech has its down sides. As I said, they are easily ignored.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

Welcome to England. Muslims are now a majority in some parts of London, and hold sway over what happens there. And if anyone tries to object, they're labeled a racist and arrested for hate-speech, which is ironic considering all the hate Islam in the UK spreads. It doesn't help that the mayor of London is also a Muslim. We've let them into our government, so there's no hope now.

This comes across as fear mongering to me.   And yes, I'm quite familiar with London.  Have the Muslims violated the rights of anyone?  Are the Muslims going through districts inflicting bodily harm and when reported, is nothing done about it?  Are you honestly telling me that someone has peacefully objected to something that the Muslim community wanted to do and was arrested for it?? Islam isn't the problem, extreme radical Islam is the problem--as is the case with most religions.  When you don't acknowledge that, you're just helping those with extreme views further their cause.

But the again, I think the world would be better off without religion so what do I know.

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