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2 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

Hot off the press: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/9-dead-suspect-arrested-as-truck-rams-into-berlin-christmas-market-1.3209698

No word on the perp or the motivation as yet but...

Maybe we just go to sleep and in the morning everything will be better.

10 minutes ago, Laurinaohtar said:

lol, wut. Fear mongering at its finest, many people protest over many crazy things, every religion, cult, community, society, nation, political affiliation, economic group, race and gender have there minority extremist groups that shout loudly but make up a very small number that can easily be ignored. People protest crazy things in London all the time, it is there right even if they are lunatics, as long as they do so peacefully. 

There are also people in the UK that would like us to discriminate based on race, far right protests happen all the time and everyone just ignores them, because they make up a small minority of extremists, same thing here.

People can protest for hate as much as they can for peace, that is the nature of free speech.

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1 minute ago, Laurinaohtar said:

peacefully

Good luck with that.

The last 50 years of history suggests there might be a few hiccups.

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1 hour ago, FundinStrongarm said:

I remember a time when nobody wanted Sharia law in the UK and certainly no protests calling for it.

Ah well, European problem to sort out I suppose. Good luck with it.

How the hell do you know that?

You presume too fucking much.

Have you asked every single muslim person in the UK about what their options are or were on the subject?

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5 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

Good luck with that.

The last 50 years of history suggests there might be a few hiccups.

the last 2000 years suggests that from every religion and nation in the world, bad shit happens, it always will.

We were discussing the right to protest changes to the law, not the right to plow a lorry into innocent people. They are clearly different things.

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2 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

Good luck with that.

The last 50 years of history suggests there might be a few hiccups.

Keep acting like terrorist acts have never been committed in the name of Christianity.

 

The Catholic Church, in particular, have committed more than just terrorist acts. Such as harbouring wanted war criminals, facilitating their escape from Nazi Germany to South America(Rat Lines), the amount of Paedophiles in the Catholic Church.

Sectarian violence between Protestants and Catholics, still happening now in Northern Ireland. But keep blaming just the one religion.

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2 minutes ago, Laurinaohtar said:

the last 2000 years suggests that from every religion and nation in the world, bad shit happens, it always will

But the discussion here is the Islamification of the UK specifically and Europe and the West in general and your assertion that these things are "easily ignored".

Like I said... Good luck with that...

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7 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

How the hell do you know that?

You presume too fucking much.

Have you asked every single muslim person in the UK about what their options are or were on the subject?

Well as Swede living in U.K. you have an added perspective (potentially) LV = do you feel the Moslem influence in Sweden has been a positive one?

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3 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

But the discussion here is the Islamification of the UK specifically and Europe and the West in general and your assertion that these things are "easily ignored".

Like I said... Good luck with that...

There is no Islamification of the UK or Europe. I know of not one single person who has ever converted to Islam, and every Muslim I know I like.

Minority extremist groups are not the majority.

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2 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

Well as Swede living in U.K. you have an added perspective (potentially) LV = do you feel the Moslem influence in Sweden has been a positive one?

No religion has ever had a positive influence anywhere.

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1 minute ago, LordVorontur said:

No religion has ever had a positive influence anywhere.

Yikes!

Did I read "hyperbole" somewhere in this thread?

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1 minute ago, Laurinaohtar said:

There is no Islamification of the UK or Europe. I know of not one single person who has ever converted to Islam, and every Muslim I know I like.

Minority extremist groups are not the majority.

I have to agree every Muslim I have met has been nice and friendly.  

Also living in the West Coast of Scotland, I have seen first hand what Christianity is like.  The issues with Catholics and Protestants is alive and still causing issues and they are fighting over something that happened hundreds of years ago.

Lets not forget how many people die each year in acts of terrorism that have nothing to do with Islam.

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15 minutes ago, fittybolger said:

Yikes!

Did I read "hyperbole" somewhere in this thread?

Until I see evidence of the opposite, my opinion regarding all religions remain the same.

But please, feel free to provide evidence of the positive influence that religion has had upon the world.

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1 hour ago, LordVorontur said:

Until I see evidence of the opposite, my opinion regarding all religions remain the same.

But please, feel free to provide evidence of the positive influence that religion has had upon the world.

 

1 hour ago, LordVorontur said:

No religion has ever had a positive influence anywhere.

hith-sistine-chape.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's easy...

How do we do the bolded part without science?

Likewise, that one verse has been the driving factor behind the scientific for most of the Renaissance, and for that matter, most of human history.  We're trying to reverse engineer what God has created, and understand how the universe works.

I said evidence, not fiction.

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2 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Hmm... a closed mind on the matter...

Let me ask you this, why were so many of the historical European scientists Christians?

You are quoting from the Bible and use it as evidence of positive influence.

I say, quoting from a book of fiction is like me saying Eru exists because the Silmarillion states that he does.

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4 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

You are quoting from the Bible and use it as evidence of positive influence.

I say, quoting from a book of fiction is like me saying Eru exists because the Silmarillion states that he does.

^^this.  so much, this!

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26 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

You are quoting from the Bible and use it as evidence of positive influence.

I say, quoting from a book of fiction is like me saying Eru exists because the Silmarillion states that he does.

I answered with the Sistine Chapel as that image should be enough to demonstrate the scope of positive influence. I didn't reply with more as you are obviously not open to any information contrary to your views and to answer more would constitute "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you" Mathew 7 vs.6. Or, to put it in more modern terms, "don't feed the trolls".

But... to state the obvious... and, I believe, have it disregarded...

To state that religion has had absolutely zero positive influence is the equivalent of saying human progress and civilization has had absolutely zero positive influence as the two are inextricably tied together. In my opinion your statement is pure atheist dogma and made without thoughtful consideration. It provides zero positive influence and is unworthy of you.

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1 hour ago, LordVorontur said:

You are quoting from the Bible and use it as evidence of positive influence.

I say, quoting from a book of fiction is like me saying Eru exists because the Silmarillion states that he does.

OK... expanding on my reply above... I'll get personal which is something I don't like to do online... the whole "pearls before swine" thing is part of that but only part.

I recall you posting in the past, LV, that you worked for a sort of public advocacy organization that helped people navigate the maze which is the modern social safety net of government programs. Generally this sort of occupation is underfunded and overworked but has some personal rewards associated with it beyond the weekly paycheque.

We may have similar clientele...

My background is I am a retired programmer, systems analyst and IT consultant... but... as I am typing this I have another tab open where
I am researching a Bible study course outline. This is new and uncertain territory for me and I will be reaching out to people from a wide variety of needs from drug/alcohol abuse, psychological and physical challenges. Let me say I have not had much experience with this element of society other than driving through the neighborhoods without stopping and giving donations to the Salvation Army... until recently. I really don't know what to expect or even what goals to set other than to "help". THIS sort of thing is the very marrow of Christianity and NOT the Inquisitions and power struggles your belief system would have you focus on. Look at the imperfect and uncertain Christian individuals trying to find their way in the darkness of this world by Faith rather than lumping the whole thing into an organized corporate entity.

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the Islamic London protest was in front of the Syrian embassy, consider it a bit of theater given the larger developments.  call for Caliphate & the usual incoherent rhetoric aside; it managed to go off without violence...  i find it more curious how so many assembled in such organized fashion, how was it coordinated?  regardless, it was for show regarding recent developments in Syria.

that said...

- an assassination in Turkey.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/russias-ambassador-turkey-shot-assassination-attempt1/

- Truck violence in Germany killing (the latest is12),  injuring dozens more.  already linked above, but Polish vehicle hijacked by Pakistani immigrant & ISIS already claiming responsibility.

- mysterious bus fires in Sweden.

- public mall Christmas tree vandalized in Italy.

- Paris streets become garbage filled ghettos.

nothing to see here folks, just head home & be safe & avoid displaying Christmas decorations, or national flags, or any signs of European culture that might provoke.

i am sure importing more migrants won't make things even worse...

everything is completely normal.

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16 hours ago, Papi said:

This comes across as fear mongering to me.   And yes, I'm quite familiar with London.  Have the Muslims violated the rights of anyone?  Are the Muslims going through districts inflicting bodily harm and when reported, is nothing done about it?  Are you honestly telling me that someone has peacefully objected to something that the Muslim community wanted to do and was arrested for it?? Islam isn't the problem, extreme radical Islam is the problem--as is the case with most religions.  When you don't acknowledge that, you're just helping those with extreme views further their cause.

But the again, I think the world would be better off without religion so what do I know.

It would come across like that if you didn't know any better, sure. But for those of us who actually have to live with it, it's the reality around us.

Yes, Muslims have violated the rights of non-Muslims. From attacking people in the streets that they don't like (homosexuals, for example), to getting violent for people asking for pork products in their own food. There have even been cases of people in pubs getting attacked, and people coming back from nightclubs getting attacked. The so called "Sharia patrols" are the usual culprits, but many young Muslims are also to blame.

Yes, they've attacked people and nothing was done about it. There was that case recently where a girl was kicked repeatedly in the head by a gang of Muslim girls, who all got given suspended sentences because they were drunk and "not used to it".

Yes, there have been cases where people have peacefully protested, but were arrested themselves when the Muslims started getting violent. Police claimed it was for their own protection, but it was clear they just didn't want to have do deal with trying to arrest so many Muslims when a few protesters were the easier target.

The problem with "extreme radical Islam" is that there really isn't much difference between that and regular Islam. It's inherently extreme. Often, those Muslims who say terrorism has nothing to do with Islam are also the same people who want a caliphate in the UK, and sympathise with the aims of terrorists. They're the ones who want halal only in restaurants and supermarkets, or want the Islamic prayer blasted out of loud speakers half a dozen times a day. They want Islam to be the dominant religion. And it's those "Muslims" who has assimilated, who don't care about what food they eat, or what they wear, or what direction they face to pray, who are so often held up as the reasonable majority, when they unfortunately aren't.

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In the words of the great philosophers Rick & Morty."Nobody belongs anywhere, nobody exists on purpose, everybodys going to die. Now lets go watch TV"

 

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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's kinda the thing with most Christians... or at least the ones that ACTUALLY know and understand Jesus' teachings, and attempt follow them...

Out of morbid curiosity, what exactly is it that Jesus taught that was so groundbreaking? Morally speaking, that is.

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3 hours ago, Doro said:

Out of morbid curiosity, what exactly is it that Jesus taught that was so groundbreaking? Morally speaking, that is.

haha... "morbid".

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15 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

- Truck violence in Germany killing (the latest is12),  injuring dozens more.  already linked above, but Polish vehicle hijacked by Pakistani immigrant & ISIS already claiming responsibility.

 

Current reports suggest that the man arrested last night might not be involved and that the perpetrator may still be at large and also be armed.  Too many people had him guilty before any information was released.  People need to wait and see what comes of the police investigation before blaming anyone for this.  Stop jumping to conclusions

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