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Bullroarer U16 Notes

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I cringe at the thought that I have to get a PhP in LI mechanics *again* after this change. I just wanna play and have level-adequate equipment earned through *gameplay*, as opposed to messing around in a bad UI.

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I cringe at the thought that I have to get a PhP in LI mechanics *again* after this change. I just wanna play and have level-adequate equipment earned through *gameplay*, as opposed to messing around in a bad UI.

 

This. Turbine have already demonstrated that they can't do balance or complicated. Right now I am playing Lotro to see what they do with ME, everything else, itemisation, advancement, end game, PvMp, pets, festivals, deeds and traits I'm basically just ignoring. It's all so broken now.

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Right now I am playing Lotro to see what they do with ME...

Ah... planning on being a witness in the trial when Turbine get caught for murdering LotR, I see.

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This. Turbine have already demonstrated that they can't do balance or complicated. Right now I am playing Lotro to see what they do with ME, everything else, itemisation, advancement, end game, PvMp, pets, festivals, deeds and traits I'm basically just ignoring. It's all so broken now.

 

Complicated they can do.   Complex, yet useable - not so much.   Overly complicated systems that fail to deliver what they promise - far too often.

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Ah... planning on being a witness in the trial when Turbine get caught for murdering LotR, I see.

 

It's like the worst possible car crash, I just can't look away

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This. Turbine have already demonstrated that they can't do balance or complicated.

 

I disagree.

I am of the opinion that what they have demonstrated is that they are unable or unwilling, or both, to think things through and consider side-effects and consequences properly.

Bonus points for outright ignoring it when players point it possible side-effects and likely consequences.

 

Time and again they have presented ideas that sound reasonable, then not said anything for the better part of its concept and development stages, then thrown a completely brain-dead (and, of course, broken) version to Bullroarer, and continued to ignore the glaringly obvious, namely that the reasonable ideas have been mashed to pulp in whatever process they work with and pushed it forward, anyway.

 

SNy

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Er... you basically agreed!

 

Uhm, only in a very narrow sense.

They haven't demonstrated that they CAN'T do those two things you said they couldn't do. They have demonstrated that they can't be arsed, which I consider something different. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

 

SNy

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For some reason I can't use the quote function, I moved to another computer at work so it may be due to the backdoor IE browser I have to use, but anyway.....

 

@ Elrantiri- Judging by the pic of the 2 hander the Cossie posted I'd say no to changing passives, + max power ewwwwww

 

@ Thrabath- I didn't waste any time actually putting IXP into my dagger, and again judging by the pic Cossie posted I don't see a huge boost, less than 20 more DPS.....meh. Seems like a huge waste of time and IXP runes.

 

I wonder how long it will be until we are forced into using this system?

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Those legacies look extremely overpowered compared to what we have now. Dare I ask if they have tweaked the level 100 landscape mobs to take into account these new LI changes?

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Those legacies look extremely overpowered compared to what we have now. Dare I ask if they have tweaked the level 100 landscape mobs to take into account these new LI changes?

 

I didn't have any trouble, just using my regular 3rd-agers, maxxed but not imbued,  with crap relics and none of the star-lit stuff.  My gear isn't anything special either.  

 

But they may do that in a future beta build.  I'll be sitting things out now until this new update goes on sale (i mean reduced price sale, not just when it's available in the store), so I won't be back on Bullroarer to check if they do.

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Some highlights:

Sounds as if there will be no further LI Symbols. Lvl 100 Symbols will be the last. This would mean that if there is any further "level" progress players will need to swap to Imbuing to keep-up

 

You will be able to swap Legacies on Imbued LI's without Mithril Coins. There is a new Scroll being added to loot tables and presumably to the Store.

 

More places to acquire LI items, SoE, Delving, Crystals, etc. are being added to the game. Drop Rates are being looked at but will likely not be increased for U16.

 

The new PvMP map is apparently in the game database, but they won't comment until after U16

 

U16 is still a ways off from release

 

We should have a full list of Legacy changes in the Beta 2 build due tomorrow

 

The new Instances are scaled from Level 50

 

 

There was more but that's what I recall off the top of my head with one listen.

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Sounds as if there will be no further LI Symbols. Lvl 100 Symbols will be the last. This would mean that if there is any further "level" progress players will need to swap to Imbuing to keep-up

 

On one hand I would say its a good thing I have a level 100 first age bow then. On the other hand I'm really not sure if I'll ever play through any new content again.

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Another interesting thing mentioned, but I'll have to re-listen to be sure how it was actually stated:

 

It sounded like they said that in the end 1st/2nd/3rd Age LI's will all be of the same power, the amount of work to max it out will be the only difference.

 

Again I have to re-listen to be sure that is what they were actually saying.

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Another interesting thing mentioned, but I'll have to re-listen to be sure how it was actually stated:

 

It sounded like they said that in the end 1st/2nd/3rd Age LI's will all be of the same power, the amount of work to max it out will be the only difference.

 

Again I have to re-listen to be sure that is what they were actually saying.

 

That's... rather stupid. Sinking ship and everything, yeah?

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Ahh good an edited transcription:

 

 

Devs would like to re-iterate that this is Beta. Nothing with the system is finalized. They wanted to get the release on Bullroarer as soon as possible to get it in our hands so we could play around with it and give them feedback. There is much tweaking that still needs to go in to the design before a final release.
 
The below transcript is a summary of my notes, if there are any discrepencies between what was said on Twitch by Frelorn or Jinjaah and what I typed ... Theirs is accurate !
 
1) Can you post all the legacy changes?
 
- Yes. This will be posted on the forums soon.
 
2) Will the new system be available for LIs level 45-99?
 
- This is a possibility. All efforts are currently focused on this being released for level 100.
 
3) Cost of the new system, will it be adjusted?
 
- Feedback has been recieved about the "costs" of the various items; Scrolls of Empowerment, Star-lit Crystals, IXP, Mithril Coins, etc. All of these things are being discussed and there may be changes coming; nothing is set in stone.
 
4) Tiers - starting levels, soft cap, hard cap.
 
- This is all up for discussion. We are receiving feedback and nothing is set in stone.
 
5) What will the future look like for Imbued Items?
 
- They will be with you for as long as you want. The idea is that with new content (updates) the soft cap and/or hard cap will increase.
 
6) Guardian AoE Targets, will there be a change?
 
- Likely there will be an increase.
 
7) Hunter Targets, will there be a change?
 
- Likely there will be.
 
8) Legacies, any chance of re-looking at the ones that changed?
 
- Yes, we want your feedback. Be specific and constructive.
 
9) Will cosmetics be released for our new LIs?
 
- This is possible for a future update. We like the idea, but are not sure how it will prioritize.
 
10) LMs - Issues with passives and DPS.
 
- Give us specific feedback and we will look at it.
 
11) Lag issues with some skill effects (i.e. LM fire), will this be fixed?
 
- This is a known issue and they are working on it. Likely not a U16 fix.
 
12) We are VERY skeptical of the Devs listening to our feedback and making changes ...
 
- Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance 
 
13) Will Crystals of Remembrance, Anfalas Star-lit Crystals, etc. have a drop rate increase? 
 
- Yes !!! You will see these dropping in the next build in places like the Epic, New Instances, etc. So the ways to achieve them will increase but we are still debating the drop frequency.
 
14) How big of a difference will there be between 3rd, 2nd, and 1st Age with the new system?
 
- Essentially a 3rd and 2nd Age will be able to be equal to a FA but it will cost more time an effort.
 
15) Will there be tutorials or tool tips for the new system?
 
- Yes, we are working that. Also, Jinjaah is working on a Dev Diary.
 
16) Will everything you do to a pre-imbued FA be equal to doing it to a post imbued FA? Example, applying Star-lits?
 
- Yes.
 
17) If a level cap increase happens will the new LI scale?
 
- Yes.
 
18) Will itemization be fixed for instances?
 
- Yes. We are working on differentiating T1, T2, and T2C with the new instance cluster. These changes will happen slowly ... We do not want to accidentally drastically alter the system.
 
19) Guardian Force Taunt duration, will it change?
 
- We are looking at increasing the duration of all Force Taunts passively for all classes that use it. It is on our radar.
 
20) Scaled Freeps will not have access to LIs (like BB jewellery), will adjustments be made to make it equivalent?
 
- Yes, this is being worked on. PvP in general is being worked on.
 
21) Will there ever be a level cap increase again?
 
- No idea. We will see how things progress.
 
22) Can you imbue more than one LI?
 
- Yes, as many as you want.
 
23) How will passive stats be adjusted on LIs?
 
- It is in discussion. There is a bug with how this changes and we are looking in to it.
 
24) Could a yellow-line Mini get an in combat rez?
 
- Not this update, but it is a possibility for a future update.
 
25) Bridles, can they be imbued?
 
- Not with U16.
 
26) Is there a point to setting loot quality in a level 20 instance to Epic?
 
- Not sure, would need to check data.
 
27) Any word on adding more Beorning crafted gear?
 
- Yes, it was planned for 16 but did not make it in. It is coming. Also improvements to essence gear etc.
 
28) Any plans to do trait trees for Creeps?
 
- No. But there will be an audit done all Creep traits and changes be made to better reflect the current state of the game. In fact, Creep love is coming ...
 
29) Could legacy tiers be retroactively adjusted?
 
- Possibly.
 
30) Any plans for Creep scaling to balance the new Freep stuff?
 
- Yes. This is in the plans and we want feedback during the various Beta builds. Be as specific as possible, comparable data is useful. Go on live servers and fight it out, then go to Bullroarer and do the same with the changes. Give us comparisons. Give us data !!! Might even set up a PvP night with the Devs ...
 
31) Non-imbued gear can be swapped in and out with imbued gear and get passive bonuses. Will this be fixed?
 
- Yes, we are working on it. But we do not want to restrict people from weapon swapping.
 
32) When will the Inspired Greatness exploit be fixed?
 
- It is being worked on.
 
33) Level 100 craft recipes ... Any news? 
 
- Yes, but not with U16.
 
34) After imbuing will we be able to change legacies without using MC?
 
- Yes. There will be Imbued Legacy Replacement Scrolls. You will see this in a future build. Likely in loot tables and/or given out via quest arcs.
 
35) Is the Burgs new Purge Corruption Damage legacy staying?
 
- Give us feedback on this legacy.
 
36) Mini's Rally CD?
 
- It is a bug and it has been fixed. It will be in the build tomorrow.
 
37) PvP Lag
 
- We know it exists. We are working on it. This is one of the reasons why we are looking at the new area. New servers, new data centre, etc. will all improve this.
 
38) What level range will the new instances be?
 
- Scaleable from 50+
 
39) What are your thoughts on Fellowship Maneuveurs?
 
- They need love. It is on the list.
 
40) Something about an LM bug.
 
- Send in a bug report.
 
41) Guardian Light Damage legacy seems useless ...
 
- Possibly. Give us feedback.
 
42) Will there be an Intro Stream for U16?
 
- Yes, working on it.
 
43) There are a lot of legacies that did not fall in the category of ones like CDs, why did they get replaced?
 
- We want feedback. Give us specifics.
 
44) Can the one-shotters bug in the Moors be fixed for U16?
 
- We think we have a solution. It is being worked on.
 
45) New PvMP map, will you be using the same set of building sets?
 
- To be determined.
 
46) Any updates on the Player's Council?
 
- WOW, lots of applicants !!! More news nearing the end of the month.
 
47) Any chance of a specific class set of feedback threads?
 
- Yes. But then please stick to them 
 
48) Why have Guards become more DPS oriented (seems since trait trees)?
 
- Still feel that Guards are one of the best tanks in the game but we wanted to give options. 
 
49) Do you know about the Creeps being able to get in to Grams?
 
Yes. We are working on it.
 
50) Are there any changes to the Mac client to fix stability?
 
- Yes, but keep giving us specific examples/data.
 
51) Will there be a character base wipe with Beta 2?
 
- Maybe.
 
 
The next build (Build 2) for Bullroarer will be tomorrow (Friday). There will be some minor changes, but major changes based on feedback will be in a future build. It is too soon to get them out. We are weeks away from Live ... we did this on purpose to get your feedback and work it in before launch.
 
Frelorn / Jinjaah: If I missed anything, or have anything above incorrect please let me know and I will correct it. Thank you for this, I know it has set me at ease with a number of issues with the new LIs 

That's... rather stupid. Sinking ship and everything, yeah?

 

I don't think so really. I actually think it's a good idea in many ways.

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I don't think so really. I actually think it's a good idea in many ways.

 

For the current state of the game - I can see your point. From a general game design perspective - I really don't like it. FA weapons don't just require grinding time to get, they also require being in a group (typically a raid but I think they drop from 6 man big battles). It also just screams homogeneous design and that's just boring. I guess I'm also having flashbacks to the times when having a first age was something to be proud of. On the flip side of the coin: if they want items to be truly legendary and that we keep them forever I guess it makes sense for each aged weapon to be on the same playing field in the end. 

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I don't think so really. I actually think it's a good idea in many ways.

It's not a terrible idea, but it's too late. Also FA weapons were the ultimate aspiration, getting rid of those means we are left with ... more ixp? Boring.

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For the current state of the game - I can see your point. From a general game design perspective - I really don't like it. FA weapons don't just require grinding time to get, they also require being in a group (typically a raid but I think they drop from 6 man big battles). It also just screams homogeneous design and that's just boring. I guess I'm also having flashbacks to the times when having a first age was something to be proud of. On the flip side of the coin: if they want items to be truly legendary and that we keep them forever I guess it makes sense for each aged weapon to be on the same playing field in the end. 

 

I think that's one of the main things that have to be taken into consideration when looking at the changes they do, the current state of the game. It's a niche game with a smallish playerbase that is mainstream casual.

 

If you really look at the system the people who get the easiest enjoyable overall experience with Imbuing are those who don't stress over Maxed out LI's, especially if they don't care if it's maxed out immediately.. The Store isn't needed, the LI will continue to improve as they play and later as Level 100 1st Age Symbols become harder to get they won't get shut out just because no one wants to run that content. This fits perfect for LotRO.

 

The System over all looks in really good shape, actually the best they've implemented in as long as I can remember. Honestly the System looks good for all levels of play to me. If you have a maxed out 1st Age now, you'll be ahead of the curve, which you should be.

 

At the moment I really can't think of a honestly good reason to put Imbuement down, except that it should have covered all LI's and even that is probably coming.

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It's not a terrible idea, but it's too late. Also FA weapons were the ultimate aspiration, getting rid of those means we are left with ... more ixp? Boring.

 

Well I agree it's to late, if one is still holding onto the past. But really, there isn't anything they can do about the past at this point. All they can do is look where they are and design for that.

 

The System opens up many possibilities for more than ixp grinds. Will they be utilized, who knows, even money says not, but they could.

 

To take a 3rd Age and max it out is going to require quite a bit more than just grinding IXP, lol.

 

But again those pining for the old LotRO aren't going to be happy with anything they do, because it is to late and those days are gone, well that is if you ever felt they were here ever, which is debatable.

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To take a 3rd Age and max it out is going to require quite a bit more than just grinding IXP, lol.

What are the other grinds involved? I've only read patch notes, blogs and whats posted here so have no idea. So far though it seems like same old LI system but without swapping LIs.

Say I level 75 - 85, I get 60 levels on my LI and then get a new one at level 85 and gain 60 more levels on my new one. New system, I don't need to get a new LI at level 85 but I will need to gain those levels. Whats the difference?

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What are the other grinds involved? I've only read patch notes, blogs and whats posted here so have no idea. So far though it seems like same old LI system but without swapping LIs.

Say I level 75 - 85, I get 60 levels on my LI and then get a new one at level 85 and gain 60 more levels on my new one. New system, I don't need to get a new LI at level 85 but I will need to gain those levels. Whats the difference?

 

I don't claim to know the details, but were I still playing, the difference for me would obviously be that a re-grind of basically the very same LI, only 5(10) levels higher wouldn't be necessary.

Along with hoping for the passives (which, as I understand, they STILL haven't dealt with, of particularly cringeworthy-ness is the "give us feedback") and of course hoping that the newer item will look cooler, or at least not worse.

 

As for IXP, I can't remember the amount of IXP pills I had in my vault but it was of such a magnitude as to laugh about the phrase "IXP grind".

 

SNy

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What are the other grinds involved? I've only read patch notes, blogs and whats posted here so have no idea. So far though it seems like same old LI system but without swapping LIs.

Say I level 75 - 85, I get 60 levels on my LI and then get a new one at level 85 and gain 60 more levels on my new one. New system, I don't need to get a new LI at level 85 but I will need to gain those levels. Whats the difference?

 

I think I'm not completely understanding the question, so if this doesn't apply please dumb it down for an old man :)

 

There are 2 ways that the System will effect players, depending on if they currently have a level 100 LI or come into the System later, and if they do have a level 100 LI how far along it is to maxed out.

 

I'll use the Maxed LI and the coming into the System later as examples, the other can be extrapolated.

 

Coming into the System new:

Only 3 Legacies so will want 4 Crystals of Remembrance, will want to Scroll of Delving before Imbuing, will need IXP. Will also want Scrolls of Empowerment as they hit the Soft Cap to open up additional Hard Cap Tiers. Will want Star-Lit Crystals to upgrade DPS.

 

Having a Maxed LI:

 

Will want Scrolls of Empowerment to hit max Legacy Tier, 7 per Legacy plus IXP. May want new Scrolls to change Legacies depending on exactly what changes.

 

 

After cap is reached and if they add say another 5 Legacy Tiers you'll need 5 SoE's per Legacy plus IXP, likely a Star-Lit to up DPS and Passives. No function currently for anything beyond 1 Delving or CoR but that still may change.

 

The grind is all still there, it's hidden a bit more because you aren't deconstructing the old LI and starting fresh. For quite a while now if you were raiding you never used anything but 1st Agers. When the level increased the old 1st Age would see you through until you got the drop thanks to 1st Ages in T1's. I can't remember the last time I actually used a 2nd age except as some off spec landscape weapon, and whens the last time an end-game player used a 3rd age, lol.

Keep in mind the above is considering keeping a LI at the same approximate age power level. To take a 2nd or 3rd age to 1st age power levels is much more resource intensive.

 

Again if I didn't understand the question, let me know.

...

 

As for IXP, I can't remember the amount of IXP pills I had in my vault but it was of such a magnitude as to laugh about the phrase "IXP grind".

 

SNy

 

LOL, yea me too

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