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It's the exactly the same principle of Turbine taking away a player's preferred style of gameplay for the sake of a few bucks. And just because you don't enjoy being a completionist, it doesn't make i

I know you can't read, but the word 'or' means an option, not both. So no, grinding isn't only the domain of boring content, it's repetitive, which I've said all along.

Yeah, but the original post specifically states SoA Trollshaws so the revamp isn't really relevant?

I agree with Bel, imbuement is for the OCD players that MUST have EVERYTHING maxed, regardless if the improvement is minimal at best.

 

Do you really need maxed out gear for a game you can auto attack through?

Nah, but I can see it being a kick in the teeth for people. Their preferred gameplay was maxing out their characters. Now Turbine has increased that grind drastically (with the Store in mind, obviously) and those same people are being told to just suck it up and either stop doing what they liked doing or deal with the grind. Which is bollocks, to be fair. It's like when I used to collect horses and then Turbine flooded the Store with them so I couldn't complete my collection. I'd have kicked right off if some cock started saying it was my problem Turbine had fucked up one of the few things I enjoyed about the game.

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I don't play quote wars, sorry. Not into nitpicking walls of text. Skimmed your post.

You mean you don't like being challenged. You made too many points that needed to be corrected, hence the division of quotes.

 

I will address this moronic little straw man though: "And just because you don't enjoy being a completionist, it doesn't make it irrational."

 

I never said or implied that being a completionist is irrational because I (no longer) enjoy doing so.

 

I said - very clearly, even in what you quoted - that in a computer game, grinding out stuff that one does not enjoy is irrational. "It's not fun. I hate this. So boring. But I'm going to do it anyway because I want the reward at the end" That's not just irrational, that's skinner box level stupid.

You're just trying to insult completionists by calling them 'irrational OCD types'. And, as I said, just because you don't enjoy it, doesn't make it irrational. 

As I said, I enjoyed playing my captain as a completionist. I did so for a long time. I'm not irrational. So I stopped doing so when that was no longer fun. It's just that simple. I could have continued to play him as a completionist even though it wasn't fun. That would not be rational.

Great, so you've decided your level is the rational position. And when people complain that their playstyle of completionist has been ruined, you call them irrational. I don't recall anyone here saying they'll still try to max everything out now. Only that they're annoyed by the fact that Turbine has ruined it for them. A point you fail to grasp.

 

At the end of the day, it's also clear we have different concepts of "grind"

 

If I enjoy something, and am patient - it's not a grind. It doesn't matter how long it takes. My captain mostly soloed all the mirror instance deeds. Got the Eriador rep deed. Limlight kindred was easy on multiple characters. None of that felt like a grind because I wasn't irrationally impatient to get it done. My hunter even completed the trollshaws crawler deed in SoA with ZERO grinding, just by taking his time questing, travelling, and killing every one he came across.

A grind is any repetitive gameplay that is required to achieve a goal. Your enjoyment of it doesn't change that. But sure, keep up with the whole 'only irrational people grind' argument.

 

My auto attacking champ is levelling ridiculously slowly compared to the rate "normal" characters do now. My experience playing him has involved literally ZERO "grind"

Because you're the norm.

 

After recently testing imbuement on my 100 champ, I faceroll a quick school. Took minutes. Was already bored by the end of it. If I had run it even a second time, it would have felt like a "grind" even though the time was minimal.

How is this even remotely relevant? A grind is a grind. The problem is when the grind does not match the reward anymore. People who used to enjoy being completionists have had that taken away from them because Turbine have included yet another grind for the sake of the Store. Which you are now acting like they have no valid argument against because they liked the old grind. Keep on track. 

Or how about a real life for example. I hope to add 30kg to my deadlift PR by the end of the year. I hope to add another 30kg by the end of 2018. That's slow gradual progress week to week because I'm not a novice. It's a grind for sure. But I'm massively enjoying it, in part because I'm truly enjoying the process and not irrationally impatiently fixated on a distant goal.

Entirely unconnected.

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A grind is any repetitive gameplay that is required to achieve a goal. Your enjoyment of it doesn't change that. But sure, keep up with the whole 'only irrational people grind' argument.

 

I think a grind is better defined as repetitive gameplay that is experienced as boring/repetitive. Getting the complete Rift-gear set on lvl 50 should have taken on average 12 complete runs. That is repetitive but I think only a small part of the raiding population would call it a grind.

 

And I think this makes discussing about what is a grind a what isn't a grind very difficult. Because I think it's more an opinion than a fact to declare something a grind.

 

For example:

If doing all instances in LotRO one time succesfully at T2 would give you enough marks to max out an Imbued LI not many would declare this an enormous grind. If doing Sambrog 50 times gives the same amount of marks, many would say it's a reasonable long grind. And maybe the reward would be the same.

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Because you're the norm.

 

hey, we all have had to auto-attack something at some point...  to advance an unfinished parry/evade skill/deed/trait...  even if an appropriate level craban was unavailable and we had to sit in front of an training dummy auto-attacking.  ;)

 

thrilling stuff, that.  7(8)7

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...

My very obvious point (but sadly not obvious enough for some slackwits) is that if person A does not enjoy playing content BY PERSON A'S OWN FUCKING STANDARDS OF WHAT PERSON A ENJOYS, YOU IMBECILE (hopefully that's obvious enough now?) - but continues to play it - then yes, person A is is acting utterly irrationally.

 

My original post on this subject was in response to someone complaining about all the boring sambrog runs he now had in store, so no, your willing ignorance in failing to "recall" this doesn't mean it didn't happen - it's simply a point you fail to grasp. 

 

Try to resist your OCD temptations to split your reply to this post into a pointless 87 different quotes. I guarantee I won't read it. And I sure as hell won't waste my time replying to you again. Better yet, please don't reply at all.

 

Doro is most definitely NOT a slackwit, an IMBECILE, or OCD.  

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Great, another straw man. You're an idiot, or a troll, or both.

Says the prick setting up scarecrows like it's going out of fashion.

 

I never said MY standard of what is enjoyable should apply to anyone else.

No, just your standard of what is and isn't acceptable to complain about. Since you don't care, everyone who does must be an irrational OCD whiner.

 

My very obvious point (but sadly not obvious enough for some slackwits) is that if person A does not enjoy playing content BY PERSON A'S OWN FUCKING STANDARDS OF WHAT PERSON A ENJOYS, YOU IMBECILE (hopefully that's obvious enough now?) - but continues to play it - then yes, person A is is acting utterly irrationally.

And who here has said that? What you fail to understand is that your 'point' is completely redundant when the reason people complain about it isn't to keep doing it, it's because they can no longer be completionists. Understand, son?

 

My original post on this subject was in response to someone complaining about all the boring sambrog runs he now had in store, so no, your willing ignorance in failing to "recall" this doesn't mean it didn't happen - it's simply a point you fail to grasp.

Do you understand English? Look at what he said again:

As a completionist, I am not happy that my alts, whether they need them or not, will never have maxed out LIs. I don't have the time or the drive. The grind is boring enough to get one character's LI maxed out. Sambrog over and over and over : (

I bolded the parts to make it easier for you. He's clearly saying he WON'T be grinding to kit out his alts. He's saying grinding Sambrog is enough for one character maxing out. But no, you misread it and then made that retardedly vitriolic post in response to something he didn't even say. And since then you've been trying to argue against a position no one here is holding.

 

Try to resist your OCD temptations to split your reply to this post into a pointless 87 different quotes. I guarantee I won't read it. And I sure as hell won't waste my time replying to you again. Better yet, please don't reply at all.

I get that you're a moron. But my division of posts is here to help you. But sure, if you want to run away because someone actually pulled you up on your bullshit, go ahead. I'll be here if you ever grow a spine.
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My hunter even completed the trollshaws crawler deed in SoA with ZERO grinding, just by taking his time questing, travelling, and killing every one he came across.

 

I am soooo calling BS on that.

 

As for the rest, while I found the auto-attack thread very intriguing and you deserving of some props, I feel you might want to stop with the superiority attitude. Especially the follow-up posts to the one I quoted there, they make you look like a fool.

 

SNy

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I think a grind is better defined as repetitive gameplay that is experienced as boring/repetitive.

  

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)

It's basically doing the same thing multiple times for a desired goal. Enjoying it or not is irrelevant in the actual process of it being a grind.

It's true that both definitions are used, but I have to say the first definition makes more sense to me. The second seems overly broad. What activities in an MMO do you typically do only once? Levelling quests, I suppose, but even they are repetitive in a certain sense (you do many very similar, but not identical, quests).

"Grinding" seems to have a negative connotation to most people, meaning the repetition is excessive and/or the activity itself is not enjoyable.

The second definition would include a lot of things that are repetitive, but that I think most people would not consider "grinding".

For instance, if my raid team is progressing on a boss, we may have to make many attempts - perhaps 100 or more - before we kill it. Certainly fits the label of "repetitive". But since that is what we play the game for, and what we enjoy, I wouldn't call it a grind.

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It's true that both definitions are used, but I have to say the first definition makes more sense to me. The second seems overly broad. What activities in an MMO do you typically do only once? Levelling quests, I suppose, but even they are repetitive in a certain sense (you do many very similar, but not identical, quests).

"Grinding" seems to have a negative connotation to most people, meaning the repetition is excessive and/or the activity itself is not enjoyable.

The second definition would include a lot of things that are repetitive, but that I think most people would not consider "grinding".

For instance, if my raid team is progressing on a boss, we may have to make many attempts - perhaps 100 or more - before we kill it. Certainly fits the label of "repetitive". But since that is what we play the game for, and what we enjoy, I wouldn't call it a grind.

Well, I can't find a single source that shows 'grinding' is dependant on subjective enjoyment of the task. Only about its repetitive nature. There are tedious grinds, there are enjoyable grinds. But it's still all a grind.

On a related note, do not search 'grinding' into Google without safesearch on...

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I am soooo calling BS on that.

 

As for the rest, while I found the auto-attack thread very intriguing and you deserving of some props, I feel you might want to stop with the superiority attitude. Especially the follow-up posts to the one I quoted there, they make you look like a fool.

 

SNy

 

They added a lot more crawlers into Trollshaws with its revamp.  It's entirely possible if, and only if, you take your time doing stuff there.  I just ran a hunter of mine through there and I got quite a few crawler kills.  I wasn't trying to take my time though.  It was all purely complete this quest, harvest lebethron, kill stuff that I see, move along.  I completed all the quests except the spider/troll area because I was excited to get my LIs and do questing in Eregion at 45.

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They added a lot more crawlers into Trollshaws with its revamp.  It's entirely possible if, and only if, you take your time doing stuff there.  I just ran a hunter of mine through there and I got quite a few crawler kills.  I wasn't trying to take my time though.  It was all purely complete this quest, harvest lebethron, kill stuff that I see, move along.  I completed all the quests except the spider/troll area because I was excited to get my LIs and do questing in Eregion at 45.

 

Yeah, but the original post specifically states SoA Trollshaws so the revamp isn't really relevant?

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When reading this topic I only more realise how bad LotRO has become. They really should have left the lvl Cap at 50. Far more easier to keep everything balanced and content never gets outlvl-ed

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