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2015 Player Councils announced


warspeech
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​Fuck, I was busy buying biscuits.

Serious discussion is happening and you are out buying hob nobs? Apparently PC 2014 all hate each other and... No nda breaks make this so uninteresting, someone take doro up on his offer. 

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​There were folks with whom the butt-hurtery was strong, who wanted to tell others how they should post or what they should/shouldn't even discuss, and other folks who could actually discuss, disagree, and be constructive. The last half of the PC was much better between the council members themselves which, rightly or wrongly (you make your own decisions), I attribute to lack of Sapience "involvement". I think the council could've been much more effective than it was, but I also don't think Frelorn quite knew what to do with us or was comfortable using us in the way the council was intended. I felt we were the red-headed stepchildren from that point on.

Stickeez, I think it's the interaction of the council and Turbine, or style and lack thereof in communication, that is the real reason the NDA hasn't been lifted. I think they'd rather just brush us under the rug with the rest of the dirt and be done.

Beanie, you seem to have lots to say, so please tell me why you werent' invited back.

 

Stickeez, you seem to be talkative to, so is the rumor true, were you kicked off palantir for violating the NDA?

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Beanie, you seem to have lots to say, so please tell me why you werent' invited back.

 

Stickeez, you seem to be talkative to, so is the rumor true, were you kicked off palantir for violating the NDA?

​Some of us took him at his word and believed when he said no one would be invited back in the twitch stream so we didn't bother applying as it was pretty clear we weren't wanted back.

Others 'didn't know' or ignored the fact he said it and reapplied anyways.. and others.. it seems.. got reinvited back without applying at all. 

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​Some of us took him at his word and believed when he said no one would be invited back in the twitch stream so we didn't bother applying as it was pretty clear we weren't wanted back.

​I guess the question I have, to be more clear then, is why Beanie, who appears to have found the PC harmonious and productive in its second half, not invited back?

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​I guess the question I have, to be more clear then, is why Beanie, who appears to have found the PC harmonious and productive in its second half, not invited back?

​I didn't apply because I believed them when they said no one would be brought back. Nor do I feel it was productive the second half, I said the members of council were able to communicate reasonably with each other the second half which is different than the PC being harmonious and productive. I also feel it was underused and we were frequently ignored by Turbine.

Having a lot to say wasn't my problem. Saying what they wanted to hear was.

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​I didn't apply because I believed them when they said no one would be brought back. Nor do I feel it was productive the second half, I said the members of council were able to communicate reasonably with each other the second half which is different than the PC being harmonious and productive. I also feel it was underused and we were frequently ignored by Turbine.

Having a lot to say wasn't my problem. Saying what they wanted to hear was.

​Didn't ask if you applied.

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So how does one who "purportedly" violated a (hypothetical) NDA in the past, get the opportunity to be under one again?

​When is an NDA terminated? As soon as either party expressly terminates it. Period.

What a lot of people don't understand and take for granted as meaningless lawyerspeak is the amount of time the NDA remains in force after the relationship is terminated (or forever if so worded), and for a specified time after any other specified event occurs (like the last time they received proprietary information from the company, which could be pretty broad when you think about it).

So these people may or may not have their NDA tied to their access to bullroarer, or even access to a forum post that requires login. That would be something for arbitration or the courts, and it all depends on the NDA wording. Turbine could have easily set it all up so that the player bears a pretty heavy burden to terminate the relationship that the NDA is based on. They could be locked into the NDA until they both terminate the NDA themselves and somehow end their ability to receive disclosures.

And all this to state that a player who is on an earlier PC may not even need to sign another one, and even if they did it may explicitly modify portions but will not invalidate the old one. And all NDA's will have a clause to that effect. Allegorically, consider a person who signs and NDA, gets laid off, company gets bought out, new company hires them back. The old NDA will be written so that any new one does not invalidate anything not explicitly spelled out.

As far as the implications of your question, it is up to the parties in the NDA to address any perceived violations. That could be simply a warning and counseling. How that affects their relationship is up to them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

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​When is an NDA terminated? As soon as either party expressly terminates it. Period.

What a lot of people don't understand and take for granted as meaningless lawyerspeak is the amount of time the NDA remains in force after the relationship is terminated (or forever if so worded), and for a specified time after any other specified event occurs (like the last time they received proprietary information from the company, which could be pretty broad when you think about it).

Oh, I'm sure that people understand that.  However, some also understand that Turbine can permaban them from the game with as little an impetus as someone saying, "Oh, why not?"

It stinks, but folks on the Council pretty much have to decide whether game access is important to them or not.

However, Doro did give a third and viable option, and he just doesn't care what happens.

Edited by Dalthalion
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I hope they are not disappointed about what the implications are.

And I hope that anyone who has signed one in the past and no longer cares about the game has expressly terminated the agreement in writing. It might be a good last post for the forums in fact. Screenshot it for posterity. It will likely be removed but it reinforces your intent, and it is sure to cause some serious consternation amongst the unwashed masses.

That is not to say the termination should not be done through more official channels as well. An email is generally enough, but stamps are cheap, a RRR letter would probably be a good backup.

Edited by Koolio
m
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​OR perhaps they were protecting fragile snowflakes who have to make any disagreement of opinion into some sort of personal vendetta?
For serious though, you missed about 6 months.  I wish you hadn't.

​So who is Stickeez on the official forums, or their name for the Player Council? It seems like a lot of people here know, but I must have missed it if it was posted.

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Boat sailed on a quality game some years ago, the minute a company needs a focus group to tell it how to design a game you know somethings going wrong. May as well set up an innovation committee.

i cant imagine this rubbish being done during the better years of the game. Nor it being a discussion point.

The fact that this is the main point of discussion on LOTRO at the moment sort of sums up how low the game has sunk. But then who am I to comment, an ex-player who stopped playing in 2010 (when free to play began).

Edited by Lexicus
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I can tell you who Carlanya is.

Player in everyone's ignore list, who doesn't pvp at all(i heard she has only a greenie spider used a few times for pve quests), but she is in pvp council only because she wants 1v1s banned because "they are rank farming".

​One would think to be on a PvP council one would have to PvP, silly me, this is turbine. So where's the Old Used Up Programmer?

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​Banned from the forums.

PM DJHeydt about it, and she'll say it without saying it.

​If I was a betting man this would be what I would bet the ban was for:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?519877-At-last-is-the-Big-Battle-of-Helm-s-Deep-Lore-Breaking

I don't think he was so much upset about the actual Epic Battles being a lore break but rather his prediction of a 100% session play solo only endgame not coming true.  I believe he rallied for that.  While I enjoy some of the session plays making an entire endgame session play would have been a very bad decision.  In the end Epic Battle are probably closer to session plays than traditional content. 

But he did post as late as Jan 2014 so it I could be wrong. 

I don't think the guy actually made any bannable comments.  He was just toxic to the community and Sap or who ever had enough of his nonsense.  He Khafar were pretty notorious for being straight haters of anyone who did not play the game the exact way they did down to the T.  They even went out of their way to the raid and PVP forums to belittle players who liked content they deemed unimportant. 

There are still enough morons still posting over there, his wife included (would not be surprised if he used her account at times) , that are still waving the same flags.  The damage was done long ago and the community manager at the time did nothing to stop it.   So who did more damage to the community players like me who kept pushing for traditional group content only to be slapped down by the Lotro Elite or the Lotro Elite for slapping me down instead of supporting what I had to say?  (And yes I did start trolling after we were told by Sap man that group content was no longer allowed to even be discussed on the forums at all).

 

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