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Update on Transfers/Server Consolidations


Stickeez
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If indeed it is true that their new hardware could handle the whole population on 2 servers (for the sake of the argument lets assume this is true), there must be another reason to keep 10 servers. 

The most obvious is the language and RP separation, but I think it's even simpler than that.

Player loss. The more servers they shut down, the more players they are gonna lose. By keeping 5 servers each side they are virtually guaranteed to keep, what, 65-75% of the population. If going 1 EU, 1US, that number would drop to 20-25%. I think they don't wanna take that risk. 

The opposite is also true = Some, myself and others in my kin, starting to play again in the hope that we will be off of a dead server. Becoming active with long lost friends is enough to get me excited about playing LOTRO again.

Sure there will be people who leave because they want an empty server others will leave because they have various friends selecting different servers and can't maintain their relationships and others will leave for different reasons... but I hope there is some movement to offset this and particularly with the return of friends which means more than total numbers to me at least.

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Turbine's downside to less full servers is they believe people DON'T want that. That's why they claim they're closing, so people feel they're on vibrant full servers.

I bring all this up because they have recently bragged how wonderful their servers are and how they can handle the entire lotro population on basically one server each for US and EU. I think they're blowing smoke out their ass, but if it's true they should open Brandywine up to transfer immediately and not wait to "see how the load goes". Otherwise they're tacitly admitting they're full of shit. Again.

Well to be fair they do not have the game running on the new servers yet.

Playing mainly on Brandy I do not think opening it to transfers now is a good idea. Skill execution lag is still pretty high at times even if you just solo in an area where practically no one is. They said they might open it once they are on the new hardware but is is not a given.

However shutting the free transfers between remaining worlds down in October so that you have to pay later on if you want to go to Brandy if it opens just makes me shake my head.

Same as with them not being able to tell whether transfers to Brandy will open at all in the forseeable future for closing servers transfers.

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I bring all this up because they have recently bragged how wonderful their servers are and how they can handle the entire lotro population on basically one server each for US and EU. I think they're blowing smoke out their ass, but if it's true they should open Brandywine up to transfer immediately and not wait to "see how the load goes". Otherwise they're tacitly admitting they're full of shit. Again.

I don't think they're necessarily full of shit intentionally. I suspect they will find that while their new servers would be handling the load well, or even one could handle all of it, the game ISN'T only the server. As in the other thread, reading between the lines in all those lag-related "answers", there are hints at timing and syncing of information, there was direct statement from Heaton that one client had, under circumstances that are likely not understood to this day (or tomorrow, for that matter), the chance to bog all others down and what have you.

So, while their new datacenters might well be able to handle all the players on one shard, I very much doubt that their b0rked POS client will be.

Fun fact: When Heaton blamed client-side (and he always did), people, without fail, understood him to mean their systems (and complained about them being OK, pasting useless 10-page DXDiag reports and what-not). In one of those thread he half-admitted that actually, client-side included their client (Well, d'oh!).

 

SNy

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On the topic of whether players generally want a Busy/populated server vs not wanting that - I think the buildup on Brandywine shows that generally players do want to play on populated/active servers.  That's not to say EVERY player wants this, but most do.

See I agree with this. My experience says that:

While some players prefer a low population server, generally it isn't a make or break issue. If they get a chance to move they will and even then it usually has to be convenient. 

The majority of players want a server with enough population that they see others playing, groups can be formed etc. While not solely a make or break issue it does see to be a larger priority.

 

I've never seen the "OMG the server has to many players this sucks" complaints outnumber the " My server's dead nobody is ever on this sucks" complaints.

 

Is it possible that while the new servers themselves could handle the load that going to fewer ( 2 ) servers would cause Queue issues? Because those do piss people off too. That could also explain the reason for more Servers than needed. Someone said that they should have just cut to the minimum needed, and barring something unlikely like a reboot or new title I agree, and while the Europe supported language servers could require something different, if Frelorn's estimate is correct there is no reason to have more than 2 US Servers.

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See I agree with this. My experience says that:

While some players prefer a low population server, generally it isn't a make or break issue. If they get a chance to move they will and even then it usually has to be convenient. 

The majority of players want a server with enough population that they see others playing, groups can be formed etc. While not solely a make or break issue it does see to be a larger priority.

 

I've never seen the "OMG the server has to many players this sucks" complaints outnumber the " My server's dead nobody is ever on this sucks" complaints.

 

Is it possible that while the new servers themselves could handle the load that going to fewer ( 2 ) servers would cause Queue issues? Because those do piss people off too. That could also explain the reason for more Servers than needed. Someone said that they should have just cut to the minimum needed, and barring something unlikely like a reboot or new title I agree, and while the Europe supported language servers could require something different, if Frelorn's estimate is correct there is no reason to have more than 2 US Servers.

well technically if you need queues you reached the max set load for the Hware.  In this case our two hypothetical servers did not in fact have the oomph to run the whole pop.  If however the servers do have the get up and go queues not req.  /shrugs

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But that sort of cancels out the ability to "choose" where you want to go. For the US we have 1 we can't transfer to (Brandywine), 1 RP server that I don't see people who don't RP transferring to, so basically you choose between 3 servers. The EU isn't any better because they have language limitations to guide where they go. Narrowing it from 29 servers to 10 automatically makes all worlds more populous. But if there are people who seriously want to transfer to Brandywine I think they should be able to - especially since Turbine has made it clear that their new servers should handle any and all comers.

I'm on an Eu server, (Evernight), and there is panic in the streets already about the impending doom mushroom cloud of what will amount to all english speaking EU servers will be mashed into one.. unless some join the RP server. It's already near hostile in regards to the recently displaced Russians, I can't imagine what will happen when other foreign language speaking individuals transfer over and dare try to speak in ./world.. hopefully they won't get sentenced to the internment camp of their own language speaking channel as the Russians have.. chased out by intolerant trolls with pitchforks and anti russian vendettas.

I'd love to have a more populated server (and ignore list) simply because I like pvp and raiding (yes Dinosaur here.. I know, I know) and more people is more opportunity to do so. I think there should also be a less populated EN speaking server too, to accommodate people who don't like jam packed, in your face all the time, meat sacks walking all over middle earth in donkey masks swinging yule sparklers.

The part that irritates me the most, is they are only giving us until October to transfer out of the soon to be overpopulated one (non rp, english speaking) server left or we have to pay? I'd like to wait and see what calamities happen before I decide whether to stay or go on Evernight.. and giving me like a week to make that decision (by the time all transfers are opened and underway, as Snowy is the last able to transfer out) is bullshit. I'd like to see a more forgiving grace period to get to see the new kids coming in on my block before I decide to move or stay.

 

 

 

Edited by Danys
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I had the chance to speak briefly with Athena Peters in game the other day, concerning my character slot loss involved in the server merge/deletion/whatever, and it was a bit disappointing.  The questions were uncomfortable enough for her to say "you caught me right before a meeting.  I have to go."

 

For any characters I wish to move to servers on which I don't have enough slots available for them - even though I afforded and paid money/TP to have those slots - her response was one that I thought was hasty and not well-drawn:  "... but if you have more characters than slots to choose from on the remaining servers you might have to be selective in which characters you play [edit:  What the what??] or unlock more slots [edit:  Cha-ching!]"

 

So, she's essentially saying that I have to re-buy slots that I've already bought and will eventually lose like flatulence in the wind.

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I think your request to give everyone ~35 slots on the remaining servers (assuming you have 9 slots on each of the 39 servers) to be unreasonable but that's just me.

(Of course, Dal is unlikely to read this since I'm on his ignore list apparently but whatever.)

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I see Dal's point - and the point of other people who have brought this up - Turbine is forcing players to delete characters or pay them more money to keep them - because of the server merge.

There is no need to give everyone 35 slotsBut why not give extra slots to the few players who have too many characters to be able to keep them all. Most people don't have that many - but Turbine can allow for those who do. There is definitely room for compromise as a way to prevent forcing players to either lose characters or pay more money. They could even just give a large discount to players facing this issue - so it would not be too expensive. Give a special discount for players who need to buy slots to keep characters.

Doing nothing for these players who have already paid extra money is the lamest solution. The server merge shouldn't really force players to give Turbine more money.

Edited by nosam9
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I had the chance to speak briefly with Athena Peters in game the other day, concerning my character slot loss involved in the server merge/deletion/whatever, and it was a bit disappointing.  The questions were uncomfortable enough for her to say "you caught me right before a meeting.  I have to go."

 

For any characters I wish to move to servers on which I don't have enough slots available for them - even though I afforded and paid money/TP to have those slots - her response was one that I thought was hasty and not well-drawn:  "... but if you have more characters than slots to choose from on the remaining servers you might have to be selective in which characters you play [edit:  What the what??] or unlock more slots [edit:  Cha-ching!]"

 

So, she's essentially saying that I have to re-buy slots that I've already bought and will eventually lose like flatulence in the wind.

I think what they need to say to you folks is, your characters aren't consolidated on all servers now, so why should they be after the merger?  If you have that many characters you'll need to transfer them to multiple remaining servers.

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I think what they need to say to you folks is, your characters aren't consolidated on all servers now, so why should they be after the merger?  If you have that many characters you'll need to transfer them to multiple remaining servers.

I don't think that's what he's saying, though. He's saying people who have more characters than server slots available after the migration will have to buy additional slots to get back the characters they had initially.

So lets say that each server has 10 slots. There will be 10 servers, so a 100 slots in total. If a player had more than 100 characters across all servers combined before the merge, they will lose the ability to play a few of their characters. I could be wrong, though.

Obviously, it's not going to be a common problem, but it certainly will mean that there are less slots available in total than before and Turbine's only response has been 'buy more or deal with it'.

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I don't think that's what he's saying, though. He's saying people who have more characters than server slots available after the migration will have to buy additional slots to get back the characters they had initially.

So lets say that each server has 10 slots. There will be 10 servers, so a 100 slots in total. If a player had more than 100 characters across all servers combined before the merge, they will lose the ability to play a few of their characters. I could be wrong, though.

Obviously, it's not going to be a common problem, but it certainly will mean that there are less slots available in total than before and Turbine's only response has been 'buy more or deal with it'.

I see what you're saying, but like you say I agree it's not the big complaint surrounding these closures.  Maybe it's the complaint of the poster I specifically responded to and I misunderstood it though.

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I don't think that's what he's saying, though. He's saying people who have more characters than server slots available after the migration will have to buy additional slots to get back the characters they had initially.

So lets say that each server has 10 slots. There will be 10 servers, so a 100 slots in total. If a player had more than 100 characters across all servers combined before the merge, they will lose the ability to play a few of their characters. I could be wrong, though.

Obviously, it's not going to be a common problem, but it certainly will mean that there are less slots available in total than before and Turbine's only response has been 'buy more or deal with it'.

What Ms. Peters kept missing (as do a few here) is that slots ≠ characters.  She's trying, in essence, to tell me that I have more characters than I need to play.  Actually, I don't.  I've just kept a limited amount on several servers.  Yet, if and when they open up transfers to Brandywine, I can't transfer my Windfola characters there, because I've already filled up the number of character slots I have there, even though the character slots that the Windfola characters exist in are also ones that I had in my possession.  I can't combine transfers from more than one closing server onto a new server (with the US/EU separation and the Brandywine restriction meaning that my choices of destination are now fewer), because some characters would get left out, and the characters I created together on each server are largely thematic and not meant to be separated.  I mean, they went to the trouble of maintaining those RP servers, but when they set up a system like this, players like me who make use of thematics groups of character ideas can't transfer those characters together as they ought to be transferred, just because I haven't paid the extortion money?

 

That's why my emphasis is the transfer of slots, not just characters.  If a person already had a slot in his possession - especially one bought with real money - one ought to be able to keep it.  And it wouldn't be hard to code, because they already have a mechanism in place to add slots.  I mean, they figured out a way to transfer kinships but not character slots?  Ridiculous!

 

When I purchased my subscription and the Moria expansion, that was with real money, and TP were used to add characters slots afterwards  That gave me characters slots on each server, and Turbine designed the purchase in that way.  If they wanted to keep the slot purchases specific to each server, then they ought to have designed it differently.  But they didn't.  Instead, they've decided to pull out the rug from under me and tell me that I have to, in essence, pay again for what I've already paid.

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Each transaction bought you one slot per server, and that is exactly what you'll still have after the consolidation.

While you may have thought of each transaction as buying 29 character slots, what you actually bought was one slot per server.  If they had advertised it as "29 character slots", then you would have a valid complaint.

If you are truly inconvenienced, I'm sorry about that, but they are not taking anything you paid for away from you.

 

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Each transaction bought you one slot per server, and that is exactly what you'll still have after the consolidation.

While you may have thought of each transaction as buying 29 character slots, what you actually bought was one slot per server.  If they had advertised it as "29 character slots", then you would have a valid complaint.

If you are truly inconvenienced, I'm sorry about that, but they are not taking anything you paid for away from you.

 

This assessment, I fully agree with.

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Each transaction bought you one slot per server, and that is exactly what you'll still have after the consolidation.

While you may have thought of each transaction as buying 29 character slots, what you actually bought was one slot per server.  If they had advertised it as "29 character slots", then you would have a valid complaint.

If you are truly inconvenienced, I'm sorry about that, but they are not taking anything you paid for away from you.

 

Spoken like a corporate lawyer.  You must be proud.

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I see Dal's point - and the point of other people who have brought this up - Turbine is forcing players to delete characters or pay them more money to keep them - because of the server merge.

There is no need to give everyone 35 slotsBut why not give extra slots to the few players who have too many characters to be able to keep them all. Most people don't have that many - but Turbine can allow for those who do. There is definitely room for compromise as a way to prevent forcing players to either lose characters or pay more money. They could even just give a large discount to players facing this issue - so it would not be too expensive. Give a special discount for players who need to buy slots to keep characters.

Doing nothing for these players who have already paid extra money is the lamest solution. The server merge shouldn't really force players to give Turbine more money.

Looks like Dal's point is that he wants the slots, whether he could fit all his characters on the remaining servers or not. They gave all VIPs and Premium players 2 extra slots per server to help with this issue. I think that's pretty fair.

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Looks like Dal's point is that he wants the slots, whether he could fit all his characters on the remaining servers or not. They gave all VIPs and Premium players 2 extra slots per server to help with this issue. I think that's pretty fair.

Yeah, I am not saying give everyone a huge number of extra slots. But Dal has a point in that making him suddenly lose his characters unless he pays Turbine $20 is not right.

2 extra slots per server is fine for people with a few characters, but doesn't help the person with a lot of characters. 

But I also see the arguments that this is not such a big deal. I also don't think it's that much of a big deal to delete some characters if you have so many.

 

Edited by nosam9
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Someone went to the trouble of getting out the big crayons to explain it to you, and you have to get snarky with them.

Only a crazed shut-in with zero life outside of the game would need that many character slots.

No, just someone who doesn't take well to being robbed or facilitating it.

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Dal certainly does have a point as when he purchased those character slots he had access and use of those characters on servers which Turbine has decided to close.

Solution? This would only apply to people with Dal's rather rare (I would think) circumstance = I think a good compromise is to look at the hours played for the characters and an arbitrary number like ~50 hours in-game would qualify the character as a "played" character and not just a server placeholder. Any character that has over 50 hours in-game play should be compensated for with extra character slots. Turbine,

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