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Update on Transfers/Server Consolidations


Stickeez
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However unfortunately for some it is easier to attack an entire RP community that look at what the root cause of the problem is.

And what if some think that the root cause of the problem isn't the GMs, it's the RP community? There's a reason people are flocking to Evernight instead of Laurelin.

 

You truly are a disappointment, especially when you called to have the thread closed.

I must admit, I went over to have a look at this whole banter match and this particular point had me shaking my head. That's playground level of 'I'll tell the teacher on you'.

 

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And what if some think that the root cause of the problem isn't the GMs, it's the RP community? There's a reason people are flocking to Evernight instead of Laurelin.

 

I must admit, I went over to have a look at this whole banter match and this particular point had me shaking my head. That's playground level of 'I'll tell the teacher on you'.

 

I looked at the Laurelin thread that was linked a little bit before Bango's post you pointed to.

In it, one of the recent arrivals from Gilrain to Laurelin now describes her location as "I lived in Beautiful Gilrain, now I live in Sauron's second capital: Laurelin". 

So yeah, that thread has plenty of "feedback" on why Laurelin has a bad reputation.  Amorey is spinning bullshit and trying to present it as perfume.

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On your final paragraph I agree with you completely. If you care to look back across the several threads on the OF on this subject I've been consistent in stating that this is the root cause of the problem - whilst anyone can raise a ticket, it takes a GM to assess the its contents, check the procedures and standard responses and determine an appropriate outcome. I was also very consistent in asking for all name changes to be paused whilst the GM issue was looked into - because at the very least the GMs needed to apply far greater discretion. However unfortunately for some it is easier to attack an entire RP community that look at what the root cause of the problem is.

As for the other points - when you're thinking of buying a product do you consider evidence from a range of reviews or just a single 1 star comment on Amazon? Also I am not a Turbine employee nor an official representative.

Hi Bango, I wasn't making any comment about anything you've said on the OF because to be honest I haven't read anything you've posted there recently. I was just making the point that people base their opinions on a single negative experience all the time.

I was considering going to Laurelin, but I really do not want my rule appropriate names changed, so will not risk going there. I don't want to be worried all the time that someone is going to take umbrage at me for some petty reason and report me. All it takes is one person to report you, but none of us know how many players on Laurelin are actually doing the reporting. It could be a high number. 

I agree with you that it is the enforcement of the policy that is a large part of the problem, but the enforcement is still not the root cause. An RPer still has to report you for your name to be changed. If they were not reporting people maliciously, there would be no problem. I do agree that Turbine need to check each name before enforcing a name change instead of just doing it. However, I also think Turbine should punish any RPer who reports rule appropriate names to discourage this practice.

With regards to Amazon reviews, if a 1 star review is well written, balanced and unbiased, how can it not affect whether you purchase a product? It is very easy to spot untrustworthy reviews. And this applies to 5 star reviews as well. If the people giving 5 star reviews are clearly, how can I put this, not people who are like me, then no, I would look to the negative reviews as lots of 5 star reviews can also be very unbalanced and biased. 

 

Edited by Mallorn
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I agree with you that it is the enforcement of the policy that is a large part of the problem, but the enforcement is still not the root cause. An RPer still has to report you for your name to be changed. If they were not reporting people maliciously, there would be no problem. I do agree that Turbine need to check each name before enforcing a name change instead of just doing it. However, I also think Turbine should punish any RPer who reports rule appropriate names to discourage this practice.

Several people pointed exactly this out to Bango, but from his replies he seems stuck in a state of denial and outrage at anyone daring to say people on Laurelin have contributed to the problem. He kept insisting you can't blame this on the trolls reporting decent names on Laurelin. 

But if Bango changes and suddenly can discuss this rationally, then ...

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No, it means that I've struck a nerve, and you are in such a defensive stance because you know I am right, and you are too damned proud to admit it.

You truly are a disappointment, especially when you called to have the thread closed.

Shame you can't suck Sapience's dick anymore to get that special RP carte blanche in the forums.

Go play a game of hide and go fuck yourself you self righteous prick.

Man, you have some massive issues.

Take a chill pill, for fuck sake, we don't need the OF drama over here.

Several people pointed exactly this out to Bango, but from his replies he seems stuck in a state of denial and outrage at anyone daring to say people on Laurelin have contributed to the problem. He kept insisting you can't blame this on the trolls reporting decent names on Laurelin. 

But if Bango changes and suddenly can discuss this rationally, then ...

You are probably not the person that should be calling out others on the inability to discuss things rationally, considering your vast history of posts on these forums.

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I agree with you that it is the enforcement of the policy that is a large part of the problem, but the enforcement is still not the root cause. An RPer still has to report you for your name to be changed. If they were not reporting people maliciously, there would be no problem. I do agree that Turbine need to check each name before enforcing a name change instead of just doing it. However, I also think Turbine should punish any RPer who reports rule appropriate names to discourage this practice.

I'm not sure people quite understand. IF THERE'S NO NAMING POLICY THERE'S NOTHING TO REPORT. Sure, it is people that initiate the reports but, clearly, the root is that there's a naming policy to begin with.

Imagine if it were against Turbine policy to post, say, silver on the AH. It might be a bad policy but if someone posted silver I'd fully expect someone out there would report it. You going to get mad at the reporter or the bad policy? I wonder how many reports of silver on the AH are currently made? Well, since there's no policy about it, I'd say about zero.

Get it?

Yes, people who repeatedly use the report function falsely need to be held accountable for sure.

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On your final paragraph I agree with you completely. If you care to look back across the several threads on the OF on this subject I've been consistent in stating that this is the root cause of the problem - whilst anyone can raise a ticket, it takes a GM to assess the its contents, check the procedures and standard responses and determine an appropriate outcome. I was also very consistent in asking for all name changes to be paused whilst the GM issue was looked into - because at the very least the GMs needed to apply far greater discretion. However unfortunately for some it is easier to attack an entire RP community that look at what the root cause of the problem is.

As for the other points - when you're thinking of buying a product do you consider evidence from a range of reviews or just a single 1 star comment on Amazon? Also I am not a Turbine employee nor an official representative.

You are on the very edge Bango but you can't seem to take the final step.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting the "entire" Laurelin community consists of evil RPers laying in wait for some poor naming convention lore breaker to wander into their midst. Rather, the point is IMO, the draconian special RP rules empower those petty few on Laurelin to indulge in their pettiness. (people like this exist on every server)

Bango: http://www.bango.com/

Is there any question that your name violates the strict RP rules on Laurelin? And bet your behind there is a tightass out there who would report you because there are people on every server who find joy in bringing others sorrow. Laurelin RP rules give these people a weapon that just doesn't exist on other servers. And GM's aren't going to take the time and trouble to go through a thorough investigation and appeal process and finally a Supreme Court Constitutional challenge. :P

 

 

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He still went a little far, IMO.

He nose-dived into shit. 

But...

I come from Gilrain. I love the community messages our kin gets from mature, established Laurelin RP kins. There are events and stuff I read about I'd love to participate. 

But not on your nelly am I going to leave my empty homestead or speak to anyone just to get reported by some evil fuck. 

Strictly in-kin activity, and Ventrillo. 

 

Anyone disparaging or belittling the harm done by Name-Police Trolls has lost it. They spoiled my last 18 months of LOTRO. 

You think it's unimportant?

I'll call my renamed toon Floccinaucinihilipilification. 

 

 

Edited by Jedy2
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I'm not sure people quite understand. IF THERE'S NO NAMING POLICY THERE'S NOTHING TO REPORT. Sure, it is people that initiate the reports but, clearly, the root is that there's a naming policy to begin with.

Imagine if it were against Turbine policy to post, say, silver on the AH. It might be a bad policy but if someone posted silver I'd fully expect someone out there would report it. You going to get mad at the reporter or the bad policy? I wonder how many reports of silver on the AH are currently made? Well, since there's no policy about it, I'd say about zero.

Get it?

Yes, people who repeatedly use the report function falsely need to be held accountable for sure.

I don't fully agree. Without a doubt the policy helps exacerbate the issue but even on non-rp servers names are reported and tight-asses exist.

It's more like there is no policy against parking your mount on top of a mailbox, people do it and get reported despite there not being an actual policy against it. Sure there's a mailbox 20 steps away but someone is going to say they're being harassed.

 

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I don't fully agree. Without a doubt the policy helps exacerbate the issue but even on non-rp servers names are reported and tight-asses exist.

It's more like there is no policy against parking your mount on top of a mailbox, people do it and get reported despite there not being an actual policy against it. Sure there's a mailbox 20 steps away but someone is going to say they're being harassed.

 

Huh? You say you don't fully agree while citing yet another naming policy that people use (and abuse) on non-RP servers? What if that policy wasn't there? How many reports would there be??

There's a general policy about griefing judged on a case by case basis. That covers the mail box situation. Hard to use that for a theoretically non-existant naming policy unless name was fundinstrongarmisanasshole.

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Huh? You say you don't fully agree while citing yet another naming policy that people use (and abuse) on non-RP servers? What if that policy wasn't there? How many reports would there be??

There's a general policy about griefing judged on a case by case basis. That covers the mail box situation. Hard to use that for a theoretically non-existant naming policy unless name was fundinstrongarmisanasshole.

But it is there and it's being abused by pricks on Laurelin. No point asking for the rule to disappear, because it won't. And it doesn't excuse the pricks who do abuse it, either. It's the way it is and the only real option is just to avoid the backwater servers like the plague.

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I'm saying people would make names and others would find them offensive/out of IP/or whatever and would report them. A naming policy certainly makes it worse because it helps justify the reporters actions but sending reports would happen even without the policy. Why? Because some people just have a need to make names suited to agitate people and some people just have a need to feel like they are helping society.

There would be fewer reports if no policy was in place no doubt but to think no policy would make 0 reports as your silver example said is just not a reality. One only has to have a general awareness of people to know that.

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No, it means that I've struck a nerve, and you are in such a defensive stance because you know I am right, and you are too damned proud to admit it.

You truly are a disappointment, especially when you called to have the thread closed.

Shame you can't suck Sapience's dick anymore to get that special RP carte blanche in the forums.

Go play a game of hide and go fuck yourself you self righteous prick.

Thanks for the lols. You've certainly lost the argument on the OF and now you're resorting to name calling. However, if you're going to do it right, it's best to call someone a "self righteous little prick" though I can think of many, many better insults - which for some reason reminded me of this:

 

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You are on the very edge Bango but you can't seem to take the final step.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting the "entire" Laurelin community consists of evil RPers laying in wait for some poor naming convention lore breaker to wander into their midst. Rather, the point is IMO, the draconian special RP rules empower those petty few on Laurelin to indulge in their pettiness. (people like this exist on every server)

Bango: http://www.bango.com/

Is there any question that your name violates the strict RP rules on Laurelin? And bet your behind there is a tightass out there who would report you because there are people on every server who find joy in bringing others sorrow. Laurelin RP rules give these people a weapon that just doesn't exist on other servers. And GM's aren't going to take the time and trouble to go through a thorough investigation and appeal process and finally a Supreme Court Constitutional challenge. :P

 

 

Indeed and which is why the buck stops with the GMs. 

The irony of it all is that we've had these rules in place for 8+ years and on the whole Laurelin has very quiet - just that a perfect storm of server transfers, /world chat channel and rumour encouraging others to get stuck in has stirred the pot somewhat.

While I do agree that was a bit over the top, I generally try to keep the OF drama/bullshit away from here.

Bango just pushed too far, so yes, he [Almagnus1] mad, he very mad.

Nah, I'll just get the last laugh by pointing out on the OF that you're burg's name is a lore breach because that company has been in existence since 1999.

Perhaps know you'll learn a bit more about sympathy, and understanding of what Ardbeg went through when he lost his name.

Seriously I could not care less, though I do like the idea of you taking time out so that you can try and exact your little revenge. Knowing that I'm living rent-free up there in the space between your eyes will help me sleep very comfortably tonight. 

cya!

Several people pointed exactly this out to Bango, but from his replies he seems stuck in a state of denial and outrage at anyone daring to say people on Laurelin have contributed to the problem. He kept insisting you can't blame this on the trolls reporting decent names on Laurelin. 

But if Bango changes and suddenly can discuss this rationally, then ...

I've got fresh suppliers of valium so I should be as chilled & relaxed as the Dude.

I must admit, I went over to have a look at this whole banter match and this particular point had me shaking my head. That's playground level of 'I'll tell the teacher on you'.

 

Indeed it's not my best work - which is why I apologised on the OF. Rather liberating it was too.

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But it is there and it's being abused by pricks on Laurelin. No point asking for the rule to disappear, because it won't. And it doesn't excuse the pricks who do abuse it, either. It's the way it is and the only real option is just to avoid the backwater servers like the plague.

It's used by pricks on all servers ;)

I've reported names that are just total wank names on Snowbourn ;) Like, Dorothir.

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But it is there and it's being abused by pricks on Laurelin. No point asking for the rule to disappear, because it won't. And it doesn't excuse the pricks who do abuse it, either. It's the way it is and the only real option is just to avoid the backwater servers like the plague.

The point is that the hypersensitive naming policy on Laurelin invites the pricks with a nice easy way to "legitimately" report someone. As LV mentions, even the more lax naming policy on other servers still has people using (and abusing) the report function.

The root is the policy and how it is applied.

This is a classic example of a fundamental attribution error where more blame is attributed to the behaviour of the individual than the circumstances surrounding the situation. An example would be a randomly popping up Stop sign that causes numerous accidents and blaming the drivers involved instead of the Stop sign. Yes, people could avoid the street that has this Stop sign and thus not have the risk of crashes. Too many people seem to want to blame the drivers instead of Turbine for putting the random Stop sign there in the first place.

I think Bango is saying that Turbine needs to temper the naming policy through instruction to GMs to show some judgement (if not a blanket statement of a change in policy).

If people want to avoid Laurelin because their poor little meaningless toon name for a meaningless computer game might get changed because some random person just might use a report function that Turbine has ruled is allowable, that's up to them. Their name could get changed on other servers too.

Meh - if people want to blame random pricks instead of Turbine, that's up to them too, I suppose. Who am I to not let them live in their little dream world?

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Meh - if people want to blame random pricks instead of Turbine, that's up to them too, I suppose. Who am I to not let them live in their little dream world?

Obviously the people reporting perfectly fine names are a cause of the problem. The policy is also a cause. Saying the people on Laurelin reporting are not to blame is just stupid.

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What is getting me in that thread is that people are coming in and offering other solutions.  Different people - not the usual players.  And mostly their comments are completely ignored so the arguments between the 'main players' can continue.  And I've kinda noticed that it's usually 2-3 Laurelin residents vs. 1 non-resident. And, unless they are having a go at their current opponent, they only quote others who are from their community and supporting them, usually followed (by one in particular) with hugs and kisses.

This doesn't help because it's making the Laurelin residents appear incredibly intolerant and insular.  

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@lordariel

That sums it up pretty well. I can't even read that thread - too depressing because it is dominated by a few people. Shows you how few people are using the forums now - when people being nice are in a minority in a thread like that. Makes me think the Lotro community on servers is much worse than it used to be - after so many players leaving.

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 usually followed (by one in particular) with hugs and kisses.

This doesn't help because it's making the Laurelin residents appear incredibly intolerant and insular.  

Yes, I've always felt incredibly threatened, crowded and followed by all those forum hugs and kisses. (By one in particular...)  

Thank Muer we have the likes of Doro here... Breath of fresh air...

 

Back on topic - any forum debate can quickly degenerate into what you described - unreadable two-way traffic by a few. Hell, I remember a few unreadable threads on THIS forum too.  

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I think Bango is saying that Turbine needs to temper the naming policy through instruction to GMs to show some judgement (if not a blanket statement of a change in policy).

 

Indeed that's the essence of my viewpoint.

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