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Update 17 - What is it?


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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

In the past, we had a good enough endgame that we would soldier through the garbage content because of the endgame.

This I agree with.  I totally buy into the fact that all this casual stuff is rubbing players the wrong way because it's not balanced out by more action oriented content.  But to the content in and of it self, I feel my point stands.  We've always had it, its a necessary storytelling tool, and we're not above it.

We also had NPCs in the latter half of Volume 1, throughout Volume 2, and through most of Volume 3 that provided some consistency with the book.  Part of what made Volume 3 interesting to me was seeing what happenned with Horn, Nona, and Corunir as it provided three characters that helped propel me through the garbage content.

I resented them because Turbine was going to be providing us with a fellowship????  Why couldn't they just give us fellowship content instead and let us build our own.

LotRO was never optimized for DX 10, 11, or 12 so the thunking layers and shims that the newer DirectX versions use to make things work from DX9 code are only to cause worse performance as time progresses

I agree with this too, and it's probably why my older machine is probably playing LOTRO better than newer ones seem to.

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Oh!, I get it... you're rping a self-important douche.  Great job! you really got in touch with the character.

I guess if you eat shit long enough you acquire a taste for it.

Eh? I've been invoked, so I appear. (This forum is still the best source of actual information about updates so I've been lurking). My assessment of Minas Tirith is similar to Warspeech's. I'll add my

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4 pages later and we're still at it.  Not sure if its intentional but I'm seeing a lot of bait out there.  

I loved Lotro man.  It was a huge part of my life.  So far it and Rift are the only 2 mmos that have kept me away from just going back to wow full time.  Show me all the wow players who quit that game to play Lotro.  It ain't many.  I'm one.  When I came to Lotro it was the quality of the gameplay mixed with how good the community was.  

After coming from gearscore whores and one of the most hateful communities, going to pretty much the opposite.  Ask any question in wow lfg or trade chat and you'll see what I'm saying.   Post anything on a blizzard forum and the outcome would be the same.  

Do the same thing in Lotro circa 2009.  Sure every server had those 2-5 assholes who had to flame you somehow in chat but within seconds of those posts you'd get a player whispering you the answer.  Ask that same person a follow up question and more than likely it would be answered.  

I miss that community. 

I really was giving Lotro a third try.  I figured since most of the updates were solo quests, I'd come back and enjoy that aspect of the game.  And so far I'm not.  We all have valid reasons why.  I have pretty much agreed with everyone here about this single quest chain.  I wasn't expecting miracles.  Just coming back on a casual basis to check out some quests.  

Sure sometimes the quests were frustrating but there were a lot of gems.  Like the dude in forochel that we get tail for by beating up his brothers. Iol.  Or discovering Moria for the first time.  Or fighting at isengard.  Or many other things I remember vividly.  It all came from solo quests.  

It wasn't just the story but gameplay and that kept me playing. Even when the capped players outleveled me by 40.  There were lots of level gaps in the content groups ran mainly 35-60.  And then 65- 74.  If a quest chain was arduous you could easily find another that was less painful.  

They don't have to make a ton of content because they can't.  But they can put some effort into the stuff they do deliver.  I can't blame the art dept for this update.  Even if this was meant to be a small update they could have done better presentation wise.  It looks lazy.  Even if it is only a single person writing these quests.  

"Hey we can't offer the players much what should we give them?  Fetch quests for an NPC they will grow to resent.". " sure it doesn't always have to be glamorous, but it should flow so that the players is encouraged to continue on.  Solely because this is all they are getting.  And I think that pretty much raps up my opinion in this thread.  I don't feel like being educated on how I'm suppose to feel about a video game.  I present my opinions because it may help players to avoid the unenjoyable parts of games and run to the enjoyable things.  You can tell me I'm wrong all you want.  That is just invalidating my opinion. At least in your mind.  II don't think we should continue on validating ourselves to someone that came to this thread trying to insult us and make us look stupid.  

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  We've always had it, its a necessary storytelling tool, and we're not above it.

 

you're a bit fixated on this.  it's not really about being "above it".  look, between the lines both sides of this argument stem from a disappointment with Turbine.  it sounds like you are content with the same mundane go fetch quests in lotro because you're afraid that if Turbine tries anything new or different they will fuck it up as they often do.  the other side of the argument is that from a narrative stand point, treating us like we were level 5 toons fresh out of Combe at this point in the game is just lazy, unimaginative writing.  like Al said, Turbine is simply going through the motions, clicking boxes.  i think what we are seeing on the forums and in-game world chatter is that folks are no longer content with just clicking the boxes.  this could be because they have ventured out and tried other games or that after 8 years, enough is enough.

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But you're not.  You're just a guy sitting at your computer playing a video game, a video game that has required you to handle bags of crap since you started playing it, and required it consistently throughout.  I don't and never have self-identified through a computer avatar.  I cannot fathom this line of reason.

You don't need to self-identify as the character. You just need to acknowledge them as one. When you read a book, you don't put yourself in the character's place, you're just reading it play out.

And that's what this is about. The tasks don't fit the character. It's not about some bizarre ego trip on the side of the player.

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Quick interruption: I finished the epic yesterday, and I was happily surprised at the effort that went into it this time around in the final chapters (not the big battles, the stuff after them).  After the "fade to black" fiasco of the Ents trashing Isengard, I've been conditioned to lower my expectations.  I'm glad to see that they stepped it up for this update.

 

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4 pages later and we're still at it.  Not sure if its intentional but I'm seeing a lot of bait out there.  II don't think we should continue on validating ourselves to someone that came to this thread trying to insult us and make us look stupid.  

You see bait everywhere.  I don't think you should chase validation in a video game or a forum. 

 

you're a bit fixated on this.  it's not really about being "above it".  

Well yeah, friend, I am fixated on this because it's a big portion of what I'm objecting to and people keep saying it over and over.  They're making it about being "above it".  I think it's silly and a terrible criticism.

You don't need to self-identify as the character. You just need to acknowledge them as one. When you read a book, you don't put yourself in the character's place, you're just reading it play out.

And that's what this is about. The tasks don't fit the character. It's not about some bizarre ego trip on the side of the player.

It's coming across as a bizarre ego trip on the side of the player.  When you read a book, and the protagonist who's a spy has to mow the lawn, you don't write the author a letter do you complaining that the spy is mowing the lawn.

That's just it, the fetch bear asses quests are only really needed to help slow down quest pacing, and should be used very tactically to help pace the story properly.  What we're seeing with recent updates (basically everything after DA) is a lack of any real continuity with the characters, as we're largely isolated.

You have no argument from me here on this.  If the thrust of this debate was about the quality of the writing or character development or whatever, you'd find me much closer to your point of view.  My objection has been and continues to be the bitching about the fact that players are being "forced" to play the game as it's always been developed. 

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It's coming across as a bizarre ego trip on the side of the player.  When you read a book, and the protagonist who's a spy has to mow the lawn, you don't write the author a letter do you complaining that the spy is mowing the lawn.

This clip sums up the disconnect of it all.

 

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You have no argument from me here on this.  If the thrust of this debate was about the quality of the writing or character development or whatever, you'd find me much closer to your point of view.  My objection has been and continues to be the bitching about the fact that players are being "forced" to play the game as it's always been developed. 

lol, dude...people are complaining about the "go fetch" quests because they want better writing and character development.  i'm not sure why you can't see those two are connected.

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It's coming across as a bizarre ego trip on the side of the player.  When you read a book, and the protagonist who's a spy has to mow the lawn, you don't write the author a letter do you complaining that the spy is mowing the lawn.

 

No, but unlike LOTRO, the spy mowing the lawn in the novel wouldn't take 3 hours and more to read. The fetch and talk to so and so quests in this new update take hours to complete and there is one after another after another. That is the criticism. There are too many and they take too long and the story justification for them is poor. 

You keep saying there have always been these type of quests. Yes, there has, but never so many sequentially in one quest chain. Never so many that take hours to complete with no variety.

If you played other mmos you'd see they have creativity and character development.

You start off doing menial quests in Final Fantasy XIV. As you get higher level, they taper off as you do start being given more important things to do because you are now a skilled warrior, well-known and are needed to perform dangerous tasks few can. You, the player, feel like your character has grown. You never question why your character is doing something anyone could do, because your character is performing tasks conversant with their abilities. 

In LOTRO you spend ages clearing up and taking messages whilst npcs stand around doing nothing. Story wise it makes no sense as your character could be off doing more important things. Your character is not uniquely needed to perform theses tasks as absolutely anyone with no skills could. It makes no sense.

 

Edited by Mallorn
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lol, dude...people are complaining about the "go fetch" quests because they want better writing and character development.  i'm not sure why you can't see those two are connected.

What I'm getting out of this is people are complaining about the nature of the questing.  They're saying their too heroic for this, that it's boring, that it's lazy, that they have to go back and forth and back and forth.  That has nothing to do with the writing of the content that is framing the actions.  I've heard all of these complaints before over the years, and I've watched (and been subjected to) Turbine's attempts at fixing this.  Included in this are BIG BATTLES because kids wanted to be a part of the action.  So instead of playing clean up crew behind the big battle, we had to be a part of it.  How'd that go for us?  Another one was MOUNTED COMBAT because regular questing was so boring and Rohan provided us with a new means of questing.  Popular right?  Wrecked the servers, ruined loot distribution, and did a lot of other damage too you may not be cognizant of.  Lets see what else, people complaining about having to run back and forth.  So they added pop up quests, and location specific quests, those pet quests that we first saw in Dunland where an NPC follows us giving quests (and aggroing everything in the universe). 

This is all shit in response to the stupid criticisms like we're seeing here.  And ironically, the very same people criticizing the content, criticize the solutions too.  It's truly brilliant.

It's why I've come to the conclusion, LOTRO is what it is, flawed an all.  Just let it be.  Those flaws often become character traits.  it's when Turbine tries to meet the capricious demands of people like this, that the game truly goes to shit.

I have nothing else to say on this topic.

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Why are you all even bothering to debate this with Snowlock. He (she?) is obviously in denial about the game.

And, yes, snowlock, of course you don't think so. You have been busy defending U17 - telling us how it's not so bad for a while now.

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Why are you all even bothering to debate this with Snowlock. He (she?) is obviously in denial about the game.

And, yes, snowlock, of course you don't think so. You have been busy defending U17 - telling us how it's not so bad for a while now.

Thank you for trying to make the discussion about me.  Now I feel validation. 

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Thank you for trying to make the discussion about me.  Now I feel validation. 

Out of the last 55 posts in this thread, 51 are either by you or quoting and replying to you. That's 93%. Only 4 posts are not by you or in reply to you. 

How is this "discussion" not about you and what you are saying?

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Out of the last 55 posts in this thread, 51 are either by you or quoting and replying to you. That's 93%. Only 4 posts are not by you or in reply to you. 

How is this "discussion" not about you and what you are saying?

Well, of those 51 posts, mine are about lotro.

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What I'm getting out of this is people are complaining about the nature of the questing.  They're saying their too heroic for this, that it's boring, that it's lazy, that they have to go back and forth and back and forth.  That has nothing to do with the writing of the content that is framing the actions.  I've heard all of these complaints before over the years, and I've watched (and been subjected to) Turbine's attempts at fixing this.  Included in this are BIG BATTLES because kids wanted to be a part of the action.  So instead of playing clean up crew behind the big battle, we had to be a part of it.  How'd that go for us?  Another one was MOUNTED COMBAT because regular questing was so boring and Rohan provided us with a new means of questing.  Popular right?  Wrecked the servers, ruined loot distribution, and did a lot of other damage too you may not be cognizant of.  Lets see what else, people complaining about having to run back and forth.  So they added pop up quests, and location specific quests, those pet quests that we first saw in Dunland where an NPC follows us giving quests (and aggroing everything in the universe). 

This is all shit in response to the stupid criticisms like we're seeing here.  And ironically, the very same people criticizing the content, criticize the solutions too.  It's truly brilliant.

It's why I've come to the conclusion, LOTRO is what it is, flawed an all.  Just let it be.  Those flaws often become character traits.  it's when Turbine tries to meet the capricious demands of people like this, that the game truly goes to shit.

I have nothing else to say on this topic.

I'm sure you're not aiming to sound like you're blaming players for Turbine's inability to implement new features. But fear of Turbine fucking up even more than they have done already shouldn't be a reason to stop criticism. And it especially shouldn't be a reason to just accept what you're given.

Big battles missed the mark entirely, when people only wanted something as simple as an instance. Mounted combat was another one that Turbine over-cooked beyond belief. Pop up quests were one of the few decent things Turbine actually did for people (along with open looting).

Criticisms of menial quests are perfectly valid. Early on, maybe not because you're still setting out your stall. But by L100, it should be obvious what sort of level of importance the characters are. I doubt Eomer would get asked to tidy up people's plates, because that's servant work. That's all it is, really. Quests more fitting the character.

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I doubt Eomer would get asked to tidy up people's plates, because that's servant work. That's all it is, really. Quests more fitting the character.

That's the thing isn't it?  I haven't seen anyone griping about the previous content because at those lower levels we're still "building our rep."  At level 100 we shouldn't be doing servant work because we've become established, inside the game, of doing some pretty epic stuff.  Yeah those menial tasks at the early stages suck but it's nowhere near as aggravating that I'm doing the same crap at 100.

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It's why I've come to the conclusion, LOTRO is what it is, flawed an all.  Just let it be.  Those flaws often become character traits.  it's when Turbine tries to meet the capricious demands of people like this, that the game truly goes to shit.

I've come to the conclusion that 100% of the (shit)posts you make are just bait, lol

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Leave it be, guys.

Tolkien fans are cringing at the poor writing in an MMO based on books... 

WB/Turbine/Peter Crapson fans are loving it, despite people crying "foul" over the writings of some hack that wrote a few books similar to WB's genius idea of Legends of Turbine's Revamps Online.

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That's why you need the Horns, Nonas, and Corunirs as they help stabilize the player experience because you work with them, and we associate experiences with the well developed characters, and it helps trigger memories and helps make us care. 

 

 ffs....i hate this quote system.  anyway, whatever happened to horn?  why did they stop weaving him into our story line?  are they just going to drop him into the mix once we hit pelennor fields and expect us to care about what happens next? he's been "out of the loop" for what...almost two years?

Edited by Papi
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This is all shit in response to the stupid criticisms like we're seeing here.  And ironically, the very same people criticizing the content, criticize the solutions too.  It's truly brilliant.

Quite a feat, misrepresenting everything like that.

What we did, in fact, see, was Turbine taking exactly the wrong cues from their populace, and then, thanks to the bean-counters meddling with the financing of the ideas, managing to garble up anything worthwhile and completely fucking up the end result.

It has ZILCH to do with player expectations being to blame.

End of story.

SNy

 

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Quite a feat, misrepresenting everything like that.

Oh, bullshit.  First, in order to misrepresent something, you have to represent it.  I'm certainly no representative of turbine.  I'm the guy who quit the PC because I found it pointless and who was threatened with a forum ban for "being too negative".  So let's come back to earth here.

 

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Yeah no.

It's not an us vs them thing, it's looking at what's being presented and analyzing the work for what it is, including the artistry and craftsmanship, as crude as either may be.

So in other words, you're willing to create drama and bitch, but unwilling to analyze, discuss, and engage your brain on something?

So you feel that other peoples opinions are nothing more than drama and bitching.  Good luck with that. 

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