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Update 17 - What is it?


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normally, i would simply ignore your doom and gloom attitude :)...but it's time to accept reality.  the game is a serious mess.  from an incomplete and inconsistent crafting update, to minas tirith being a laggy, game-crashing joke.  the sad part, the city looks amazing.  some of the halls and taverns you can really tell the world builders put their all into it.  but it's unplayable for a lot of people.

someone on the OF pointed out that as of last Thursday the exec producer said that this update would be coming in a "couple of weeks"...then, on Monday out of nowhere, it's announced it will be coming the next day.  something isn't right at Turbine at the moment.

It has always been the management.  And when I say management I mean WB.  There's no need to force this stuff out.  The playerbase that is left is there to stay, unless they really pissed them off.  Apparently:

34138407.jpg

Players understand delays much more than poor experience, especially when it comes to Lotro update releases.  How many times have we heard Lotro players say they would gladly wait for the content if it would help release it in a somewhat bugfree/usable state?   

 

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Oh!, I get it... you're rping a self-important douche.  Great job! you really got in touch with the character.

I guess if you eat shit long enough you acquire a taste for it.

Eh? I've been invoked, so I appear. (This forum is still the best source of actual information about updates so I've been lurking). My assessment of Minas Tirith is similar to Warspeech's. I'll add my

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This update is terrible.

I think I might be done with the game.

Up and down, up and down Minas Tirith. Talk to him, talk to her. 

This is not gameplay.

Minas Tirith is ugly and labyrinthlike. I keep getting lost.  I can't bring myself to log in to try and meander to where I need to get to to talk to a npc for the umpteenth time. 

And I crash every 5 minutes ..

Edited by Mallorn
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New updates have always been buggy.  Dunno what all this outrage is over.  I can be as critical of Turbine as anyone, but this outcry sounds like bitter people (and maybe justifiably so, no doubt), taking an opportunity to snipe.

I'm not bitter. Just telling it like it is. A crash every few minutes is not acceptable. The quests in this update are poorly designed. Minas Tirith is laggy and difficult to traverse. There is no need for all those talk to this person, talk to that person quests. One or two is fine, but the sheer number in this Update is ridiculous. They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. 

Edited by Mallorn
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I'm not bitter. Just telling it like it is. A crash every few minutes is not acceptable. The quests in this update are poorly designed. Minas Tirith is laggy and difficult to traverse. There is no need for all those talk to this person, talk to that person quests. One or two is fine, but the sheer number in this Update is ridiculous. They really are scraping the bottom of the barrel now. 

I'm not trying to offend anyone.  I think players have perfectly legit reasons to be bitter toward Turbine.  I just think criticism needs to be balanced, and the criticism of this update gives then impression that it's some kind of new low.  And that's just not the case.  There's been way worse throughout the years.  Server restarts, rollbacks, rubber banding type lag, invisible NPC's that you needed to advance the epic.  Anyone remeber Dead-Fall?  When ROI launched, every time I hovered over an item in my packs, I CTD'd.

In order for Turbine to hear criticism it's got to be balanced and rational.  This here and on the OF sounds a little hyperbolic. 

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 the criticism of this update gives then impression that it's some kind of new low.  And that's just not the case.

I am calling bullshit on this one. The lag, erasing so many German and French translations, the crashing, etc. all make this a new kind of low. I don't really care if once 4 years ago there was some problem. No one said this is the single worse release ever - we are just saying it is really bad.

Honestly, you just seem out of touch on this one. And lot of people on the official forums disagree with you - for them, this is pretty bad.

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I am calling bullshit on this one. The lag, erasing so many German and French translations, the crashing, etc. all make this a new kind of low. I don't really care if once 4 years ago there was some problem. No one said this is the single worse release ever - we are just saying it is really bad.

Honestly, you just seem out of touch on this one. And lot of people on the official forums disagree with you - for them, this is pretty bad.

The lag?  Seriously?  No, not even close to as bad as prior releases (possibly because there's alot less players, I'll grant you).  And please don't bring those noobs on the OF into this.  Most of them haven't been playing the game long enough to have experienced an actual xpac even.

I agree it's bad.  Hell, only my desktop can run the game now.  It's too much for my laptop which sucks.  And if you want to say, "Great, another botched launch from Turbine", I'm in agreement.  Wanna attribute this to some new sky is falling theory about server emergencies or layoffs (sorry Jup) or lack of resources, and I'm not going to buy it in this instance because it's no worse than others.  Localizations?  Seems the players are always fighting with Turbine over this, so I don't know how again this attributes to a new low.

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Seems the players are always fighting with Turbine over this, so I don't know how again this attributes to a new low.

How are you not understanding that Turbine completely erased the translations for thousands of items in the game? Yes, this is something new. It has never happened before, and it is the worst bug related to translations that the French and German servers have ever seen.

Plus, for French and German players, they screwed up the commands to let you type in fellowship chat. This never happened before.

And please don't bring in posts about layoffs. That has nothing to do with the severity of bugs in the update. Saying this update is pretty bad is only being realistic. 

Edited by nosam9
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The lag?  Seriously?  No, not even close to as bad as prior releases (possibly because there's alot less players, I'll grant you).  And please don't bring those noobs on the OF into this.  Most of them haven't been playing the game long enough to have experienced an actual xpac even.

I agree it's bad.  Hell, only my desktop can run the game now.  It's too much for my laptop which sucks.  And if you want to say, "Great, another botched launch from Turbine", I'm in agreement.  Wanna attribute this to some new sky is falling theory about server emergencies or layoffs (sorry Jup) or lack of resources, and I'm not going to buy it in this instance because it's no worse than others.  Localizations?  Seems the players are always fighting with Turbine over this, so I don't know how again this attributes to a new low.

i'm not offended at all. my speculation came from two motivations

1: the release of u17 was a no real notice, shoot from the hip deal. seems panicky

2: i didnt want to once again blame turbine and it's inept , clumsy, incompetent, track record. maybe i'm getting old and tired of slamming them and being right about it. 

Edited by juppy
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How are you not understanding that Turbine completely erased the translations for thousands of items in the game? Yes, this is something new. It has never happened before, and it is the worst bug related to translations that the French and German servers have ever seen.

Plus, for French and German players, they screwed up the commands to let you type in fellowship chat. This never happened before.

And please don't bring in posts about layoffs. That has nothing to do with the severity of bugs in the update. Saying this update is pretty bad is only being realistic. 

Most updates are bad.  They've been relatively good for Gondor, but that hasn't been the norm.  It's not that i'm not understanding Turbine erased translations, it's that it isn't some major sky is falling deal for me and like I said my first post, that's the impression I'm getting from a 10,000 foot level at all of the outcry, that the state of this update is surely telling us something more sinister than what it actually is. 

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Most updates are bad.  They've been relatively good for Gondor, but that hasn't been the norm.  It's not that i'm not understanding Turbine erased translations, it's that it isn't some major sky is falling deal for me and like I said my first post, that's the impression I'm getting from a 10,000 foot level at all of the outcry, that the state of this update is surely telling us something more sinister than what it actually is. 

Sinister? Lol

No.  

It is what it is.  No one is rejoicing.  No one has said the dreaded Lotro is dead tagline yet.  We even had a long outage a few years back and players complained then.  What's so different now?  They weren't bitter then?  Of course players are upset.  You should expect that.  They are supporting the game in a time when few are.  They want to be able to play it.  

The only thing sinister here is your comments sir.  Sure are painting a lot of people with the same brush.  If you don't want to hear complaining about poor development or management of a Turbine game I suggest you just play the game and stop visiting forums.  It might be more enjoyable.  

 

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i'm not offened at all. my speculation came from two motivations

1: the release of u17 was a no real notice, shoot from the hip deal. seems panicky

2: i didnt want to once again blame turbine and it's inept , clumsy, incompetent, track record. maybe i'm getting old and tired of slamming them and being right about it. 

1.  Panicky to me would be to not release it.  I think they got what they wanted out of beta and released it.  

2.  They've certainly never been shy about letting loose a certain level of bad in their releases.  Holding a releases costs them money so they are obviously reluctant to do it.  They always see spikes in player activity at releases so they probably thing the newness of the release will smother too much criticism and they can always *cough* do bug fixes later *cough*.

My guess is we'll see the first hotfix within the next 10 days.  It's likely the hotfix was being prepped before launch.

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Sinister? Lol

No.  

It is what it is.  No one is rejoicing.  No one has said the dreaded Lotro is dead tagline yet.  We even had a long outage a few years back and players complained then.  What's so different now?  They weren't bitter then?  Of course players are upset.  You should expect that.  They are supporting the game in a time when few are.  They want to be able to play it.  

The only thing sinister here is your comments sir.  Sure are painting a lot of people with the same brush.  If you don't want to hear complaining about poor development or management of a Turbine game I suggest you just play the game and stop visiting forums.  It might be more enjoyable.  

 

Yep, this kind of bitter hyperbole precisely.  Thank you.

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Yep, this kind of bitter hyperbole precisely.  Thank you.

I guess you don't know what the word means? What hyperbole is there in Quinn's post that you quote?

Hyperbole means "exaggerated statements or claims". What are the claims? There is none. 

You kind of have to back stuff up when you say it on these forums, or people will ask what are you talking about.

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I guess you don't know what the word means? What hyperbole is there in Quinn's post that you quote?

Hyperbole means "exaggerated statements or claims". What are the claims? There is none. 

You kind of have to back stuff up when you say it on these forums, or people will ask what are you talking about.

She "claimed" she was worried about my gaming experience. She's not.  She ignored the fact that I stated I wasn't trying to offend anyone then accused me of painting everyone with a wide brush, presumably herself, which implies a complaint of taking offense.  She's not that either. In both cases an exaggeration, and thus hyperbole.  Bitter because the last time she quoted me was to fight as well, a fight she backed out of, iirc.

People don't like turbine, so they are eager to pounce on any little flaw and exaggerate that flaw to attack, so I stand by thinking her post encapsulates perfectly what I'm seeing in alot of this uproar over U17.

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She "claimed" she was worried about my gaming experience. She's not.  She ignored the fact that I stated I wasn't trying to offend anyone then accused me of painting everyone with a wide brush, presumably herself, which implies a complaint of taking offense.  She's not that either. In both cases an exaggeration, and thus hyperbole.  Bitter because the last time she quoted me was to fight as well, a fight she backed out of, iirc.

People don't like turbine, so they are eager to pounce on any little flaw and exaggerate that flaw to attack, so I stand by thinking her post encapsulates perfectly what I'm seeing in alot of this uproar over U17.

The fact that the game crashes on ultra setting in Minas Tirith is not a little flaw. It is is major flaw and it is not good enough. You should not have to turn your game settings down on a high-end machine just so the client will not crash. It is not an exaggeration to complain about this. I refuse to lower my settings. I shouldn't have to.

Personally, for me, this is a new low. I can not play on the game on the settings I choose to without crashes.

I don't dislike Turbine, nor do I like them. I can have no feelings with regards to a company.  I'm ambivalent towards Turbine. If they do well, I praise, if they do bad, I criticise. No bitterness. No agenda.

I also personally think the quest lines in this update are awful and some of the worst since HD. There are far too many talk to NPC quests. I find Minas Tirith a chore to navigate which is not helped by the lag and terrible fps. To me, this update is a serious downgrade compared to the last 2. 

Edited by Mallorn
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This is what we're trying to get across to you, is that LotRO is not in a good state as it stands right now, because systems similar to mine should be able to run the game without issue.

If it works just fine for Dragon Age: Inquisition, Dreamfall: Chapters, and FFXIV, why am I having issues with LotRO?

But then surely this has been the case for years now? I remember the game constantly crashing on loading screens or in the middle of a raid.

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People don't like turbine, so they are eager to pounce on any little flaw and exaggerate that flaw to attack, so I stand by thinking her post encapsulates perfectly what I'm seeing in alot of this uproar over U17.

Because they never earned that at all ...

Here's an (edited) dxdiag of my desktop:

         Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 10240) (10240.th1.150930-1750)
                Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770K CPU @ 3.50GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.5GHz
                   Memory: 16384MB RAM
          DirectX Version: 12
           DxDiag Version: 10.00.10240.16384 64bit Unicode

          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 770
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
        Device Type: Full Device
   Dedicated Memory: 4026 MB

^== That should not have issues.

LotRO is not stable, it's even running LotRO off of the second SSD (first is the C:\, d:\ is a 1TB HDD).  This is what we're trying to get across to you, is that LotRO is not in a good state as it stands right now, because systems similar to mine should be able to run the game without issue.

If it works just fine for Dragon Age: Inquisition, Dreamfall: Chapters, and FFXIV, why am I having issues with LotRO?

LOTRO is a horrid resource hog, when compared to other games.  GW2, CO, STO, and SWTOR don't offer the same problems that LOTRO does from a resource use end.  Even during SoA beta, it was known as a "comp killer".

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She "claimed" she was worried about my gaming experience. She's not.  She ignored the fact that I stated I wasn't trying to offend anyone then accused me of painting everyone with a wide brush, presumably herself, which implies a complaint of taking offense.  She's not that either. In both cases an exaggeration, and thus hyperbole.  Bitter because the last time she quoted me was to fight as well, a fight she backed out of, iirc.

People don't like turbine, so they are eager to pounce on any little flaw and exaggerate that flaw to attack, so I stand by thinking her post encapsulates perfectly what I'm seeing in alot of this uproar over U17.

First off I'm a man.   Secondly you can't make a statement and later say youre not trying to offend anyone.  

You came for the fight.  Generally I like most of your points.  I just think you're taking it personally.  I don't like Turbine and what fan of Lotro would?  

You were here complaining about complaining, but in this case the players have a right to do just that.  Like I said what's the difference in the complaints now rather than 1 year ago, 2 years ago? 8 years ago.  Are players not allowed to hold the developer responsible for their actions?  Even some of the most die hard Lotro players are here losing hope.  Usually the ones standing up for the game.  

Lastly its not a single flaw being pointed out in this thread but several.  Not just a very horrible launch but poor gameplay.  I've tried to experience the content on my nephews account but it crashes to the desktop every 3 mins.  And here I was after 3 years of not playing giving Turbine a third shot.  Shame on me apparently.  

Will they fix it?  More than likely yes.  Will players continue to voice there complaints when launches go this way and gameplay continues to get poorer?  They've been doing it since launch.  

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Because they never earned that at all ...

"I'm not trying to offend anyone.  I think players have perfectly legit reasons to be bitter toward Turbine."  If you're going to quote me, read what I fucking write.

 

The fact that the game crashes on ultra setting in Minas Tirith is not a little flaw.

This game has been crashing since MORIA.  

1.  Secondly you can't make a statement and later say youre not trying to offend anyone.  

2.  Like I said what's the difference in the complaints now rather than 1 year ago, 2 years ago? 8 years ago.  Are players not allowed to hold the developer responsible for their actions?  Even some of the most die hard Lotro players are here losing hope.  Usually the ones standing up for the game.  

3.  Lastly its not a single flaw being pointed out in this thread but several.

1.  I can.  And I did.  I have an opinion, it doesn't mean I don't think people have a right to theirs.

2.  Nothing, and that's again exactly my point.  If they're the same complaints, and LOTRO's managed to limp along through those years, then the complaints this year aren't going to kick off something new.

3.  As with every other update.

I'm not against the complaints.  I just think there's nothing to support this idea that this round of failure is due to anything other than what it has been for the previous 16 updates.  It's just Turbine, not stress tests, or blood moons, or expiring contracts, or whatever.  It's just a thing, like the previous 16 things.  

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"I'm not trying to offend anyone.  I think players have perfectly legit reasons to be bitter toward Turbine."  If you're going to quote me, read what I fucking write.

 

This game has been crashing since MORIA.  

1.  I can.  And I did.  I have an opinion, it doesn't mean I don't think people have a right to theirs.

2.  Nothing, and that's again exactly my point.  If they're the same complaints, and LOTRO's managed to limp along through those years, then the complaints this year aren't going to kick off something new.

3.  As with every other update.

I'm not against the complaints.  I just think there's nothing to support this idea that this round of failure is due to anything other than what it has been for the previous 16 updates.  It's just Turbine, not stress tests, or blood moons, or expiring contracts, or whatever.  It's just a thing, like the previous 16 things.  

hmm...

about this update specifically, i think people had high expectations (although looking back, i'm not sure why).  minas tirith is a goal post, a significant point not only in the story but in the game as well.  and they fucked it up.  and there is a lot going on in the background that points to the fact that this update should have never gone live, at least not for another two weeks.  so, people are pointing that out.  maybe they are just looking for a reason, or to understand why it was released in the state it was in.  maybe the it's-just-turbine-being-turbine-again excuse has finally played itself out.  also, i think human nature comes into play.

stop being so snooty, snow! :)

 

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This game has been crashing since MORIA.  

Not for me it hasn't.

I can only go off my experience. For the first time in all my years playing LOTRO, I can not play the game without it crashing. 

And why should your above quote be an excuse? Oh, its okay my computer crashes every few minutes in Minas Tirith, the game's been doing that since Moria. It's just one its quirks.

Yes, many people may have had crashes in the past too. But many of these complaints are not just about the crashing; they are about the poorly designed gameplay in this update,

You keep harping on about how people are saying this update is a new low. Well, compared to the previous 2 updates' game play, many think it is. Many felt the game had improved. You could see the improved quality. With this update, they feel that this trend of improvement may well have ended. 

This response to this update is logical and not exaggerated.  

You're criticising people who are making legitimate complaints. 

All you are doing is making excuses for Turbine.

You say you don't think this will have an effect on Turbine.

The fact is, years ago people put up with the crashing because the game at least had some decent game play. There is no reason to put up with it any more as the content is just so poor. 

I've stopped playing so that's one customer they've lost. I can't bring myself to play this new update as I find it mind numbing and I see no game play value in navigating Minas Tirith's terribly designed, labyrinth streets to talk to NPC after NPC - it's filler content. How many silent customers are also going to walk away in disgust? If you're not having fun, there is no reason to play any more. 

Edited by Mallorn
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I see Chrome is having fits with this sites quoting system again. 

 

 

Mallorn, it's not an excuse.  I'm not excusing the shoddy work they did on U17.  Why can't you folks just read what I"m saying instead of imagining I'm saying something else?  Look, reread my posts on the matter and then come on back.  If you have something to say to me that actually pertains to what I wrote, then I'm happy to discuss it.

Pappi, I'm not being snooty :)  I'm just frustrated with the fact that just because I'm not wearing some tinfoil hat when it comes to this latest buggy launch, people are getting offended.  I agree with you on the human nature part, most definitely. 

Edited by Snowlock
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A. This game has been crashing since MORIA.  

1.  I can.  And I did.  I have an opinion, it doesn't mean I don't think people have a right to theirs.

2.  Nothing, and that's again exactly my point.  If they're the same complaints, and LOTRO's managed to limp along through those years, then the complaints this year aren't going to kick off something new.

3.  As with every other update.

I'm not against the complaints.  I just think there's nothing to support this idea that this round of failure is due to anything other than what it has been for the previous 16 updates.  It's just Turbine, not stress tests, or blood moons, or expiring contracts, or whatever.  It's just a thing, like the previous 16 things.  

A.    As far as crashing goes, I played Lotro as a regular player from June 2008 - Septemeber 2013 and you can probably include my HD experience although I was skimming the content and not hardcore.  I've seen the content in game from HD/Fangorn forward, but haven't seen it as an actual player but rather an observer watching my nephew who still plays.  This latest release was the first time I sat behind a keyboard and actually partook in the adventure.  I have never seen anything this bad.  Sure the other releases had their own problems, but I can not think of a time where I crashed to the desktop like this release unless you count every time I exited the game manually after ROR release.  Having to actually stop the process to get the game to quit while it hogged nearly 5 gb of my memory.  If the game had been crashing since moria as reliably as it does with the release of MT I certainly would have stopped my sub back then and saved $629.37 in sub fees and $108 dollars in xpacs (after moria) And nearly 100$ in TP purchases.  Not to mention the mithril pack I bought with a game stop gift card.  I think that was 15.99 at the time.  Sure it had problems but nothing like I have seen recently.  Even Lagtrev had less problems than MT and that used to irritate the hell out of me.  Tell these developers to stop using phasing to be lazy lol.

1. Subjective.  But I guess it's ok if I tell you not to be offended and call you an asshole?

2.   The complainers are different this time.  That is the biggest difference.  The people who usually criticize the so called "haters", the ones still playing the game and the ones who normally defend Turbine no matter how much shit they are made to eat.  This was certainly a new phenomenon for them.   Sure Turbine has been able to limp along through all the bad development and bugs.  That's says more about the popularity of the IP rather than the enjoyability (not sure if word)  of the game.  If it was set in Rifts, Wildstars or Secret Worlds universes, it would be tossed aside like many other games.

3.  That's a given.  Only because the development team is reduced to rubble.

I see Chrome is having fits with this sites quoting system again. 

Mallorn, it's not an excuse.  I'm not excusing the shoddy work they did on U17.  Why can't you folks just read what I"m saying instead of imagining I'm saying something else?  Look, reread my posts on the matter and then come on back.  If you have something to say to me that actually pertains to what I wrote, then I'm happy to discuss it.

Pappi, I'm not being snooty :)  I'm just frustrated with the fact that just because I'm not wearing some tinfoil hat when it comes to this latest buggy launch, people are getting offended.  I agree with you on the human nature part, most definitely. 

You said this: "In order for Turbine to hear criticism it's got to be balanced and rational."

No.  It needs to be truthful.  We've heard you bitch about the game enough to know that you're not some crazed fanboy.   While the gameplay issues are subjective the crash to desktop is not, and nothing I have ever seen in Lotro while playing.  You're saying that players are coming up with sky is falling scenarios for this release as if it's the first time Turbine has ever fucked up like this and that they should consider the past when making present statements.  It doesn't mean the end of Lotro but you can bet it's going to cause canceled subs and possibly a few less players floating around.  Those folks are voicing their frustrations.  For some it's just opening their eyes for others it's a final straw.  For my nephew it is his final straw.   He's playing on my brothers old lifetime account so Turbine will not be losing a ton of money from him.  

Balanced and rational is usually just a bullshit way of saying we don't care about your feedback when we are at fault and we will twist the facts to suit our liking.  Ask Fox News, it's practically their tag line.  I'm not saying the current Lotro staff thinks that way.   As far as we can all tell it's out of their control.  I'm almost 100% positive WB forced this release out.

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