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LordVorontur

Data Centre Move on 11th January 2016.

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4 hours ago, Fredelas said:

As I mentioned, I don't think the whole problem is whether the OS is 32-bit or 64-bit. I think some of the problem is whether the OS is Windows NT Server 4.0 or Windows Server 2012 R2. (I'm just picking those two as extremes. I have no idea which actual server OS Turbine uses.)

Just as one example, try installing SQL Server 7.0 on Windows Server 2012 R2 and tell me how that works out for you.

But that would tie in with what I said earlier.

They had been talking about having tested everything, and even mentioned spectacular performance, months ago. Presumably, without them talking utter bullshit every time they hit their keyboards, incompatibilities pertaining to their actual base software stack should have been resolved at that time, no?

SNy

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Yeah I somehow doubt that their new hardware runs NT 4.0. Useless comment.

As we've seen in the other thread they run FreeBSD.

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Doesn't really matter what they run while the performance is shitty. The key issue still is the fact that it's an old old engine that is probably not equipped at handling all the newfangled shit they've tried to staple to it.

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1 hour ago, LordVorontur said:

Doesn't really matter what they run while the performance is shitty. The key issue still is the fact that it's an old old engine that is probably not equipped at handling all the newfangled shit they've tried to staple to it.

After a year of crap performance being excused on the OF by "oh, that's because they're taking their time to work out the migration carefully so there's no hiccups when they move", we now have crap performance that doesn't look much different being excused on the OF by "oh, that's because no matter how much you plan, you can't tell what will really happen till you get to the new hardware".

I'm with SNy on this one.

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The main performance problem we're facing is that it doesn't matter how optimized the backend is if you've got a client program that's an unoptimized mess.  Everyone sees the client problem, and throws in the towel as the server upgrade did nothing - despite that possibly being far from the truth.

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40 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

The main performance problem we're facing is that it doesn't matter how optimized the backend is if you've got a client program that's an unoptimized mess.  Everyone sees the client problem, and throws in the towel as the server upgrade did nothing - despite that possibly being far from the truth.

This is a very good point, and one I often forget. It's very possible that this relocation removed or improved some potential bottlenecks. But as long as other worse bottlenecks still exist either in the server, client, or both, we'll never realize the benefits of those other improvements.

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14 hours ago, SNy said:

Presumably, without them talking utter bullshit every time they hit their keyboards,

SNy

Spot on. 

 

No matter what individual talent Turbine's got, as a company it is a cesspool of imbecility. 

Playing LOTRO again after a hiatus of 2-3 years. Still impressed by the size, scope, effort. Pity all this is ruined by corporate dementia and soon to be closed down.

And I still claim that The Rift was the best raid of all the MMO's I've played, requiring mastery of group and individual skills . Now, all this content is just re-cycled garbage. 

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12 hours ago, Fredelas said:

This is a very good point, and one I often forget. It's very possible that this relocation removed or improved some potential bottlenecks. But as long as other worse bottlenecks still exist either in the server, client, or both, we'll never realize the benefits of those other improvements.

If we're being optimistic here, removing some of the server bottlenecks were necessary, as it allows Turbine an easier time identifying and fixing the client bottlenecks.

While I don't expect the client to become magically on par with something like FFXIV (which is proving to be a better alternative to LotRO IMO), it might help get things sane again for LotRO.

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The Asheron's Call players have been dealing with crap performance for 5 weeks now:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594108-Cancelling-My-Subscription&p=7522867#post7522867

"You might be waiting for a long time... I've just been reading some threads over at the Asheron's Call forums (a game I don't play), and things don't look promising. They're at five weeks of login/lag/crashing issues and counting:

(there should be links to three threads in the AC forums here, they don't come up in this post for some reason. Check the post I linked above to get those links if you're interested) 


I expect that LOTRO might be a higher priority for Turbine at this point than a game that has been in maintenance mode for a long time, but... still. Sweet mother of Eru. It blows my mind a little that they've been putting up with this BS for more than a month."

People who have decided to stop playing till things get better (seeing more of those kinds of posts on the OF this weekend) might be best served checking out other games to play in the meantime...

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56 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

Identifying client bottlenecks?

Simple. OLD ENGINE NOT BUILT FOR ALL THE SHIT THEY'VE ADDED TO IT OVER THE YEARS!

That's the difference between amateurs and professionals. WoW is going on its 12th year, added tons of "shit" over the years including improved textures, graphics, longer view distance, better shaders, and yes, even DX11 but with meaningful and visible improvements and not just fluff like LOTRO, and yet the game runs smooth as silk and the combat responsiveness is still better than LOTRO's has ever been...

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LOTRO is the only game that has performance issues for me on my current setup.  GW2, SWTOR, STO (although that game has other bugs) ... no issues, no hitching (except for STO's connectivity issues, which aren't graphics-related), smooth avatar movement, smooth scrolling environments.  LOTRO is the only game that isn't keeping up.

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4 hours ago, Palpatine said:

That's the difference between amateurs and professionals. WoW is going on its 12th year, added tons of "shit" over the years including improved textures, graphics, longer view distance, better shaders, and yes, even DX11 but with meaningful and visible improvements and not just fluff like LOTRO, and yet the game runs smooth as silk and the combat responsiveness is still better than LOTRO's has ever been...

To be fair Blizzard didn't do countless rounds of layoffs over the years gutting it's system expertise. All the while simultaneously increasing the scope of what they WANTed to do and only realizing something is not viable 1/2 way through.. At this point a cheer should go up anytime the power button on a server blade works at Turbine.

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On 18.01.2016 at 10:07 PM, Palpatine said:

That's the difference between amateurs and professionals. WoW is going on its 12th year, added tons of "shit" over the years including improved textures, graphics, longer view distance, better shaders, and yes, even DX11 but with meaningful and visible improvements and not just fluff like LOTRO, and yet the game runs smooth as silk and the combat responsiveness is still better than LOTRO's has ever been...

While WoW is tanking hard it is still very popular and brings lots of revenue.   Kinda silly to compare it with some obscure small playerbase niche mmorpg like Lotro.

Even if Lotro employees and management would be best professionals in whole industry, it would not help much if/when there is simply not enough people and budget to develop and manage game properly.

 

You want quality you need to pay good money, simple as that.  Goes both for consumers and employees.

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the OF continues to baffle me.  Frelorn got rid of the original "stickied" thread behind the guise of "it was getting too long and a new one is easier to read through"...but that is just PR speak for a smaller thread filled with complaints and issues looks better than a huge one.  and let's face it, if he was doing his job, the size of the thread really wouldn't matter.

the sad part, when things show signs of getting marginally better people get all excited--all while not realizing that even a better situation on the new hardware is still worse than how things were on the old hardware.  and I can't help but think of when Frelorn boasted at how super duper the new data center would be and how they didn't really need to keep 10 servers open, that the new hardware could easily handle the whole population with just two servers.  yeah, sure.

and can someone please tell why the fuck IC is still listed at the top of their website?  didn't that massive failure shut down over 6 months ago??

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2 hours ago, Papi said:

the OF continues to baffle me.  Frelorn got rid of the original "stickied" thread behind the guise of "it was getting too long and a new one is easier to read through"...but that is just PR speak for a smaller thread filled with complaints and issues looks better than a huge one.

Yeah, they're probably hoping for it to sink out of sight in the next few days. Sweeping their dirt under the carpet.

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If you read the last 15 posts in that long Official thread, you will see why Freelorn closed it. Nothing too bad, but a few people were starting to strongly question and criticize Turbine. We can't have that now.  

_________________________________________________________________________

These seems (to me) to be a new current of discontent in the Official Forums, including players discussing how they refuse to answer about the servers moving to the EU. It looks to me like Turbine either has decided not to move them, or has decided to wait and decide later. It seems very unlikely they are still planning to move them to the EU and just are refusing to tell us that. 

This gem got shut down as fast as Freelorn could type another non-answer.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594987-Vyvyanne-Where-is-the-official-information-on-EU-datacenter-you-promissed

EDIT: And Frelorn removed his reply from the Dev Tracker! 

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5 hours ago, MusicMachine said:

Yeah, they're probably hoping for it to sink out of sight in the next few days. Sweeping their dirt under the carpet.

 

1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

If you read the last 15 posts in that long Official thread, you will see why Freelorn closed it. Nothing too bad, but a few people were starting to strongly question and criticize Turbine. We can't have that now.  

_________________________________________________________________________

These seems (to me) to be a new current of discontent in the Official Forums, including players discussing how they refuse to answer about the servers moving to the EU. It looks to me like Turbine either has decided not to move them, or has decided to wait and decide later. It seems very unlikely they are still planning to move them to the EU and just are refusing to tell us that. 

This gem got shut down as fast as Freelorn could type another non-answer.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594987-Vyvyanne-Where-is-the-official-information-on-EU-datacenter-you-promissed

Agreed.  The first thread has already dropped off the front page for me.  Let's preserve the link here just for old time's sake:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?593588-Servers-are-back-Online-Official-Thread&p=7515582#post7515582

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1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

If you read the last 15 posts in that long Official thread, you will see why Freelorn closed it. Nothing too bad, but a few people were starting to strongly question and criticize Turbine. We can't have that now.  

_________________________________________________________________________

These seems (to me) to be a new current of discontent in the Official Forums, including players discussing how they refuse to answer about the servers moving to the EU. It looks to me like Turbine either has decided not to move them, or has decided to wait and decide later. It seems very unlikely they are still planning to move them to the EU and just are refusing to tell us that. 

This gem got shut down as fast as Freelorn could type another non-answer.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594987-Vyvyanne-Where-is-the-official-information-on-EU-datacenter-you-promissed

In all fairness, the non-response is actually the smart thing to do here as it lets them fight the issues on only one front, instead of two.

Look at it this way, do you want to deal with the issues NA is currently facing in EU, and potentially get the two server groups out of sync causing God knows what other issues?

This is one time where you need to give Turbine patience, and THEN crucify them once they fail to deliver an EU data center.  Crucifying Turbine for holding up for the EU transfer while they are fixing issues with their current server implementation is actually a premature crucifixion.

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3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

In all fairness, the non-response is actually the smart thing to do here

Not at all. This is not a sudden crisis. They have had 2 weeks to say "we are still planning on moving the servers to the EU". They have been unable to say that. It is pretty clear at this point they do NOT have a plan to move the servers to the EU. They have either decided No, or they are going to decide later.   

They just don't want to face the backlash when they admit they are not going to do it.

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22 minutes ago, nosam9 said:

Not at all. This is not a sudden crisis. They have had 2 weeks to say "we are still planning on moving the servers to the EU". They have been unable to say that. It is pretty clear at this point they do NOT have a plan to move the servers to the EU. They have either decided No, or they are going to decide later.   

They just don't want to face the backlash when they admit they are not going to do it.

Or things have gone so catastrophically wrong with the NA/EU migration to the new data center that communications are even worse than normal.

Either way, this is a text book example of how not to do a datacenter migration.

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Here are instructions Turbine is giving to their costumers in order to play the game with their fancy new datacenter: 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594790-Port-Forwarding-update-and-changes-Important!&highlight=triggering

I'm no expert, but this seems like a lot of hoops for players to jump through to make Turbine's game work properly.

It's all rather moot for me since I cannot even log in. Just get a 'Installing Pre-Reqs' message. :/  

 

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Just an addition to the above:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594793-Official-New-Server-Hardware-Thread&p=7523627#post7523627

Frelorn is offlineCommunity Manager
 
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The port forwarding change is just for those folks who are already having to do this for whatever reason. All we are pointing out is that the port range has changed, which for most users will not matter and they have no need to do this.

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