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LordVorontur

Data Centre Move on 11th January 2016.

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5 hours ago, Tinker said:

Here are instructions Turbine is giving to their costumers in order to play the game with their fancy new datacenter: 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594790-Port-Forwarding-update-and-changes-Important!&highlight=triggering

I'm no expert, but this seems like a lot of hoops for players to jump through to make Turbine's game work properly.

It's all rather moot for me since I cannot even log in. Just get a 'Installing Pre-Reqs' message. :/  

 

I had the "stuck at Installing Pre-Reqs" thing happening for a few days this week on my copy of the Bullroarer client.  I'd never had that problem before, and I hadn't made any changes to anything on my computer (I manage updates myself, don't let them auto-install).  Yesterday I tried it again and it magically worked fine again.

That doesn't help in your case, I know, but I did want to let you know that sometimes it clears up all by itself.  I have seen threads on the OF about that problem, don't know if there's anything useful in them but maybe you can look there.

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Here's a new one. Tinker, maybe it's just as well that you're having problems if this is the kind of thing that'll happen in the game now - 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594793-Official-New-Server-Hardware-Thread&p=7525828#post7525828

"New problem to add to the list with random disconnects.... Unable to cross world zone boundaries. My character was trying to go from Bruinen Source West to Bruinen Source North and rubberbanded back to BS West no matter how many times I tried and even restarting client did not help. My internet is good and pings to other addresses fine. Several Players in World chat were reporting same problem at the time.

Problem: Can not cross world zone boundaries; results in rubberbanding back to originating zone.
Server: Crickhollow 4:45pm est
Bug report submitted ingame."

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2 hours ago, warspeech said:

Here's a new one. Tinker, maybe it's just as well that you're having problems if this is the kind of thing that'll happen in the game now - 

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?594793-Official-New-Server-Hardware-Thread&p=7525828#post7525828

"New problem to add to the list with random disconnects.... Unable to cross world zone boundaries. My character was trying to go from Bruinen Source West to Bruinen Source North and rubberbanded back to BS West no matter how many times I tried and even restarting client did not help. My internet is good and pings to other addresses fine. Several Players in World chat were reporting same problem at the time.

Problem: Can not cross world zone boundaries; results in rubberbanding back to originating zone.
Server: Crickhollow 4:45pm est
Bug report submitted ingame."

Thanks Warspeech. Yes, I finally was able to connect tonight. Have lost connection almost every time I walk into a room or port to another area. It's super annoying. Folks on wc are joking about the Turbine hamsters dying.

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On 1/18/2016 at 3:38 AM, Jedy2 said:

And I still claim that The Rift was the best raid of all the MMO's I've played, requiring mastery of group and individual skills . Now, all this content is just re-cycled garbage. 

People like me never got to enjoy it.  I joined the game too late for it to give for-the-time top level gear and I never found a group at appropriate levels when I had a character in the right levels.  

The never scaled that raid so that settles it.

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On 1/17/2016 at 3:33 PM, Almagnus1 said:

The main performance problem we're facing is that it doesn't matter how optimized the backend is if you've got a client program that's an unoptimized mess.  Everyone sees the client problem, and throws in the towel as the server upgrade did nothing - despite that possibly being far from the truth.

first week after the move was horrendous!  that first Friday downtime after the data center move seemed to improve some of the most egregious issues with movement and skill delays.  but disconnects persisted into the following week, (as well as other loading issues.)

the last downtime, think it was a (Thursday) now seems to have addressed some of the disconnections.

so whilst things have improved, it certainly still doesn't feel like a total improvement...  i still get occasional vault or AH lag, & whilst my character movement in game has improved (both in and out of combat) & in the crowds of Dol Amroth or Bree, or alone on the landscape...  on occasion i will still get the frame rate jankyness & screen hitching, or micro lags.  vault lag still happens, though less frequent.

there is still room for improvement on the back end, but i too wonder how long it will be before those improvements run headlong into a wall by issues with the client.

anyway, one of the biggest improvements for me has been load times.  with the exception of when the load hangs on some data that it can't quite process, that in the past was resulting in a high number of disconnects...  everything loads pretty fast for me now.  if i escape through the opening Warner Bros. & Turbine logo animations to the character screen...  from log-in to having an actual character in game is usually under 30 seconds.  portals (that don't hang on data, or disconnect) are almost instant, or by a second, give or take microseconds.

whilst i haven't done much in the way of using a warsteed, basic mount movement & character movement through the world is improved, though the occasional jankyess, while less frequent than before, is still too frequent.

so i indeed wonder how long it will be before the client issues must also be addressed if they intend to see the full benefit of this data center move.

also from what i have heard, PvMP is still a clusterfuck.  that new Osgiliath map sure fell short.

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On 23.01.2016 at 4:28 AM, Darmokk said:

People like me never got to enjoy it.  I joined the game too late for it to give for-the-time top level gear and I never found a group at appropriate levels when I had a character in the right levels.  

The never scaled that raid so that settles it.

Scaled raid would not get you even close to same expeirence.  

For good content you need it to be done by hand for players at specific point in game.

Scaling will only give you poor imitiation always. 

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7 hours ago, drul said:

Scaled raid would not get you even close to same expeirence.  

For good content you need it to be done by hand for players at specific point in game.

Scaling will only give you poor imitiation always. 

I second this.  Real progression raiding ended with ToO.  That scaled crap was just that.  I've raided in 4 different mmos.  Lotro easily had the least content but the early stuff was well thought out.  

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Even the original Helegrod (before it got sundered into the four snoozefests) had interesting mechanics and concepts, it just had WAAAAAAY too much trash.

IIRC even Vanilla WoW had more instances than LotRO does as it stands now, so did FFXIV ARR before they started expanding it.

On the bright side, I think we all learned that recycling old content without completely reworking the instance or mechanics (which is what FFXIV does) leads to a craptastic experience.

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13 hours ago, drul said:

Scaled raid would not get you even close to same expeirence.  

For good content you need it to be done by hand for players at specific point in game.

Scaling will only give you poor imitiation always. 

Well I wasn't saying it should have been scaled in the first place.

I am using it as an example why it is bad to constantly devalue achievement.  This constant increase in max level, in exchange usually for mindless grind and bad feeling awards, doesn't really lead anywhere.

It would have been much better to put an exponential curve at growth so that a larger number of player's characters are compressed in a space where they can all have a fun challenge in some of the prime content not released this year.

Yes, that particularly applies if the content release in the last 12 months is boring grind in the first place.

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since my last post back at the end of January, most of the gains i was experiencing have evaporated, or diminished.  game is now much like it was in every respect before the data center move, or worse.

i think they got it to a point of function & are now once again dialing back the bandwidth incrementally to the point of cost savings where complaints & grievances are at expected and acceptable levels.

i won't put the final nail in the coffin until they shut those 19 servers off for log-ins as that will no doubt drastically alter how resources are going to be allocated from that point on, but that will be the last point in time where i will say there may be improvements...

given Turbines track record, it is highly unlikely.  and it looks likely that this data center move, whilst on newer hardware with more robust memory set ups was a selling point...  with each passing day, it is looking to be entirely in the category of a cheaper hosting contract, over any other reason.

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8 hours ago, Dalthalion said:

Is the name of the hosting company public knowledge?

It wouldn't matter if it's some random datacenter company, or a cloud server setup from Google, Amazon, or Microsoft.

The end result is going to be the same if they are cutting back bandwidth, despite the faster hardware.  The entire playerbase loses.

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I cannot imagine we are looking at a plain problem of not buying enough bandwidth.

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

I cannot imagine we are looking at a plain problem of not buying enough bandwidth.

if you are paying attention to what i actual wrote...  the first week post data center move was horrendous; then they addressed some of that, but disconnects were still abundant in frequency.  they addressed the bulk of disconnects as well & at by that point things were OK, (passable/average.)  i would have even said, better than before the data center move.  but that passable state was short lived.

the point where i state they may be dialing back the bandwidth is in addition too the other issues.  which has resulted in my noticing a slow diminishing of performance over the past 2 weeks.

it could also be something chronically wrong with how the system accesses/makes available/utilizes memory, possibly both.  but the frequency & severity of circumstances when things don't just lag in response, but in worst cases actually go brain dead, has been incrementally increasing over the past 2 weeks.  & it is most dramatically noticed in instanced content...  from storied instances to Epic Big Battles, (solo or group.)  but general landscape movement & combat has also taken a hit over time.

& of course before some smart ass chirps in & blames my system, or connection/provider...  user end lag will not stop a mob from continuing to beat you down.  years ago when i DID have a substandard system, lag on my end would never stop a mob from continuing to lay out a beating on me.  now i am experiencing mobs on open landscape going completely brain-dead, or spawn timers stalling out, etc.  & it gets worse in an instance.  i can only imagine how bad PvMP must get.  regardless, the stuff i am describing is server side.  what is amazing is during all this skill lock-up, or interfaces that stop responding...  i am still able to move about & if i am not on a war-mount, that movement in most cases is unimpeded by frame hitching, or other forms of movement lag.

anyway Darmokk, Turbine have been working on issues & will likely continue to tune things in major ways until after the 19 servers close on April 4th...

right now, some of the most mundane systems lag, or just utterly stop responding all together.  & this past weekend (same goes for mid-week) was worse than the previous & we both know it isn't because there are more players.

 

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Number of players is at an all time low totally, although not per server, obviously.

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DDO got moved to the new datacenter yesterday.  They got one day advance notice.  (They had been told early March, but not specifically when until the day before it happened.  People are experiencing lag - what a surprise!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/472958-Downtime-Notice-5-00-AM-5-00-PM-Eastern-(-5-GMT)-Tuesday-March-8th

 

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1 hour ago, warspeech said:

DDO got moved to the new datacenter yesterday.  They got one day advance notice.  

That's ugly. Something must have happened to do it so suddenly.

edit:
I love the guy on the DDO forums telling everyone that the Lotro move went pretty well and the game plays better than before. And that players are only upset because there will be no EU server - not because of any server/performance issues.

_____________________________________________

What I want to know is how is it OK with players that the new servers have so many problems and they haven't fixed them for so long. I can't imagine a bigger fail that they could allow to remain unfixed.

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1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

What I want to know is how is it OK with players that the new servers have so many problems and they haven't fixed them for so long. I can't imagine a bigger fail that they could allow to remain unfixed.

It's because most players have utter crap for computers, so those us with actual gaming machines are the minority.  Most of the issues they are more than willing to blame on the older machine, and it just works.

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's because most players have utter crap for computers, so those us with actual gaming machines are the minority.  Most of the issues they are more than willing to blame on the older machine, and it just works.

Which they've been doing for years and it's worked so well they've even got the other players doing it.  Some people actually believe that a person should put 1500 dollar video cards in their pcs to get a 9 yr old game to run smoothly.  Most people are nice enough when they suggest someone upgrade their pc but there are the few that say things like "Stop being a poor piece of shit and get a better computer."  

Now I'm off to go bend space and time on my quantum computer that can't play Lotro.

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6 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

Now I'm off to go bend space and time on my quantum computer that can't play Lotro.

Did you try port forwarding. Turbine staff are now telling DDO players they may need to change their port forwarding. (No, I am not joking - they are telling DDO players this).

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From Vyv, late this afternoon:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?602335-No-news-is-good-news&p=7551489#post7551489

"As stated before we upgraded may different systems when we did this move, so the performance issues you are reporting are coming from a number of different areas. There fore there will be several fixes involved here, not just one fix to rule them all.

The maintenance restarts are to prevent the login error that gave the "server full message" we believe we have a fix that is being tested internally now and will require a patch to fix on live. Until we are fully through testing on that and patch we will continue the restarts to keep the error from occurring.

Additionally we are working on some performance improvements that we hope will help with the loading and lag issues in the MT, Pelennor and PvMP areas. These are also in development and internal testing and we hope to have them out on Bullroarer along with U18 content for testing soon. 

The ISP issues are something we have to work through with other companies, and due to that is not something I can give timelines on but we are in daily conversations with them as we pass along data for them to analyze and adjust accordingly. 

This is not a matter of just a switch somewhere someone forgot to flip, this is a matter of adjusting code that is over 9 years old from the Operating system it was built on to a new one, hardware it was built for to newer hardware, and internet routes that had been set in place to new ones. There are many kinks to work out along the way. Some of the changes will occur in the background, such as the ISP corrections without us knowing, and the client side ones have to go though the full patch/ update process before they can go live and we are getting through that as quickly as we can. We just dont have anything to show you on that yet, but as soon as we do, we will let you know.

Thank you,
Vyvyanne"

Meanwhile, in DDO-land, there is now a lag thread in General Discussion:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/473027-Lag-after-data-centre-move

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Vyvanne's message in short form:

We are still trying. We have no idea how to fix it. We will blame the ISPs.

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"  this is a matter of adjusting code that is over 9 years old from the Operating system it was built on to a new one."

This is the first time I can recall them ever mentioning code as a big culprit.  Perhaps Vyv has finally realized that some of the player base aren't single celled morons conceived by a lucky sperm with too many chromosomes.

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46 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

"  this is a matter of adjusting code that is over 9 years old from the Operating system it was built on to a new one."

This is the first time I can recall them ever mentioning code as a big culprit.  Perhaps Vyv has finally realized that some of the player base aren't single celled morons conceived by a lucky sperm with too many chromosomes.

I think it could also be the first step in a gradual, "break-it-to-the-player-base-gently" series of communications that will end up eventually in "We've done all we can do to fix performance short of rewriting the client code completely, and unfortunately that is not something we can take on with the resources we have available.  Of course we will continue to monitor and adjust settings as appropriate but we feel that the bulk of the performance tuning we are able to do is now complete.  Thank you for your patience."

It sounds like she's preparing people to accept things as they are now, or move on.

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