Jump to content
LOTROCommunity
LordVorontur

Data Centre Move on 11th January 2016.

Recommended Posts

But there was widespread hope that Lotro would be put on better servers, and performance would increase. Freelorn and Vyvanne led people to believe this, with talk of "we could put all the servers on one server" etc.

They never came out before and admitted they were moving the servers to reduce costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

27 minutes ago, nosam9 said:

But there was widespread hope that Lotro would be put on better servers, and performance would increase. Freelorn and Vyvanne led people to believe this, with talk of "we could put all the servers on one server" etc.

They never came out before and admitted they were moving the servers to reduce costs.

I agree. Now that the moves are complete, they're shifting the narrative away from "it will improve performance".

Maybe they thought it really would, maybe they just threw that out there to keep people hanging around for all of last year.  

All that talk of "new hardware" made it sound like it would be better, not what it turned out to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

But there was widespread hope that Lotro would be put on better servers, and performance would increase. Freelorn and Vyvanne led people to believe this, with talk of "we could put all the servers on one server" etc.

They never came out before and admitted they were moving the servers to reduce costs.

Well. They lied.  Companies do lie to further their interests.  Not exactly news is it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They didn't iie.  The datacenter move did improve performance...for them.  The biggest problem the players have, and mostly because of lack of information from Turbine, is that the performance of the game on your computer has nothing to do with ping times or server lag.  Server lag actually got worse on our end because they created a bottleneck when they upgraded the server and not the client.  Now it's like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose.  All those other performance issues such as terrible FPS, CTDs(because you stupidly chose to run the game in very high or ultra settings) is because we're trying to play Crysis 2 on a Radio Shack TRS-80.  The client is garbage and no amount of turd polishing is going to fix that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just imagine if at any point WB had believed in their game, and done something like this:

They had the perfect chance, with the Hobbit movies coming out to spend some money advertising Lotro and getting new players (and income).  

Instead, by that time they had already decided to spend no money on Lotro. They would not even advertise Lotro at PAX, and instead put all the staff time and money on Infinite Crisis. What idiot believed they could make a successful MOBA? in the MOBA current market? And which idiots at Turbine decided they should not invest in the best IP in all of history - LOTR.  

Blizzard does it right. They spend money on advertising and on making the best possible game they can. You can't purchase anything in the WoW/Blizzard store that affects gameplay, just mounts, pets and real life fan items.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

 

Blizzard does it right. They spend money on advertising and on making the best possible game they can. You can't purchase anything in the WoW/Blizzard store that affects gameplay, just mounts, pets and real life fan items.

 

I think it's time to stop trying to compare Turbine with Blizzard.  Blizzard can afford to bleed millions of subscribers and still retain the title of "Most profitable MMO."  Turbine started losing subs and went F2P.  Turbine being a very small company in comparison acquired the rights to make a LotR MMO and the love those people had for the IP really showed.  Once WB bought them because Johnny M. wanted to make a fast buck that love was replaced with corporate agendas.  However, WB isn't really known for investing a ton of money into making things better as they are churning out games as ATMs.  Look at Arkham Origins on PC.  That game was done so poorly that they removed it from Steam.  I'm sure they chose not to have the original developers make the PC port because it was cheaper outsourcing it and the market share wasn't big enough to make it worth the cost.  At this point Lotro makes enough to stay in the black and WB sees it as a way to keep that license on lock down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

9 hours ago, Amenhir said:

I think it's time to stop trying to compare Turbine with Blizzard. 

+1

It was ridiculous to begin with, now is even more than it was back in the day.

9 hours ago, Amenhir said:

 Once WB bought them because Johnny M. wanted to make a fast buck that love was replaced with corporate agendas. 


I don't agree.   Lotro was always about money. It's just that in 2007-2010 it was about catering to diffrent audience using diffrent means. Once that failed around Mirkwood (along with whole AAA mmorpg genre start to having big problems around that time) , new owner came and simply did start cater to diffrent kind of audience using diffrent means & business model. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Turbine had 2 problems: Too small/ too inexperienced for an AAA MMO and the MMO market drastically changed. The license saved them and probably made the former owners a nice amount of money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Thrabath said:

I think Turbine had 2 problems: Too small/ too inexperienced for an AAA MMO and the MMO market drastically changed. The license saved them and probably made the former owners a nice amount of money

I would say their two problems are:

- they don't have the networkers to get the network right before they move the entire playerbase over

- they didn't pay for a good enough datacenter and/or ISP to have a working network when the facility went live

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Thrabath said:

Too small/ too inexperienced for an AAA MMO and the MMO market drastically changed.

Maybe they lacked experienced staff after layoffs, but they had a AAA MMO at one point. They seemed to have the game right for a while. When I started the client and game seem to work pretty well - not like now.

 

I think Turbine's problem was more of a decision not to fund Lotro (or maybe before the sale to WB they could not fund it). If they had limited the store's influence, and just kept the basics of the game (basic themepark MMO features) - they could have done pretty well. Just think if they kept the code in good shape, kept improving the game, offered good group content, etc. They could have kept and gained a lot of players (especially with the Hobbit movies). But they decided early on not to fund the game, so they could not keep it in good shape, and they went way overboard with the store. They cared a lot less about making the game good for players, and eventually a lot less players wanted to play the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, nosam9 said:

Maybe they lacked experienced staff after layoffs, but they had a AAA MMO at one point. They seemed to have the game right for a while. When I started the client and game seem to work pretty well - not like now.

 

I think Turbine's problem was more of a decision not to fund Lotro (or maybe before the sale to WB they could not fund it). If they had limited the store's influence, and just kept the basics of the game (basic themepark MMO features) - they could have done pretty well. Just think if they kept the code in good shape, kept improving the game, offered good group content, etc. They could have kept and gained a lot of players (especially with the Hobbit movies). But they decided early on not to fund the game, so they could not keep it in good shape, and they went way overboard with the store. They cared a lot less about making the game good for players, and eventually a lot less players wanted to play the game.

Kate Paiz spent a lot of time and money on new subsystems, new mechanisms, that all failed to attract customers. All of them are flawed in the context of the game even if they had been working (hardly surprising since she obviously never played it), but they also have bugs, and they have been backed by very badly made content. Or they don't fit the technical reality of the engine (mounted combat).

If she had spent the same money on reinforcing previous areas of success they would be much better off now.

Today the drastic loss of customers month to month has been stopped, and that is after what little is there is not spent on ill-thought out experimental garbage. Not a coincidence I think.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darmokk said:

If she had spent the same money on reinforcing previous areas of success they would be much better off now.

That's what got me, as they never went back and did a gear realignment with the stat change at RoI.  That discontinuity at 65 where the gear shifts didn't help the game, as it showed a lack of effort on something that should have happened.

Could you imagine what the WoW community would have done had Blizzard just left the same Vanilla quests in place when they reworked the world with Cataclysm?  Or for that matter, if Square had left the original FFXIV quests in place with FFXIV:ARR?

It's like Turbine willing broke an unspoken rule, because they couldn't have been pressed with polishing stuff as they should have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's like Turbine willing broke an unspoken rule, because they couldn't have been pressed with polishing stuff as they should have.

I think it was because Kate Paiz just doesn't know enough about this type of game to know the rules of player engagement, spoken or not.

In a way a similar thing is happening now with performance. They just don't have anybody with the experience to (example) know in advance to check on the network routing for the new datacenter, before you move the entire playerbase over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Darmokk said:

I would say their two problems are:

- they don't have the networkers to get the network right before they move the entire playerbase over

- they didn't pay for a good enough datacenter and/or ISP to have a working network when the facility went live

I think you are right about everything you are saying here, including the post about Kate Paiz not knowing MMOs well enough. 

It is amazing they went from creating an amazing MMO to changing it in ways that made it so much worse. AAA MMO to badly coded, outdated game. They should have kept and improved on the basic goodness of Lotro - including the group play with conjunctions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turbine killed Lotro when they decided to not put enough resources into Siege of Mirkwood resulting in way too small of an expansion and masking it with cheaper content and increased grind.

 

After that it was over for Lotro as AAA game.    

 

F2P 'thing' like in whole MMORPG genre was only temporary boost providing temporary increase in funding and resulting in temporary benefit.  It did not and it could not restore Lotro as AAA MMORPG.   Then it gradually died out, like whole hype of F2P being  MMORPGs saviour. (remember all those articles in 2011-2012?)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, drul said:

Turbine killed Lotro when they decided to not put enough resources into Siege of Mirkwood resulting in way too small of an expansion and masking it with cheaper content and increased grind.

After that it was over for Lotro as AAA game.    

 

Well yes.

But there was enough money and other resources available to Kate Paiz to do something much more useful than slander it on new subsystems that went against the game mechanics in one way or another and are basically useless as of today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

Well yes.

But there was enough money and other resources available to Kate Paiz to do something much more useful than slander it on new subsystems that went against the game mechanics in one way or another and are basically useless as of today.

Yeah, they could do better.

Althrough, I do remember what hopes were right before and for few months after F2P Lotro transition.  Often sentiment was that SoM was a 'hiccup', now new funds and new owner will win people back with F2P+next expansion and Lotro will 'come back to old greatness' again.

Now we can see how naive that was, but then it was seen diffrently.   Taking that into account - for me it would not matter even if Lotro would use it's resources more effeficently and would decline a bit more graciously than it actually had.   Lotro ruined it's chance as AAA game with SoM and ruined it's 'atmosphere' and community with Lotro store and gameplay changes. More effeficiant use of resources by Paiz would not change any of that, so it's not important imho.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On of the biggest failures at Turbine is the inability to build on the things that worked.  The hobbies system for example.  Skirmishes were another success but by now there should have been lots more than there are.  SoM can out in 2009 and we now have 19 skirmishes, but we should really have at least 35 maybe even more.  Every Big Battle should have been done as a skirmish.  The settings would be exactly the same as they are now, but instead you can actually play your character the way you always have.  Well not everyone like them, they offer content for different group sizes and offer an upgrade path for all players.

They were so focused on making new systems that didnt work they let the rest of the game fade.  They forgot what made the game a success in the first place

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, cossieuk said:

On of the biggest failures at Turbine is the inability to build on the things that worked.  The hobbies system for example.  Skirmishes were another success but by now there should have been lots more than there are.  SoM can out in 2009 and we now have 19 skirmishes, but we should really have at least 35 maybe even more.  Every Big Battle should have been done as a skirmish.  The settings would be exactly the same as they are now, but instead you can actually play your character the way you always have.  Well not everyone like them, they offer content for different group sizes and offer an upgrade path for all players.

They were so focused on making new systems that didnt work they let the rest of the game fade.  They forgot what made the game a success in the first place

I agree, they should have stuck with what made the game unique and set it apart from others, instead of trying to copy every new trend in the MMO genre.  Skirmishes could have been used to do everything the Big Battles do, and they could have spent the time they took adding the new interface, merit rewards, and promotion points system on other areas of the game to make them better.  That would have done more for the game than any of the new stuff they've added and then left to rot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, warspeech said:

I agree, they should have stuck with what made the game unique and set it apart from others, instead of trying to copy every new trend in the MMO genre.  Skirmishes could have been used to do everything the Big Battles do, and they could have spent the time they took adding the new interface, merit rewards, and promotion points system on other areas of the game to make them better.  That would have done more for the game than any of the new stuff they've added and then left to rot.

Even large companies do that occasionally.  Like Steve Ballmer tried to turn Microsoft into Apple - thankfully Satya Nadella decided NOT to proceed down that path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cossieuk said:

They were so focused on making new systems that didnt work they let the rest of the game fade.  They forgot what made the game a success in the first place

But you have to remember Mounted Combat and Big Battles were mainly a marketing ploy - and used successfully for short term profit. They were aimed at selling preorders of the expansions - and they did this well. RoR sold a ton of preorders because mounted combat sounded so cool. Big Battles were used to hype up the expansion and make it seem that Lotro was still being developed with lots of new content. They marketed it as very cool with 3000 orcs coming at you in the battle for Helm's Deep! 

Of course both were really badly done and ultimately bad for the game, but they hyped them up and made money from the idea. Mounted combat in particular made them a lot of money in preorders, and let them disguise the fact that after F2P we were not going to get a full expansion. They had to offer some new big idea to hide the fact that we were not getting good (or any) instances and basically the expansions were small compared to other MMOs like Rift. Turbine has been scamming players big time since F2P. I also remember hoping after F2P with all the new players some of the money would go back into the game and we would get some amazing expansions. 

I have a feeling that to people like Freelorn and Vyvanne it is so obvious that they have been lying to players for years about Lotro, that they just naturally keep doing that. Lying and hyping up new things (housing, much better servers with upgraded technology, servers in the EU, etc.).  

 

Although they probably intended to move them to the EU at one point, Vyvanne had no reason to lie for so long to keep players thinking it was still going to happen. This is a perfect example of Turbine deceiving players to gain some small profit (less players leaving right away). They can't seem to get out of this habit. And I am sure management approved and wants Freelorn and Vyvanne to keep lying - probably because it has made them money in the past. For example, they keep players in the game hoping for the big housing update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Even large companies do that occasionally.  Like Steve Ballmer tried to turn Microsoft into Apple - thankfully Satya Nadella decided NOT to proceed down that path.

Actually Satya Nadella does exactly that following down that path with Windows 10, Windows Store and Universal Apps.

Yes he gave up on Apple-like hardware front (at least for time being) but he is much more aggressive on Apple-like software front than Ballmer ever was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion the whole data center thing and the failed move to Amsterdam for the EU servers was done with the best intentions.  I have been in situations where I hoped against hope that in those final moments things would come together and it would work out.  That was probably the case.  Vyv wanted to deliver in all the ways put forth, however, for whatever reason she couldn't and took a wait and see approach.  The fact that the transition was done so poorly is due to a lack of skill and experience in that field.  I know there have been times when Turbine has outright deceived the players(pvmp map for RoI).  I don't think this was one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turbine have a history of over promising and under delivering.  The fact they keep doing it suggests it is deliberate and that is not a good thing.  Perhaps it is time they started to undersell and over delivery, or just say nothing until everything is finalised.  The data center move is a great example.  If they had just said there were moving data center and said nothing about Amsterdam and actually did have EU servers in the EU people would have been very happy, the fact they said that was the plan is what is pissing people off.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cossieuk said:

the fact they said that was the plan is what is pissing people off

I don't think it was.

I think what has been, is, and will very likely continue to be pissing people off is the fact they refuse to admit to simple facts (see blunt and honest) without being backed into corners by giving away small hints and finally being forced by a forum outcry to tell the truth.

They kept the fact that EU moves were likely being hampered by other troubles and ultimately not happening at all until the very end, instead of being honest about trouble ahead, hoping, against all of their own history in fsckups and player reactions following them, that they could pull the stunt this time.

Their continued refusal to be honest about things is what is pissing people off.

SNy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×