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LordVorontur

Data Centre Move on 11th January 2016.

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2 hours ago, cossieuk said:

Turbine have a history of over promising and under delivering.  The fact they keep doing it suggests it is deliberate and that is not a good thing.  Perhaps it is time they started to undersell and over delivery, or just say nothing until everything is finalised.  The data center move is a great example.  If they had just said there were moving data center and said nothing about Amsterdam and actually did have EU servers in the EU people would have been very happy, the fact they said that was the plan is what is pissing people off.  

It worked to keep people around, though. That seems to be part of their thing now; keep lying to the customers to stop them leaving, but never deliver.

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2 minutes ago, Doro said:

It worked to keep people around, though. That seems to be part of their thing now; keep lying to the customers to stop them leaving, but never deliver.

In most walks of life your customers would have all gone long ago, but in the gaming world it seems people are too invested to just quit.  I wonder how many people have quit because Turbine lying all the time, that would have stuck around had Turbine just been honest about their plans for the future of the game.  

If they had delivered on their promises over the years just imagine how good the game would be now.

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Ironically, it seems that the NJ datacenter has the screwed up networking. (At least that is what they are saying now)

If they had moved the EU servers to Amsterdam as planned then half of their customer based wouldn't have been affected.

I am also amazed that any installation can move out of New England and get worse networking. I thought we are record holding here.

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11 hours ago, Amenhir said:

In my opinion the whole data center thing and the failed move to Amsterdam for the EU servers was done with the best intentions.  

 I know there have been times when Turbine has outright deceived the players(pvmp map for RoI).  I don't think this was one of them.

No. Vyvanne clearly deceived players for at least 3 weeks, when they knew there would be no EU data center but refused to state clearly that this was the case. If you watched the forums closely you could see how they were intentionally lying by omission. They gave several responses on the question about the EU datacenters, and it was clear they had already decided to not have them, but did not want to tell players this.

She was successful in deceiving players who still kept thinking that there would be a EU datacenter. You can see they were deceived by their posts. It is very likely they deceived players for longer - about 2 months on this. They withheld this information to make players think the EU data center was coming.

Did they have good intentions initially, and the plans just changed - probably.

9 hours ago, Doro said:

It worked to keep people around, though. That seems to be part of their thing now; keep lying to the customers to stop them leaving, but never deliver.

Quoted for truth.

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So, I started playing again a bit more.

I haven't noticed much difference in connection lag.

I was getting a lot of CTD/BSODs/Times when graphics driver stopped responding, but since I updated the driver, this hasn't happened at all so far. That was Saturday.

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18 hours ago, nosam9 said:

No. Vyvanne clearly deceived players for at least 3 weeks, when they knew there would be no EU data center but refused to state clearly that this was the case. If you watched the forums closely you could see how they were intentionally lying by omission. They gave several responses on the question about the EU datacenters, and it was clear they had already decided to not have them, but did not want to tell players this.

She was successful in deceiving players who still kept thinking that there would be a EU datacenter. You can see they were deceived by their posts. It is very likely they deceived players for longer - about 2 months on this. They withheld this information to make players think the EU data center was coming.

Did they have good intentions initially, and the plans just changed - probably.

 

It took like a year for this whole thing to happen.  Unlike some other examples when they promised things and had zero intention of doing them.  It was handled poorly to be sure but up until they started "lying by omission"  she probably really wanted to make good on the promise.  I think they're incompetent tools just like everyone else, which rules out the chance of them being evil masterminds.

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50 minutes ago, LordVorontur said:

So, I started playing again a bit more.

I haven't noticed much difference in connection lag.

I was getting a lot of CTD/BSODs/Times when graphics driver stopped responding, but since I updated the driver, this hasn't happened at all so far. That was Saturday.

I had a couple days with a similar experience but one day (IIRC Wednesday) was terrible with lag.

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No crashes so far since Saturday. Had a little bit of issues trying to get a char logged in earlier, and a bit of lag in Ered Luin at one point, but nothing really doing since.

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The LOTRO faithful ain't going anywhere soon, regardless of the performance issues. Update 18 is in Beta and not far off being released.

Throw a dog a bone and they'll gratefully take it irrespective of whether there's any meat on it ;)

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I was happy playing LOTRO again, until I hit the brick wall called Mounted Combat, which sucked all the fun out of the game for me. Now I'm playing WoW again, and having a great time. Maybe it's just my server (Wyrmrest Accord, RP-PvE), but I have never seen such friendly WoW players in all my years with that game. Sure, there's still the usual "Anal" jokes in Trade Chat, but when actually interacting with other players, I have yet to encounter a single jerk among them. Not one.

Considering it was the player base that drove me off from WoW back in 2010 or 2011, this is a significant - and welcome - change. The game is still loads of fun, with plenty of content to catch up on until the next expansion drops sometime in Summer 2016.

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16 minutes ago, The MMO Troll said:

... until the next expansion drops sometime in Summer 2016.

Ex-pan-shun... what is expanshun? MMO players should be happy with scraps and not get so above their station!!!

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From Vyv, yesterday:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?604313-New-ISP-Routes-in-Place&p=7558669#post7558669

"New ISP Routes in Place

Hi all,

So after some work between our team and our vendors we managed to get a secondary ISP circuit in place last Friday. This new circuit should be sending those of you who have been running into routing problems since the move onto a faster more direct circuit reducing packet loss and increasing the speed of your connection to our servers.

We still have one more change to the other circuit to make so that we have two working at this upgraded capacity, but I would like to hear if you are seeing any improvements over the past weekend and also into this weekend so that we know if these efforts are making a difference.

You can respond here or if you are in game, the /bug form has been updated to take more specific performance related data to help us in our investigations. Just choose Performance Issues/ Lag in the "Bug Category" and Lag or Performance in "Type of bug" to get the performance specific fields.

Note: Please be aware this is just a fix for those who were seeing routing issues since the move so if seen it will be seen in general gameplay. Improvement work in PvMP regions and Minas Tirith and Pelennor fields are game code changes and will be in Update 18, which will be on Bullroarer again this weekend. If you would like to give feedback on those improvements, please do so in the Bullroarer forums. Neither this change nor, the work so far in Beta are our final efforts on the performance issues, we are still working on some other leads internally that we will push into the appropriate channel once they are proven out. We are listening to all of the feedback we are getting and continue to work on all the areas of concern in a multi-prong effort. 

Thank you,
Vyvyanne"
 
Edited to add: Also, Thursday morning server restarts 8AM - 10AM seems to be a regular weekly thing now.  Frelorn hasn't quite worked out how to set the notices to occur *before* the servers go down yet.

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So basically, all along they could have done things to fix performance, but only now are they trying to do them.  

Seriously, what happened to make them actually work to improve the code? Just it got so bad that they have to actually try to improve it, instead of ignore the problems.

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1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

So basically, all along they could have done things to fix performance, but only now are they trying to do them.  

Seriously, what happened to make them actually work to improve the code? Just it got so bad that they have to actually try to improve it, instead of ignore the problems.

Well the network routing problems they have in the new datacenter are (almost certainly) completely separate from Turbine's own code optimization.

Computer performance analysis in a modern system is extremely complex. You have to deal with expensive people who think they can do whatever they want and just do magic they say they can't teach people.  Not the kind of thing Turbine can pay for I suppose.

If they would long-term build up a person to be familiar with the performance model of this particular game, then yes, that works, and can be cheap, as in a regular-ish programmer who likes soldering irons.  But that takes about 2 years.

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From Vyv, today:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?604313-New-ISP-Routes-in-Place&p=7559270#post7559270

"When referring to client memory I am referring to the way memory is manage in the game client, not your computer. Specifically when moving in and out of an area with a lot of objects like Minas Tirith, the game client is not handling moving the data required for the space quickly or cleanly enough. If you have a lower spec computer (which does not appear to be your problem) or are playing at higher graphics quality the problem will be worse, but it can still appear even on high spec machines. We are looking into this problem for correction in U18. If you wish to help us out ahead of that in correcting this issue and have a chance to hop into Bullroarer this weekend please let us know if you are still seeing the issue there or not on the Bullroarer forums we always appreciate extra voices on that server."

Interesting.  They finally stopped blaming players' PCs for the bad performance in the end-game zones.  Better late than never, I suppose.  I can't remember the last time I set foot in the MInas Tirith area - defintely not any time this year.  

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4 hours ago, Darmokk said:

Well the network routing problems they have in the new datacenter are (almost certainly) completely separate from Turbine's own code optimization.

Computer performance analysis in a modern system is extremely complex. You have to deal with expensive people who think they can do whatever they want and just do magic they say they can't teach people.  Not the kind of thing Turbine can pay for I suppose.

It's just ironic that suddenly they can do all these things to improve performance. And, yeah, I am not talking about the Datacenter or ISP stuff. Vyvanne is talking about a lot of things other than that that they will change in the code to improve performance.  

Nice that they waited for so long to actually do any of this stuff. Although I am still skeptical of how much these things will actually help. They could be leading players on again, trying to make them think the game will get a lot better - when in fact they are not that sure themselves (or know it won't help much).

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1 hour ago, warspeech said:

From Vyv, today:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?604313-New-ISP-Routes-in-Place&p=7559270#post7559270

"When referring to client memory I am referring to the way memory is manage in the game client, not your computer. Specifically when moving in and out of an area with a lot of objects like Minas Tirith, the game client is not handling moving the data required for the space quickly or cleanly enough. If you have a lower spec computer (which does not appear to be your problem) or are playing at higher graphics quality the problem will be worse, but it can still appear even on high spec machines. We are looking into this problem for correction in U18. If you wish to help us out ahead of that in correcting this issue and have a chance to hop into Bullroarer this weekend please let us know if you are still seeing the issue there or not on the Bullroarer forums we always appreciate extra voices on that server."

Interesting.  They finally stopped blaming players' PCs for the bad performance in the end-game zones.  Better late than never, I suppose.  I can't remember the last time I set foot in the MInas Tirith area - defintely not any time this year.  

The intent is good, and the communication is hugely improved.

Still, there is a problem here. No, people are not just experiencing problems in Minas Tirith.

Sure, somebody fired the only person who could optimize the pack files with the 3d models and textures before finishing Minas Tirith.  And now it needs to be re-done. But what about all the other problems?

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Yesterday I logged in on my champion to get something out of his vault, craft something and put it in shared storage. I was in MT 3rd lvl i think, standing next to the vault. The crafting facilities are a 10 second walk, at most, without lag. I think it took me 7 or 8 minutes to login, do that walk, craft, walk back and put the crafted item in shared storage.

Though visually I still like MT and I've lot's of time to look around when I'm there :P

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Why are they taking steps now to fix things? The answer is obvious: Enough Whales got frustrated with the game's poor performance and left that it started impacting their bottom line, and that simply won't do, especially with the financial quarter about to end. Turbine can hide drops in store sales on a month-to-month basis, but at the end of the quarter, someone has to explain the financials to WB.

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5 hours ago, The MMO Troll said:

Why are they taking steps now to fix things? The answer is obvious: Enough Whales got frustrated with the game's poor performance and left that it started impacting their bottom line, and that simply won't do, especially with the financial quarter about to end. Turbine can hide drops in store sales on a month-to-month basis, but at the end of the quarter, someone has to explain the financials to WB.

Well, they are only fixing new, clearly identified bugs they recently fatfingered. Network routing in the new datacenter.  Specific issues with the Minas Tirith pakfile.

Neither of them would have happened with a professional company, and the latter issue not if they had the old staff had been on hand who would have remembered how to prepare pakfiles.

They do not acknowledge any of the over-arching issues that make LOTRO  behave bad performance-wise, in particular not the lag issue that was clearly introduced all the way back in U6.

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On 3/24/2016 at 6:47 AM, The MMO Troll said:

I was happy playing LOTRO again, until I hit the brick wall called Mounted Combat, which sucked all the fun out of the game for me. Now I'm playing WoW again, and having a great time. Maybe it's just my server (Wyrmrest Accord, RP-PvE), but I have never seen such friendly WoW players in all my years with that game. Sure, there's still the usual "Anal" jokes in Trade Chat, but when actually interacting with other players, I have yet to encounter a single jerk among them. Not one.

Considering it was the player base that drove me off from WoW back in 2010 or 2011, this is a significant - and welcome - change. The game is still loads of fun, with plenty of content to catch up on until the next expansion drops sometime in Summer 2016.

 

I played WOW from Dec 2005 to DEC. 2010.   Every game has it's share of assholes. The people I joined in my second guild are people who I still talk to today and we are even getting back together on the WOTLK private server I play on.  When I was still very fresh these folks helped explain things about the game I couldn't figure out (rather than telling me to go to Thottbot and stop bothering them).  It was when a few started leveling alts with me that I understood how awesome these folks really were. 

Let me just say this.  My departure from retail WOW and Lotro was never based upon player interactions.  Sure both games had it's poison in the forum sections but in game interactions were generally favorable to ideal.  The amount of trolls in the official game forums far outweigh the in game ones.  WOW's official forum was a cesspool.  While I felt Lotro's official forum wasn't that bad.  If you asked a simple question on a WOW forum they lynched you.  Meanwhile on the Lotro forum (up until mid ROI) you actually got an answer without sarcasm.  There were some great people playing both games. 

But I can understand if some of our poisonous WOW community members ran you out.  2010, 2011 was right around the time that Gearscore was invented and that created a shit ton of elitest assholes, who in my opinion were mostly scrubs trying to pack their raids with over geared  players.  It also is around the time of cross server dungeons.  You could wipe a group on purpose and the chances you'd see that person again were near zero.  Can't even count the number of times I got into a pug 5 man and 2 people from the same kin trolled our group (awesome geared tanks not holding aggro, healers not healing.  Dpsers pulling 3 groups ahead of the tank.  Vote kicking a person who isn't pushing top 25 man raid dps in a 5 man heroic dungeon.  Vote kicking a person just before the final boss to get a piece of gear they might roll on. (that happened to me twice) That was when I made pact with myself.  No matter how desperate I was to run a daily dungeon I wouldn't do so without a full or 4/5 guild run.  I applied the same rule to Lotro.  And I never had problems again.

What made me leave both games was the developer plain and simple.  Expansion is not a synonym for reinventing classes and gameplay. 

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On 3/24/2016 at 5:47 AM, The MMO Troll said:

I was happy playing LOTRO again, until I hit the brick wall called Mounted Combat, which sucked all the fun out of the game for me. Now I'm playing WoW again, and having a great time. Maybe it's just my server (Wyrmrest Accord, RP-PvE), but I have never seen such friendly WoW players in all my years with that game. Sure, there's still the usual "Anal" jokes in Trade Chat, but when actually interacting with other players, I have yet to encounter a single jerk among them. Not one.

Considering it was the player base that drove me off from WoW back in 2010 or 2011, this is a significant - and welcome - change. The game is still loads of fun, with plenty of content to catch up on until the next expansion drops sometime in Summer 2016.

Looks like another person just found out why RP servers are always the best ones to roll on! I also play on Wyrmrest Accord, although I haven't subbed for 13 months.

I know a lot of people around here have a major stick up their ass about the Lonely Mountain Band on Landroval, but let's not let those anecdotes detract from the larger point. In every game I've played, the RP servers are always the friendliest and they're always among the very biggest a game has(WoW may be the exception to this). But the vast majority of people playing on RP servers(80%+) don't actually roleplay at all. RP server players tend to be a little more mature, and trolls are almost nonexistent.

It's sad to see people switch from MMO to MMO continually rolling fresh on miscellaneous little backwater servers that will always be among the first to die or get merged. Whenever I try a new MMO, I always research the server situation before rolling, and I have never once been disappointed.

 

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On 24/03/2016 at 7:47 PM, warspeech said:

From Vyv, today:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?604313-New-ISP-Routes-in-Place&p=7559270#post7559270

"When referring to client memory I am referring to the way memory is manage in the game client, not your computer. Specifically when moving in and out of an area with a lot of objects like Minas Tirith, the game client is not handling moving the data required for the space quickly or cleanly enough. If you have a lower spec computer (which does not appear to be your problem) or are playing at higher graphics quality the problem will be worse, but it can still appear even on high spec machines. We are looking into this problem for correction in U18. If you wish to help us out ahead of that in correcting this issue and have a chance to hop into Bullroarer this weekend please let us know if you are still seeing the issue there or not on the Bullroarer forums we always appreciate extra voices on that server."

Interesting.  They finally stopped blaming players' PCs for the bad performance in the end-game zones.  Better late than never, I suppose.  I can't remember the last time I set foot in the MInas Tirith area - defintely not any time this year.  

Yeah the tone has changed, if they can fix it however....

Considering the fix to Moors is a new option that auto nerfs all your settings when in PvMP.   Even then I guess people may still suffer if more than a raid v raid is nearby.  I can't wait to see what the new raid performs like, considering I get <10 FPS in Blood of The Black Serpent when soloing it on a test server, with DX9 and all settings at low.  I don't run a super rig, but in Bree I get 60+ FPS, soooooo.

It still makes me chuckle, they use MT like an excuse - it's soooo big, so many objects and textures, OFC it plays bad!!!   Have they seen what other games can do on the same PC?   Lotro is the worst game I know for performance, I can run Witcher III better on the same PC, I can run Rift and WildStar way better.  Rift is interesting as at higher settings, running into a Rift with a metric shit ton more mobs and players around, it STILL runs better than Lotro with half a dozen people nearby.

It's the code for sure, and maybe they shouldn't have sacked the people that understand it.  Anyway, U18 is running on the promise of instances and loot that are frankly meh, nothing to get excited about.  It's an exercise in blinding the invested into spending more money; anyone with a degree of self respect will let this go, or just complete the Epics for lolz and invest in popcorn for forum fun.

Such a bunch of dumb dumbs, I feel sorry for Turbine, I do.  It's like they are trying to be retarded.

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22 hours ago, Longbottom Leaf said:

Looks like another person just found out why RP servers are always the best ones to roll on! I also play on Wyrmrest Accord, although I haven't subbed for 13 months.

I know a lot of people around here have a major stick up their ass about the Lonely Mountain Band on Landroval, but let's not let those anecdotes detract from the larger point. In every game I've played, the RP servers are always the friendliest and they're always among the very biggest a game has(WoW may be the exception to this). But the vast majority of people playing on RP servers(80%+) don't actually roleplay at all. RP server players tend to be a little more mature, and trolls are almost nonexistent.

It's sad to see people switch from MMO to MMO continually rolling fresh on miscellaneous little backwater servers that will always be among the first to die or get merged. Whenever I try a new MMO, I always research the server situation before rolling, and I have never once been disappointed.

 

I have never rolled on an RP server so I can't claim it's any better.  But the pve and pvp servers I have rolled on have had some real great folks on them.  I don't think the type of server you roll on matters.  Just like in real life there are good people everywhere, we just choose to spotlight the bad ones because they so bad.  

I played on a pvp server where I was thanked in hillsbrad and Res camped.  The number of folks that came out to help me was overwhelming.  We had people from 5 different guilds who taught that guy a hard lesson.  

On the pve server I was part of for 5 years trolls were heavily policed by the community.  Overall other than the non RP server I  was a part of during my Lotro days I can very easily say that the pve Elune server I played on was the second best.  It wasn't until the new WotLK players got integrated into end game that it went downhill.  And quite honestly those players didn't destroy the community.  We didn't let them. 

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22 hours ago, RedMaggu said:

and maybe they shouldn't have sacked the people that understand it

"We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked."

 

:P

SNy

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