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If they never fix the new problems in Lotro ...

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13 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

One Lifer to another: This game is no longer worth the time investment it once was.

The part here that always seems to get missed is "to me"

People look to games like MMO's for different things and as long as the good outweighs the bad, in their eyes, they'll play because it serves the purpose. That's a long way from the terms and suggestions that get thrown about here at times.

It has nothing to do with "liking to eat shit sandwiches" or being a "defender" or "being stupid", it has to do with the game adequately, not even perfectly, serving the purpose.

What's really amusing is the implied arrogance of the people who spout these statements.

Not to single Doro out but he made a post recently, I think in this thread, that the game ended for him back at RoI, or somewhere in that area, and he was surprised that some people were just now "going through the stages of grief."

I mean really are people so arrogant to think that because a game stopped serving it's purpose for them at a specific point that they'd be surprised that it wasn't the same for others? As if anyone of our subjective and varying definitions of fun in an MMO is somehow superior and correct. Even more amusing is the duality of being agitated when someone on the OF's say something along the lines of, if you don't like the game stop playing, while saying here that if you play you're stupid or whatever.

Even more amusing than all that is the bullshit that gets thrown at these people even though, at least those that post here for any length of time, openly say they don't like this or that, Turbine dropped the ball, etc. but because they choose to play and do still enjoy some facet of the LotRO that they must be some kind of defender that will play no matter what. Do some people like that exist, sure they do, but it's also possible to enjoy something that both others and yourself find far from perfect.

Not trying to single you out either Alm, your's just happened to be the most recent post, and life here is being a total bitch so I'm feeling argumentative :)

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Looking at LotRO for what it is:  A good solo RPG.

To me, that really defeats the purpose of an MMO, which is playing with others, and being social.  Yeah, the RP side of things is probably going to keep going for forever, especially https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?596808-Erotic-Roleplay-in-the-shire is going on and that will keep people excited to play for hours on end.  Or at least for five minutes, at which time they'll probably fall asleep on the keys.  Either way, it's TMI really.

As far as the raiding/grouping side of things went, that really died with they revisited BG Mirkwood and didn't add in more bosses, or do something to actually address the trash between Durchest and the Twins, and the Twins and the LT.  The RoR cluster cluster showed the way things were going, and HD just hit the wall and should have been a sign for all to abandon the game at that point in time (however, naive optimism kicked in then).

Itemization has been a pain point in LotRO since ROI, and there's many other things where most of the joy a lot of us had was lost due to a "death by a thousand papercuts" scenario where all the little things just add up to just frustrating issues that show neglect.

The problem with MMOs is that we spend so much time in them that it's akin to a divorce (emotionally speaking) when it comes to leaving an MMO.  It's one of the reason why perfectly normal and sane people can get incredibly vicious when it comes to talking about MMOs they left.  It's also why people get extremely defensive about an MMO, and that's why a lot of the discussion needed just doesn't happen on the OF, and why this forum tends to be a bit better about discussing stuff.

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It's not so much that they continue to play, if it's enjoyable to them then why the heck not play?

What I find strange is the people who spend all that time on the OF complaining that turbine are not listening to them and giving then what they want, then log straight back into the game.

Well why the fuck would they listen to you? Your giving them what they want anyway, they don't have to raise a finger, spend a penny or waste a single second on you, because you'll play anyway, and they know that.

It would be fucking stupid for them to use up what little man power, finances and resources they have on players, who(despite constant complaining) will still log on and play.

To continue to go through that, to me, is just retarded, they ain't gonna listen to you, in fact every time you say your unhappy but log on anyway just confirms to then they are doing the right thing. Your making it worse for yourselves and then returning to the OF the bitch about it and start the same process. That's the reason they have cut so much shit from the game and the reason they feel quite comfortable lying to you at every step, because they know full well you will bend over and take it.

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You're all right. This debate seems to come round regularly... "If LOTRO is so bad why do people play it?" (They do; the login numbers in another thread here hold up stubbornly). For me, there are still three reasons. Yes, there is previous investment that I'm reluctant to suddenly end. There are friends in-game who I'll never meet in real life and if I stop playing I'll stop "seeing" them. Lastly, it's Middle Earth; if there was another good Tolkien-lore game I'd be there instead. LOTRO is very far from perfect, but for now it's the only available Middle Earth experience. It will one day end. When it does I'll go read all the books again and maybe reinstall Battle for Middle Earth II.

I agree, though, that it's pointless to moan about it on the OF as if there was any chance Turbine would fix any of the major problems. It's what it is, and I just have to decide whether or not it's what I want to use my gaming time for. (I'm still a voluntary exile from OF because they want my preciousss game password as login).

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9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

The problem with MMOs is that we spend so much time in them that it's akin to a divorce (emotionally speaking) when it comes to leaving an MMO.  It's one of the reason why perfectly normal and sane people can get incredibly vicious when it comes to talking about MMOs they left.  It's also why people get extremely defensive about an MMO, and that's why a lot of the discussion needed just doesn't happen on the OF, and why this forum tends to be a bit better about discussing stuff.

this^^  and although i didn't mean to come across that way, maybe i was a bit high and mighty with Bango because i finalized my "divorce" with lotro (for the record, it wasn't an easy process) and i'm bewildered that others have not.  i get it, people have to come to it in their own way, in their own time--if they choose to at all.

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12 hours ago, Spiteful said:

I mean really are people so arrogant to think that because a game stopped serving it's purpose for them at a specific point that they'd be surprised that it wasn't the same for others?

Not so much arrogant as incredulous. There are probably people out there who think the Expendables films are a good franchise, or that McDonald's really is top quality food. I just can't see how they think that.

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You get what you pay for. The people who still love the game do so for all the wrong reasons, and this has been going on for a while. From the day Turbine stopped listening to MMO players and started listening to LotRO fans, pretty much the time F2P rolled around, the game was doomed. Just cut your losses and shake your head at the people who enjoy being treated to this / like this. Lots of people (me included) will still stick around to see the inevitable end on the forums: Turbine will shut the game down with like 1 month warning or less, the tears of  long time "supporters" will be delicious.

LotRO is in many ways like the obligatory military service in many countries. Once you went through something that senseless,  everything else seems like the best experience of your life. I can still remember how psyched I was to start at my first low paid terrible job, just because it wasn't the army. As a long time LotRO player, every other game out there now is even more enjoyable. Thanks Turbine !

 

 

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4 hours ago, Doro said:

Not so much arrogant as incredulous. There are probably people out there who think the Expendables films are a good franchise, or that McDonald's really is top quality food. I just can't see how they think that.

The Expendables is great!

They don't pretend to have some deep fucking story to get some action, they just jump straight to the action part. I love it.

Somtime in the late 90's, Action movies suddenly started to have these really horrible stories, to try to justify the violence, and I hated it.

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On 22 Şubat 2016 Pazartesi at 1:02 PM, Almagnus1 said:

I'd rather devote that money to a FFXIV subscription or more Hearthstone packs.

It looks like a pretty well made and executed game (and one you're really fond of  apparently) but I couldn't even stand watching gameplay vids as the cartoonie/manga-like settings never appeal to me. (No WOW for me either.)

On 22 Şubat 2016 Pazartesi at 1:14 PM, Doro said:

Tobacco will only kill you. LotRO will waste your life.

I smoke while playing LOTRO... :9~

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29 minutes ago, Urwendil said:

It looks like a pretty well made and executed game (and one you're really fond of  apparently) but I couldn't even stand watching gameplay vids as the cartoonie/manga-like settings never appeal to me. (No WOW for me either.)

It's not as cartoony as most think it to be (most stuff is done fairly realistically).  I mean, here's the final fight of the Alexander - Gordias raid:

You gotta keep in mind that FFXIV is from Japan so some cultural... oddities... will be present - and should be expected.

 

PS: If you see gameplay with the icon crossbars, that means the player is using a gamepad.  There are standard hotbars for the rest of us, and those work exactly as you'd expect to with keyboard and mouse.

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20 hours ago, Doro said:

Not so much arrogant as incredulous. There are probably people out there who think the Expendables films are a good franchise, or that McDonald's really is top quality food. I just can't see how they think that.

Just pure arrogance and slutty manners.

It never ceases to amaze me why people come to a forum ( whatnots forum, may even be the  Expendables one ) and tell people to stop playing their game, or watching their films. 

If you don't like the films other people watch, the very least you can do is to shut the fuck up, or gently suggest alternatives, instead of barging into THEIR forum-room, and telling them to stop watching this shit. 

Nobody's  business but theirs. 

P.S. OK,  I could envision a community boycott - as was successfully done in ...NcSoft IIRC. But that's not the case here. Just bad manners, and forum shit. 

 

 

BTW - I downgraded your rep Doro, thinking I was pressing quote. This rep is nonsense.

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41 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

... and slutty manners.

I'm guessing that's something lost in translation, because I got the image of someone rubbing their nips while bowing.

42 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

It never ceases to amaze me why people come to a forum ( whatnots forum, may even be the  Expendables one ) and tell people to stop playing their game, or watching their films. 

If you don't like the films other people watch, the very least you can do is to shut the fuck up, or gently suggest alternatives, instead of barging into THEIR forum-room, and telling them to stop watching this shit. 

Nobody's  business but theirs. 

P.S. OK,  I could envision a community boycott - as was successfully done in ...NcSoft IIRC. But that's not the case here. Just bad manners, and forum shit. 

Issue is we've had people complaining about the state of the game and still playing. We all know nothing's going to change. But there are a few people holding out, as if some miracle will occur and Turbine will change the game for the better, while not realising it's their custom that's keeping it in stagnation. There's only so long you can complain about something while using it until it just becomes white noise.

So you seem to think it's perfectly fine to moan about a game that will never change because they keep playing, but not okay to moan about complaints being useless if they do that. The irony of telling people what they can and can't say.

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4 minutes ago, Doro said:

I'm guessing that's something lost in translation, because I got the image of someone rubbing their nips while bowing.

Issue is we've had people complaining about the state of the game and still playing. We all know nothing's going to change. But there are a few people holding out, as if some miracle will occur and Turbine will change the game for the better, while not realising it's their custom that's keeping it in stagnation. There's only so long you can complain about something while using it until it just becomes white noise.

So you seem to think it's perfectly fine to moan about a game that will never change because they keep playing, but not okay to moan about complaints being useless if they do that. The irony of telling people what they can and can't say.

^^ exactly,

I will bow to that comment, what I am doing with my nips, i'll leave to your imagination.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

 

So you seem to think it's perfectly fine to moan about a game that will never change because they keep playing, but not okay to moan about complaints being useless if they do that. The irony of telling people what they can and can't say.

@In Bold - non sequitur. 

@ Moaning - Indeed, moaning about moaning moaners who moan about people moaning on a non moaning board is OK. 

@ Slutty manners - on purpose. I have a sense of humor. 

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36 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

@In Bold - non sequitur. 

Not even close. Turbine has no reason to make any changes if people will continue to play regardless.

36 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

@ Moaning - Indeed, moaning about moaning moaners who moan about people moaning on a non moaning board is OK. 

So we're in agreement. People can continue to moan about the game they refuse to stop playing, others can continue to moan about how illogical that is, we can continue moaning about how people are allowed to moan, and freedom is restored.

36 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

@ Slutty manners - on purpose. I have a sense of humor. 

My nips are firmly covered.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

So we're in agreement. People can continue to moan about the game they refuse to stop playing, others can continue to moan about how illogical that is, we can continue moaning about how people are allowed to moan, and freedom is restored.

Works for me! Freeeeeeedom!!!!!!!

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On 2/23/2016 at 9:46 AM, Papi said:

this^^  and although i didn't mean to come across that way, maybe i was a bit high and mighty with Bango because i finalized my "divorce" with lotro (for the record, it wasn't an easy process) and i'm bewildered that others have not.  i get it, people have to come to it in their own way, in their own time--if they choose to at all.

No need to apologise. You, bobbylobs and Doro are essentially correct - by continuing to post on the OF in my "quest" to get Turbine to better engage with the community I'm just pissing into the wind and it going straight into my eyes. Turbine couldn't give a shit about the community and just see the players as numbers on a P&L sheet. The mistake I made was to transpose my own ethos into the Turbine/LOTRO context - should have realised it was chalk & cheese.

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

better late than never i suppose.  this is the type of communication they should have been doing from the beginning:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?600902-Data-Center-Update&p=7545860#post7545860

Bit sad that they only seem to have a couple hired guns to put out specific fires, plus a team copy and pasting graphics together for new zones. That's not development, not even maintenance. That's a sinking ship with some power for a water pump left.

Any self-respected performance team has a couple of universal programmers understanding the entire stack up from the processor through all the layers. At the very least you need them to decide who's tagged for a specific problem. It can be very hard to narrow that down and passing the ticket is common.

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They will not like what they find:

Vyvanne: "QA has already completed the testing required to come to new recommended game specs. This is a process that takes months and an outside hardware compatibility lab to run, we are just in the process of compiling those results and running them through the various teams here for approval and they will be posted once they have completed that process and translations."

Lotro doesn't run well on anything except a pretty high end system, I would imagine. And an outside company will tell them how hard it is to find a machine that runs the game well.

I am not too impressed with what she said. It doesn't inspire any confidence they can get the game and servers running well.

I have a feeling a lot of the people she mentioned ("game engineers, QA, designers and artists") are all working on the new games and just brought back to Lotro sometimes when needed. I am sure the "team that works on the networking, server maintenance and datacenter" is not Lotro staff unless they hired one person for the data center move (which I doubt). They are probably shared across all the games.

 

 

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7 hours ago, nosam9 said:

They will not like what they find:

Vyvanne: "QA has already completed the testing required to come to new recommended game specs. This is a process that takes months and an outside hardware compatibility lab to run, we are just in the process of compiling those results and running them through the various teams here for approval and they will be posted once they have completed that process and translations."

Lotro doesn't run well on anything except a pretty high end system, I would imagine. And an outside company will tell them how hard it is to find a machine that runs the game well.

I am not too impressed with what she said. It doesn't inspire any confidence they can get the game and servers running well.

I have a feeling a lot of the people she mentioned ("game engineers, QA, designers and artists") are all working on the new games and just brought back to Lotro sometimes when needed. I am sure the "team that works on the networking, server maintenance and datacenter" is not Lotro staff unless they hired one person for the data center move (which I doubt). They are probably shared across all the games.

 

 

if she had started with that post weeks ago when the shit hit the fan, i would argue the majority of people would be "ok, they at least look like they are on top of it".  instead, just last week, she posted "the majority of problems have been fixed".  talk about putting your foot in your mouth.  

this later post is even more telling:  https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?600902-Data-Center-Update&p=7545961#post7545961

although she says its not going to happen, personally i think an overhaul of the game engine code should have been done years ago--i mean, isn't that a huge factor of why the game is in it's current state?

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23 hours ago, Papi said:

if she had started with that post weeks ago when the shit hit the fan, i would argue the majority of people would be "ok, they at least look like they are on top of it".  

The thing is, they are not on top of it at all. More than a month and they cannot fix the server issues, or roll back to a better state that they had in Boston.  

I don't believe what Vyvanne posted at all. It is half truths. When she says "we have X" she probably mean Turbine has staff who do this, but they are not working much on Lotro and as an emergency have been asked part time to try to look at it when they have time.

The datacenter move was a serious fail, and it is not fixed solely because they are not willing to pay the money to get it fixed - which would mean paying someone (or two) with the right experience. Many companies would not accept the current bad state after the more in an MMO. They accept it and let it remain so bad, even as they bleed players.

Personally, I am sure that vyvanne is lying to us. It's so easy to stretch the truth and say "we have a team of engineers that do X" when the reality is not that at all but a few people who have worked a bit on something.

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1 hour ago, nosam9 said:

The thing is, they are not on top of it at all. More than a month and they cannot fix the server issues, or roll back to a better state that they had in Boston.  

I don't believe what Vyvanne posted at all. It is half truths. When she says "we have X" she probably mean Turbine has staff who do this, but they are not working much on Lotro and as an emergency have been asked part time to try to look at it when they have time.

The datacenter move was a serious fail, and it is not fixed solely because they are not willing to pay the money to get it fixed - which would mean paying someone (or two) with the right experience. Many companies would not accept the current bad state after the more in an MMO. They accept it and let it remain so bad, even as they bleed players.

Personally, I am sure that vyvanne is lying to us. It's so easy to stretch the truth and say "we have a team of engineers that do X" when the reality is not that at all but a few people who have worked a bit on something.

I agree with this.  She could very well be using "team" to refer to a team of one - and that one person could be split among several games, or several tasks on LOTRO.  I still remember Frelorn replying to posts about AC being down for - what was it -  two weeks, I think? - by saying that they learned a lot of what not to do for LOTRO by the AC experience.  

If that's true, and not just BS, imagine how much worse things could be now if they hadn't learned anything from whatever it was that happened to AC! 

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