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Papi

Even MORE layoffs...

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On 7/14/2016 at 2:54 PM, Thequinn said:

No they could hire some small shitbird studio under the WB umbrella to keep the game going.  But they won't give up the rights to an outside agency.  Seriously why keep it going?   You need to make the argument to keep it going first.  Turbine is a mobile games company now with 2 dying MMO's and one in maintenance already for a while now.   

It's true. They could bid out making content for the game, or running it, or marketing it, and pay the contract shop from revenue. If any. Which would be partially in the hands of that contracting studio.

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On 14.7.2016 at 8:54 PM, Thequinn said:

they could hire some small shitbird studio under the WB umbrella to keep the game going

"There's another theory which states that this has already happened."

Sorry for the shameless plug, but I could not resist.

SNy

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some small shitbird studio under the WB umbrella to keep the game going

Perfectly describes Turbine at this point.

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if the OF is accurate, the executive producer was swapped out for DDO's executive producer about 2 months ago.  she is now working on Turbine's new batman mobile game.  bit odd there was no outgoing message from her or anything yet from the new guy.  

but honestly, does anyone really care? i'd venture that 90% of the people who play LOTRO didn't even know who the old exec producer was to begin with. such a small number read the OF, let alone post on them.

but now that they are officially sharing the same resources, i expect LOTRO to have about a year left of "active development".  just my two cents.

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Cordovan did a radio interview last weekend.  The podcast is here (interview starts at 28:12).

Tried to post this on the OF, but it said it would need moderator approval.  I guess they have a policy of pre-approval for all posts that contain external links now?

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9 hours ago, Thurallor said:

Cordovan did a radio interview last weekend.  The podcast is here (interview starts at 28:12).

Tried to post this on the OF, but it said it would need moderator approval.  I guess they have a policy of pre-approval for all posts that contain external links now?

that was painful.  bit weird that everyone in that interview thinks that WoW is F2P--and that apparently Turbine ushered the F2P in for all of their "competitors"

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

that was painful.  bit weird that everyone in that interview thinks that WoW is F2P--and that apparently Turbine ushered the F2P in for all of their "competitors"

In a way WoW is F2P.  You can grind gold to exchange for sub token in game if I remember right.  There also is cash shop in game.

Same goes for EVE, with added functionality of players selling their characters for real $ officially (developers take a cut) as part of business model.

 

P2P AAA MMORPGs in a sense that existed years ago, including pre F2P Lotro does not exist anymore.   Time to admit that and stop using WoW or EVE as an example cause it does not hold water anymore.

 

Maybe someday with technological advancements that would allow to create MMORPGs without faults that caused their demise AND consumers realizing that you have to PAY real dollars (and no 15$/month is not enough) for AAA MMORPG things may change and maybe even pure P2P AAA MMORPG might start to be made again.   Or maybe not.  Who knows?

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4 hours ago, Papi said:

that was painful.  bit weird that everyone in that interview thinks that WoW is F2P--and that apparently Turbine ushered the F2P in for all of their "competitors"

Was there anything interesting in the interview?  I'm getting the impression that it's "here's what it's like to work at a game development studio", listen to us interview a local person for our hometown audience kind of thing.

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59 minutes ago, warspeech said:

Was there anything interesting in the interview?  I'm getting the impression that it's "here's what it's like to work at a game development studio", listen to us interview a local person for our hometown audience kind of thing.

It was Shane Stack (the host), Johnny Wood (a developer), and Jerry Snook (Cordovan). Apparently, Johnny & Shane go way back.

They mostly talked about recent news surrounding Pokemon Go.

First, they talked about the guests' positions at Turbine. Cordovan is now Community Manager for all 3 MMOs. It seems like Wood works mainly on DDO, but floats between games. They talked about how much Cordovan had to toe the company line on social media.

Shane asked some technical questions. On the game engine, Wood pretty much dodged the question about whether there were any advantages to having a proprietary engine as opposed to using a third-party, but did say that the engine was originally built of AC, and is basically the same for all three games, even if it has been heavily modified. On programming languages, Turbine programs in C#, with heavy scripting in a proprietary language.

And then they talked about the F2P conversions of both DDO & LOTRO, and some of the content. Then they plugged the new Batman mobile game.

 

BTW, it was just revealed that Vyvyanne is no longer EP of LOTRO, but is now EP of the Batman game. Rob Ciccolini is now the LOTRO EP, and has been for a couple of months.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?643772-Wherefore-art-thou-Vyvyanne&p=7635202#post7635202

 

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Thanks! 

Wow, that news was mishandled even worse than usual for Turbine.  The players had to force it out in the open by Google-sleuthing, stalking Facebook and LinkedIn, and finally messaging Vyvyanne directly.  

 

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Excuse me, 

44 minutes ago, warspeech said:

Thanks! 

Wow, that news was mishandled even worse than usual for Turbine.  The players had to force it out in the open by Google-sleuthing, stalking Facebook and LinkedIn, and finally messaging Vyvyanne directly.  

 

When Jeffrey Steefel was axed as the execProd that was withheld from the player base for IIRC 9 months. That was at the same time as f2p, so they didn't want to give the impression of major changes.

But either way, this is *not* new.

So who's gonna ask the new leader what his highest level character is? In LOTRO I mean.

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2 hours ago, Talisman said:

Wood pretty much dodged the question about whether there were any advantages to having a proprietary engine as opposed to using a third-party, but did say that the engine was originally built of AC, and is basically the same for all three games, even if it has been heavily modified. On programming languages, Turbine programs in C#, with heavy scripting in a proprietary language.

Couple of minor quibbles:  Turbine uses C++, not C#.  And the engine is the same between the games, but has been extensively upgraded over the years since the games came out.

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

Excuse me, 

When Jeffrey Steefel was axed as the execProd that was withheld from the player base for IIRC 9 months. That was at the same time as f2p, so they didn't want to give the impression of major changes.

But either way, this is *not* new.

So who's gonna ask the new leader what his highest level character is? In LOTRO I mean.

That was before my time, I came in shortly after that.  I guess those old habits die hard. 

Are they still doing weekly twitch streams?  Maybe someone can ask about the new guy's highest character there.

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5 hours ago, Thurallor said:

And the engine is the same between the games, but has been extensively upgraded over the years since the games came out.

Sorry to be nitpicking, but we should stick to the facts and state that the engine has been intensively tinkered with.

If it had been extensively upgraded, who knows, maybe it would be able to cope with the stuff they throw at it and not stumble on latest generation hardware and/or be not notorious for crashing.

SNy

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5 hours ago, warspeech said:

That was before my time, I came in shortly after that.  I guess those old habits die hard. 

Are they still doing weekly twitch streams?  Maybe someone can ask about the new guy's highest character there.

That was Frelorn's thing; it's doubtful it will continue.

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2 hours ago, SNy said:

If it had been extensively upgraded, who knows, maybe it would be able to cope with the stuff they throw at it and not stumble on latest generation hardware and/or be not notorious for crashing.

SNy

if they can take the game offline and call it a hotfix, they can certainly call the patchwork & ad hoc workarounds to accomplish designs never intended in the original engine infrastructure... upgrades.

the degradation in performance players experience is why they are more side-grades than up.  & in the case where the workarounds fail to accomplish the intended design...  down down down...  they manage to GoblinTownGrade the engine.

wasn't there someone on these forums who basically snooped out the Havok code in the guts of Turbines Engine (a legacy from Microsoft days with Ashrons Call)?  since Havok is still used in games like Assassins Creed Unity, (though performance there is debatable)... one wonders if they just failed to keep it up to date, or simply lost the skill base to accomplish that.  makes me wonder if they didn't lose that all the way back when Microsoft and Turbine originally parted ways back in 2004?

regardless, lets hope they've trash-binned Turbines proprietary engine for the new mobile games, as it does not stand up in the current market.

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16 hours ago, drul said:

In a way WoW is F2P.  You can grind gold to exchange for sub token in game if I remember right.  There also is cash shop in game.

Same goes for EVE, with added functionality of players selling their characters for real $ officially (developers take a cut) as part of business model.

P2P AAA MMORPGs in a sense that existed years ago, including pre F2P Lotro does not exist anymore.   Time to admit that and stop using WoW or EVE as an example cause it does not hold water anymore.

On WoW you are technically right about the using gold for sub, but wrong it is F2P. First, you need to buy the game. This is currently $70.  How is $70 free to play?  

Secondly, almost no players can use gold to pay for their monthly sub fee. I would bet it is less than 5% and closer to 1%.  I am subbed to WoW now, and it takes a lot of hours using the best methods to farm gold to make the gold to buy a sub (that costs about $13 for one month). Almost no players are playing with gold - they are all paying the monthly sub fee. WoW is my main game now, and I follow closely what happens with the su token you can buy with gold. In the EU servers, they are actually much higher in gold. In the NA, I would need many, many hours - grinding daily - to get enough to pay for one month.  

WoW is never the game people mention when they are talking about Free to Play MMOs.  

But, yes the market has changed, and the fact that WoW has in game tokens is a big deal. It was also done to stop gold sellers.

___________________________________

8 hours ago, warspeech said:

Are they still doing weekly twitch streams?  Maybe someone can ask about the new guy's highest character there.

The new guy is hiding. Obviously a smart move. He has been hiding from players for 2 months and just doing his job. There is no reason at all for him to say anything to players. He is not the CM and this game is not getting much development for him to discuss. 

It is hilarious that Lotro people on the forums didn't know that Vyvvanne had left and they had a new Exec. Producer for 2 months.  

It's pretty clear now the consolidating servers was just part of getting ready to let Lotro run by itself with little staff involvement (and closing the phone support).

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5 hours ago, Talisman said:

That was Frelorn's thing; it's doubtful it will continue.

No, Sapience started it, did it for about a year before he left.  Frelorn continued it.

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I really shouldn't be posting yet but...

We really want the content leading up to the Black Gate to live up to the player's expectations. That's what we are working on now. But the crescendo of what happens to the Ring needs to be fantastic. Once the players have to enter Mordor itself... we feel that we need something "big" to do that justice.

Sev~

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?644946-DDO-is-getting-a-new-expansion-(possibly)-but-not-a-peep-about-what-is-ahead-for-LOTRO&p=7636077#post7636077

 

 

 

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^^^

They're almost making it sound like there's going to be another expansion coming out for Mordor. The cynical side of me assumes that it would be an extremely sub-par cash grab shortly before the lights go out for good, but who knows?

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3 hours ago, Longbottom Leaf said:

^^^

They're almost making it sound like there's going to be another expansion coming out for Mordor. The cynical side of me assumes that it would be an extremely sub-par cash grab shortly before the lights go out for good, but who knows?

That's why I'm gonna install LotRO later this year, and get current, as I do not expect the game to live to see 2018.

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10 hours ago, Longbottom Leaf said:

^^^

They're almost making it sound like there's going to be another expansion coming out for Mordor. The cynical side of me assumes that it would be an extremely sub-par cash grab shortly before the lights go out for good, but who knows?

I get this feeling too.  There was a post on the OF that listed the questions in a recent player survey email that some people got, and one of the questions was whether you were interested in an expansion.

For the extra-cynical among us, I'm wondering if they'd be so ballsy as to make the end of the epic story something you have to pay for too, bundled with this hypothetical final expansion.

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On 7/20/2016 at 7:58 PM, Longbottom Leaf said:

^^^

They're almost making it sound like there's going to be another expansion coming out for Mordor. The cynical side of me assumes that it would be an extremely sub-par cash grab shortly before the lights go out for good, but who knows?

The cynical side to you should be saying how much cheaper does the license become to renew if the Lotr is over and we re just dealing with middle earth.

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