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Hello from Cordovan


Cordovan
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42 minutes ago, Papi said:

Sadly, denial is Turbine's modus operandi.

The same could be said for the "defenders" you mention--one of which is still posting in this thread (I assume only so she can get Cordovan's attention)--who continue to deny here and on the OF what they are doing in plain sight.  

Something tells me the new CM isn't going to do a damn thing to curb that behavior one bit.

I'd like to hear what Cordovan thinks about people who tell other posters they have no right to post on a topic, accuse them of having a sinister hidden agenda, refuse to listen to anything they don't want to hear, repeat the "sinister hidden agenda" talking point over and over and over as it it's an established fact and not a made-up smear tactic, then declare that they're "too afraid to post" when they get called on their bullshit.

 

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

The same could be said for the "defenders" you mention--one of which is still posting in this thread (I assume only so she can get Cordovan's attention)--who continue to deny here and on the OF what they are doing in plain sight.  

Oh how much I wish she would go back to her own turf. Every single time I see that baby jesus avatar of hers makes me wanna puke.

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57 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

To summarize the thread, I had the temerity to suggest that the only real change is the removal of the RP naming policy from the EU servers when the server merger... <snip>

And in the end, what Turbine did was what they do better: ignore it all and do nothing. Do not remove the RP tag, but don't follow their RP guidelines either. So now we have this RP server with an elf maiden called Intimissimii (with an extra i probably in order not to breach trademark policies - the moron).

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7 hours ago, Doro said:

Off the top of my head, I've seen "troll", "malcontent", "liar", "drama queen", "brat", "whiner", and variations thereof.

That, of course, doesn't include general statements, like telling people to leave if they don't like something (as if any criticism is not allowed), trying to derail with things like "popcorn" and "inb4 lock" (serves no purpose at all, just wants to make the OP seem unreasonable), baiting the poster instead of commenting on the topic (countless times you'll see posts that don't even reference the topic but give sideways digs at those who support it), posting in a way so as to completely disregard or discredit a poster's concerns (like that Nymphwhatever does every time they make a post about the fairyland they live in, or the old Heydts and their anti-PvP posts), or general things used to try to bait people into responding and getting infracted for it.

Edit: Passive-aggressive was the word I needed.

I think that insults like you mention should be dealt with evenly by Cordovan.

Some of the other "general statements" should be fine as long as they don't go too far astray. I've seen them used by all sides in arguments on every forum I've been a part of or moderated. Either ignore them or respond in a level-headed manner. No need to fling insults regarding it.

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23 minutes ago, FundinStrongarm said:

I think that insults like you mention should be dealt with evenly by Cordovan.

Some of the other "general statements" should be fine as long as they don't go too far astray. I've seen them used by all sides in arguments on every forum I've been a part of or moderated. Either ignore them or respond in a level-headed manner. No need to fling insults regarding it.

The problem with the general statements is that the people making them are often doing so regularly. It's a sort of snide passive-aggressiveness where everything they say is coloured by implied insults that go under the radar. And when a person has experienced that often enough, without seeing any sort of action from CMs who would hit them for doing the same thing, it can be frustrating and lead to a next-level response. It's baiting. Just look at the people annoyed with a specific poster here that employs the same tactics.

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32 minutes ago, Doro said:

The problem with the general statements is that the people making them are often doing so regularly. It's a sort of snide passive-aggressiveness where everything they say is coloured by implied insults that go under the radar. And when a person has experienced that often enough, without seeing any sort of action from CMs who would hit them for doing the same thing, it can be frustrating and lead to a next-level response. It's baiting. Just look at the people annoyed with a specific poster here that employs the same tactics.

Just because they do something regularly doesn't mean people have to change from either ignoring it or responding in a level-headed manner. No need for "next level response" or taking the bait.

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Given my name has been brought up by others I am just pointing out a few points and not baiting anyone. I am not arguing with any one despite what was said here about myself and other forum posters.  I am not  even judging  you, I really could not care less of what you think about me because you do not know me.  All I know is that I have been a member of this forum since it was opened in 2011 which is much longer than some of you folk, and I came here only once in a while to read or post. . I am just a LOTRO player, obviously not a very popular one around here. If you need somebody to 'hate' by all mean don't let me stop you, I am just not intimidated by insults. I have the courage and balls to stand here with my OF name  without hiding, I do not delete posts or sneak, I will tell you want I think always, kindly and politely, if you want to call that passive-aggression be my guest. I have no beef with anyone here, not even with Al, we had our forum battle a log ago and it was a good one, all in the past as far as I am concern but he likes to bring that up  so I just pointed the CM to it for him to see what went on. He will make his own mind I am sure.   Shooting at the wrong target , your beef may be with Turbine or with whoever works or worked for them, The state of the game is NOT my fault , I am just a noob player that happen to enjoy LOTRO once in a while, I am not a developer and I did not even post much on the OF until Al decided to make all that fuss about my own server. Anyhow,  this is all I wanted to say...ooh and I honestly apologize if anyone here has been offended by my posts, it was not my intention .  Good advice I was given not long ago was to ignore and move on and that is what I intend to do. 

Take care and thank you for letting me post this 

 

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13 minutes ago, Amorey said:

Given my name has been brought up by others I am just pointing out a few points and not baiting anyone. I am not arguing with any one despite what was said here about myself and other forum posters.  I am not  even judging  you, I really could not care less of what you think about me because you do not know me.  All I know is that I have been a member of this forum since it was opened in 2011 which is much longer than some of you folk, and I came here only once in a while to read or post. . I am just a LOTRO player, obviously not a very popular one around here. If you need somebody to 'hate' by all mean don't let me stop you, I am just not intimidated by insults. I have the courage and balls to stand here with my OF name  without hiding, I do not delete posts or sneak, I will tell you want I think always, kindly and politely, if you want to call that passive-aggression be my guest. I have no beef with anyone here, not even with Al, we had our forum battle a log ago and it was a good one, all in the past as far as I am concern but he likes to bring that up  so I just pointed the CM to it for him to see what went on. He will make his own mind I am sure.   Shooting at the wrong target , your beef may be with Turbine or with whoever works or worked for them, The state of the game is NOT my fault , I am just a noob player that happen to enjoy LOTRO once in a while, I am not a developer and I did not even post much on the OF until Al decided to make all that fuss about my own server. Anyhow,  this is all I wanted to say...ooh and I honestly apologize if anyone here has been offended by my posts, it was not my intention .  Good advice I was given not long ago was to ignore and move on and that is what I intend to do

Take care and thank you for letting me post this 

 

1. 4 posts in 2011, then nothing at all until one post in May of this year, and all the rest after Cordovan showed up here to post.  What a cowinkydink! 

2. Yes, it takes courage to strongly imply that people here lack balls if we post under different names than on the OF.  But you are invested in being "kind and polite" Amorey all over the interwebs, so it doesn't work as well for you to not call attention to yourself and the Laurelin Archives every where you go, does it?

3. We're shooting at the exact right target.  The current conversation isn't about the state of the game, don't pretend that it is.

4. Bullshit.  You bring up your post count and join date whenever you get the chance.

5. So does this mean we've seen the last of you here?  Let's bring out one of your oft-repeated "kind and polite" OF phrases, shall we?  

  "Away with you!"

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45 minutes ago, Amorey said:

1. I really could not care less of what you think about me because you do not know me...  

2. All I know is that I have been a member of this forum since it was opened in 2011 which is much longer than some of you folk..

3. I have the courage and balls to stand here with my OF name...I will tell you want I think always, kindly and politely 

 

1. And yet here you are, trying to explain yourself.

2. Ah yes, the I've-been-here-longer-than-you have argument...you've used that countless times before to try and invalidate opinions over on the OF.  

3. How every kind and polite of you.

I refuse to believe that someone can operate the way you do and it not be intentional.  I've seen you purposely bait people on the OF and then accuse them of harassment (and worse) for exposing your hypocrisy.  I'm with warspeech, away with you!

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3 hours ago, Amorey said:

I have the courage and balls to stand here with my OF name  without hiding

Why should you be hiding? Your constant buttlicking has made you teacher's pet there. Sadly, the way that Turbine links forum and game users means that some others face not only being banned from the forums but also the likely chance of losing years of both effort and money put in the game - even by minor criticism.

By the way, "here, have a banana". You oh so self entitled monkey. And away with you indeed.

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On 10/17/2016 at 2:39 PM, Cordovan said:

The old schoolyard defense of, "but he/she IS a _____!!!" doesn't work. If someone is calling someone else a _____, and it's an insult, it's not up to me to determine whether the insult is warranted. Don't do insults. It also almost always lessens your argument, and makes you seem less intelligent. Debate the topic, not the person. If you can't handle someone else's personality, no one's requiring you to interact with them.

You know, I was content not to respond to you, but you are going down the same path as other failed LOTRO forum CM's have gone, and you need to know some things about your job before you pursue it any further:

 

1. Your time at Turbine is finite.  It's not a guess; it's a prophecy.  You really should start putting your resume out, if you haven't already.  You can blame the sale and mis-management by the owners of your company - former and latter - for that.

2. You can't do your job effectively if you don't take it seriously.  You can't cruise-control it, and you can't turn a blind eye.

a. For goodness' sake, get your PM box under control.  You're part of a company that handles technology.

3. You have people on your community board that flaunt the rules on a regular basis and without repercussion - in your face - and you don't even realise it.  I'm not talking about the obvious trolls and kids with a big mouth; I'm talking about the malicious types that have done irreparable harm

a. I'll give you Leixy as a prime example.  For years, his setting of people against each other - both on the board and in the game - went on uninterrupted, because he had you and your prior ilk looking like a bunch of tom-fools as he set his fires aflame and cackled while watching them burn.  He had to do something so very obvious to get himself noticed, much less banned, which was to breach NDA, not on the official forums but on these forums, which he knew were anathema to Turbine.  To call this lack of perception an utter failure would fall horribly short of the reality.

b. In the game, there are similar personalities that come on to do the very same thing, seeming harmless but nudging this way and that, causing flame wars that have no other purpose than their own entertainment.  Reports of those individuals when they do such things are summarily ignored by GM's.  The +Dusts and +Genevas of the GM pool revel in a cult personality that springs up every time they deign to chat in World.  How is this possibly keeping things in order?  Seriously.  In a ticket the specific part of the CoC/EULA that is being broken can be copied and pasted for a GM to see, and it won't make a difference.  There is one fellow in the game brashly selling a Steely Dawn code without Turbine's say-so, and not a GM has stopped him.  Ridiculous!

c. On the forums there are those who continue to say what they will without fear of repercussion, such as Gildhur, Marevwhatever, both Heydts, Montrandir, and others, who will mercilessly pound on anyone who doesn't have a "pure" view of the game and says as much.  Some of these have been responsible for marginalising players who wanted more substance from the game, who ended up getting frustrated and banned themselves in their frustration.  It's hard to "debate the topic" when both sides are not given equal protections afforded by the forum guidelines.

4. If you are expecting the players who are, otherwise, playing according to the rules to make an effective change to this Wild West sort of status quo, you don't have to be a genius to realise that they have no authourity at all ... none!  You and your moderators and your GM's need to step the heck up and re-establish order on your board and in your game, according to the rules that exist to protect your playerbase's freedom to play and interact.  Then and only then can you throw stones around your house and not expect a lot of broken glass as a result.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

/micdrop

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Right guys, I don't want to have to pull out the modbreak tags, but if we keep up with the ganging I might have to. Keep the insults down to a minimum, argue the points, and don't fall for the bait.

And regarding Amorey, I do have to ask you: do you actually believe your posts are perfectly innocent? There are a number of places in your last post here alone that make me think you're just missing where the problematic points are.

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On 10/18/2016 at 9:22 AM, FundinStrongarm said:

Just curious. Are there some examples of names/insults that "fanboys" use to denounce critics?

You see that's the trick.  They understand direct insults can result in discipline.  They generally understand that debunking your entire statement is going to do the trick. 
Marginalization is a more powerful tool than name calling.  It's also a tool to get people to shut up. 

Thread 1

Concerned Poster:  X is wrong with the game.

Fanboy:  There is nothing wrong with X  (spends 20 posts continuing this message against 10 to 15 people who back up the concerned posters claim)

Fanboy then starts a separate thread to demonize the concerned poster as a whiner who will never be happy with the game.  But Fanboy will never name the person because they understand that it is against the rules.

And here's an example of what the new thread's OP will look like:

Title: What's with all the whining?

Poster will spend a paragraph with their nose up the developers butt about how much work they are doing and what a great job the development team is doing.  Then the next paragraph will be them not understanding how "some folks" are just never satisfied no matter how hard you try to please them.  Depending on the X the fanboy may or may not mention it but will claim to be sick and tired of the whiners.

Now what a true fan of the game ( or just a helpful community member)  would do is try to understand X and either try to make suggestions to cure X or change X so that it is more enjoyable and or working correctly.  what they don't do is deny X's existence (unless X is just absurd).  The good community member then doesn't create the new thread complaining about the poster (without mentioning his topic or concern, effectively distancing himself from embarrassing the original concerned poster but still effectively complaining about the concerned posters complaint  ) 

This happened to me when Draigoch bugged on our kin 4 times in a single night.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Thequinn said:

You see that's the trick.  They understand direct insults can result in discipline.  They generally understand that debunking your entire statement is going to do the trick. 
Marginalization is a more powerful tool than name calling.  It's also a tool to get people to shut up. 

Thread 1

Concerned Poster:  X is wrong with the game.

Fanboy:  There is nothing wrong with X  (spends 20 posts continuing this message against 10 to 15 people who back up the concerned posters claim)

Fanboy then starts a separate thread to demonize the concerned poster as a whiner who will never be happy with the game.  But Fanboy will never name the person because they understand that it is against the rules.

And here's an example of what the new thread's OP will look like:

Title: What's with all the whining?

Poster will spend a paragraph with their nose up the developers butt about how much work they are doing and what a great job the development team is doing.  Then the next paragraph will be them not understanding how "some folks" are just never satisfied no matter how hard you try to please them.  Depending on the X the fanboy may or may not mention it but will claim to be sick and tired of the whiners.

Now what a true fan of the game ( or just a helpful community member)  would do is try to understand X and either try to make suggestions to cure X or change X so that it is more enjoyable and or working correctly.  what they don't do is deny X's existence (unless X is just absurd).  The good community member then doesn't create the new thread complaining about the poster (without mentioning his topic or concern, effectively distancing himself from embarrassing the original concerned poster but still effectively complaining about the concerned posters complaint  ) 

This happened to me when Draigoch bugged on our kin 4 times in a single night.

 

 

 

 

 

None of that is direct name-calling or insults. I file that under either ignore or level-headed response, likely the former. No need to stoop to their level.

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Two examples (from 2 different posters) I reported yesterday:

Quote

Quit your whining, scum. Its plonkers like you that have ruined this once-fine game, that should be enjoyed for its wonderful lore and storyline.

 

 

Quote

There is only ONE answer for you.

Please stop playing the game immediately.

Thank you.

Good-bye!

Both posts are still there. (OK, not removing/editing an offensive post might be a moderation decision, but:)

The second poster made several more posts in the same (or even worse) tone afterwards.

During Frelorn's CM-ship I got so fed up with someone's bullying (they dissected a post into a half page grammar pseudo-analysis/correction) that I sent a lengthy message reporting the post:

Dear Frelorn,

Attacking people's supposedly bad grammar is a direct violation of the CoC. I'm sick and tired of these certain bravado "old timers." Putting them on ignore but will make it a point to check once in a while and report till you take the integrity of CoC seriously.

The previous CM helped wreck the community with his gestapo measures and favoritism. I'm terribly sorry to observe that your virtually absolute inaction policy works the same (wrong) way.

Personally I have no problem with a bit of profanity slipping out, or tensions rising from time to time, or pissing contests in the shape of pure rhetorical battles make some mildly entertaining forum PvP. However, the constant and almost systematic bullying of every kind of suggestion, complaint, even -yes!- whining by several insolent members of the community (either from the so called "fanboi" camp or the self-styled "vocal minority") is sickening.

Dignity is a human right to stand up for.

Sincerely yours, <real name> aka Urwendil

Don't have the means to check if it had any effect. I didn't really keep that promise of mine to check what they were up to :P

The situation isn't different today.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

Some of us can't really ignore blatant disrespect towards us.

Oh, Dear. 

How unfortunate. The world is such a huge place, with millions of net-warriors at the ready, that I really don't know how such people manage. Warfare Eternal, I suppose?

 

BTW I accidentally stumbled upon the "scum" post on the OF and found it repugnant. 

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41 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

Oh, Dear. 

How unfortunate. The world is such a huge place, with millions of net-warriors at the ready, that I really don't know how such people manage. Warfare Eternal, I suppose?

Most will learn not to unnecessarily prod certain people. Some don't.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

Most will learn not to unnecessarily prod certain people. Some don't.

Innuendo and insinuation fall on deaf ears here. 

One is a simple insult, easily dealt with by a mod.

Two is an exercise in bad manners and imbecility, unworthy of action either by mod or user. If user sees fit to react to all such shows of imbecility on the net - good luck in that hobby. 

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3 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

Innuendo and insinuation fall on deaf ears here. 

One is a simple insult, easily dealt with by a mod.

Two is an exercise in bad manners and imbecility, unworthy of action either by mod or user. If user sees fit to react to all such shows of imbecility on the net - good luck in that hobby. 

Great that you think that. Point is, not all do.

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4 hours ago, Doro said:

Some of us can't really ignore blatant disrespect towards us.

Then that's on you and not anything the mod needs to worry about. If you have a next level response that slings insults expect the mods to hand you an infraction.

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13 minutes ago, FundinStrongarm said:

Then that's on you and not anything the mod needs to worry about. If you have a next level response that slings insults expect the mods to hand you an infraction.

Right, let's break this down, then. If it's a name and it annoys someone, then yeah it should be dealt with. But if it's someone being snide and it annoys someone, then it's the fault of the annoyed person and they should just accept it? Both break the rules, but only one is apparently unacceptable.

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