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Hello from Cordovan


Cordovan
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3 hours ago, frodofraggins said:

As far as people demanding information on the license renewal.  CM's and developers don't have the authority to do that on their own,  assuming they even know, and if they circumvent that they'll be fired.  Given how small the industry is, good luck getting another job in that field.

 

2 minutes ago, Darmokk said:
3 hours ago, frodofraggins said:

As far as people demanding information on the license renewal.  CM's and developers don't have the authority to do that on their own,  assuming they even know, and if they circumvent that they'll be fired.  Given how small the industry is, good luck getting another job in that field.

 

Yes I know.

I on the other hand have my own constraints. 

One of which is that I don't make financial and time investments in a MMORPG in fall 2016 - when as far as communicated it has its operating license run out in spring 2017.

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On July 23, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Cordovan said:

As someone said above, it's true; I am not particularly concerned with how you feel/felt about previous people in this position. I do plan to make an effort to take another look at bans, generally on an on-request basis through our support system, when time permits. As said, it'll be a few weeks before I have time to do this, though.

Regarding the claim that you say got you banned: Not looking at the validity of the moderation decision, but just saying that your statement is simply not accurate. LOTRO and Infinite Crisis had separate budgets, and LOTRO's budget was not set by spending on Infinite Crisis (at least I've never heard of it happening.) That's not how we manage our games. Without providing more detail than permitted, the games in general set their budgets by their own revenue, which is part of the reason they have been able to be sustained for as long as they have. There may be additional investment from other sources, but the idea that we'd cut one budget to give it to another game is simply not what happens.

Cordovan, this is a great example of a reasonable, informative CM response, that goes a long way to enhance people's understanding of the issue in question while not giving away anything you're not allowed to.

Under the Sapience system of community management, this fell under his "fabricated or misleading information" bannable offense rule.  He used it a lot, for all kinds of things, and by never having to explain why (except when he was petty enough to publicly name and shame someone) he got rid of a lot of forum voices that he just didn't like hearing from.

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I want to publicly thank Cordovan for taking a leap of faith by reviewing my infraction history and restoring my access to the official forums, without me even specifically requesting it. I'll do my best not to make anyone regret it.

I won't be disappearing from this community, though. I was here long before my departure from the official forums, and I enjoy the camaraderie, conversations, and commentary you all bring to LOTRO.

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On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Fredelas said:

I want to publicly thank Cordovan for taking a leap of faith by reviewing my infraction history and restoring my access to the official forums, without me even specifically requesting it. I'll do my best not to make anyone regret it.

I won't be disappearing from this community, though. I was here long before my departure from the official forums, and I enjoy the camaraderie, conversations, and commentary you all bring to LOTRO.

Aw, and here I was all set to document the travel rations brouhaha in your defense.  Glad to see that justice and common sense won out in the end.  And congratulations on your new family, Fredelas!  We need more people like you in the world, and those kids are lucky to learn from one of the best.

PS anyone who's curious can just google "lotro Sapience travel rations" 

or just click here:

http://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/2313-the-does-sapience-even-play-lotro-and-other-troubling-thoughts-deleted-thread/

 

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Hello! Please forgive me if something I say has already been mentioned, I am short on time and couldn't read the whole thing but wanted to bring up a point that concerns me. 

After the latest layoffs I've seen a lot of friends and kin members become very concerned about the game and it continuing past next year. They have expressed to me that they won't be renewing VIP status because of this and some have even stopped playing all together because they feel that the current end game grind isn't worth it if the game ends next year. I know there was a statement released that the plans for the game haven't changed etc but that's a hard sell when your staff keeps getting smaller and we all know when the license is up. Bad timing on the layoffs and hit players morale hard. I know you are limited in what you can tell us but if there is any way the team can give us more hope, that would help so much. 

Thank you sooooo much! Again, sorry if this has already come up. 

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Hi Cordovan!

I just want to say how great it is to see this message. I already knew via my LOTROstream pals how collaborative and responsive you are, and it's great to see that same spirit here.

I'm a newbie relative to the folks here, and I have no real history in the forums and the community. The only thing, perhaps, is that I am the leader of the Mythgard kin, which was founded by Corey Olsen the Tolkien Professor, whose burglar Gryffler runs on LOTROstream on Fridays. We operate under the aegis of Signum University, which offers a Tolkien Studies Masters Degree and lots of freebie courses on Tolkien and other writers. Corey and I have tried relatively unsuccessfully to forge a fun and productive partnership with the community manager in the past--there are lots of things that we can offer players interested in lore, and we'd love to do that on all the servers, not just Landroval.

Corey is due to be in the Turbine offices sometime the first week of July, to do a stream with Chris and Mike Drout. I'm sure you will meet him, and I hope that you and I can talk at some point after that about how Mythgard/Signum can enrich the player experience through the special talents we have on offer!

Maven of Landroval

(Meyvan, Leader of Mythgard)

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4 hours ago, Fredelas said:

I want to publicly thank Cordovan for taking a leap of faith by reviewing my infraction history and restoring my access to the official forums, without me even specifically requesting it.

A human being for LOTRO CM?!!  Whatever the world is coming to...

 

Personally I never even got an infraction or what not - I simply stopped posting soon after the move to Turbine. It's my free time, and I refuse to spend it in a poisonous environment. Contrary to what many think - forums have an important role to play in building up the gaming COMMUNITY, and I wish Cordovan all the best of luck in achieving this. 

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5 hours ago, Fredelas said:

I want to publicly thank Cordovan for taking a leap of faith by reviewing my infraction history and restoring my access to the official forums, without me even specifically requesting it. I'll do my best not to make anyone regret it.

I won't be disappearing from this community, though. I was here long before my departure from the official forums, and I enjoy the camaraderie, conversations, and commentary you all bring to LOTRO.

This is great news.

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7 hours ago, Maven said:

Corey is due to be in the Turbine offices sometime the first week of July, to do a stream with Chris and Mike Drout. I'm sure you will meet him, and I hope that you and I can talk at some point after that about how Mythgard/Signum can enrich the player experience through the special talents we have on offer!

August?

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Hmm nice if it is really Cordovan here but isn't cordovan basically sapience for the ddocommunity site, which I don't know if it has any relation though of course.

Also this forums had a lot of maniacs, ya I'm fully included so fuck off, them still around ?

 Rational discussion might be hard then......

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Hi Cordovan,

A truly nice move to show up here and interact with the regulars. I'm positively surprised.

Speaking of bans, you might perhaps start with the ban on this whole forum: posting its url at all on the OF is (was?) banned (which actually had the effect of making me a semi-regular lurker here, which eventually led to making an account and finally popping up a few months ago. Too late one might say, as it's a really nice community we have here.)

I hope the mutual understanding and interaction goes on.

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That's interesting about linking to lotrocommunity; I lack the history to know what prompted it. I think it probably would have to depend on what is being linked to rather than a permanent ban on linking to the forum. If someone was linking to NDA information, for example, or an exploit, that would still have to be prohibited, but just a general link to a nonissue thread is probably fine.

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36 minutes ago, Cordovan said:

That's interesting about linking to lotrocommunity; I lack the history to know what prompted it. I think it probably would have to depend on what is being linked to rather than a permanent ban on linking to the forum. If someone was linking to NDA information, for example, or an exploit, that would still have to be prohibited, but just a general link to a nonissue thread is probably fine.

I assure you it did not take reasons like that.

Have a look for yourself about what links did survive during that time.

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I can give you some history on linking to this community. I received an infraction for a link myself (not a ban because I didn't post often enough to get bans). I added a link to this community in signature (a frontpage link, not a link to any post in particular). It was very quickly deleted. I wasn't told it was deleted so I had assumed I forget to hit save on the settings page, because it got deleted that quickly. The second time it got deleted I received an infraction for going against a mods orders from sapience, along with a warning that if I added the link back to my signature again, I would be banned next time. Apparently, he viewed this forum at the time as hateful/trolling and was punishing any mention of it whatsoever. Of course I can't provide any proof of this since the old forum got scrapped. But I can assure you he held a grudge against this community. Probably because he had zero control over it.

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11 minutes ago, thordsvin said:

I can give you some history on linking to this community. I received an infraction for a link myself (not a ban because I didn't post often enough to get bans). I added a link to this community in signature (a frontpage link, not a link to any post in particular). It was very quickly deleted. I wasn't told it was deleted so I had assumed I forget to hit save on the settings page, because it got deleted that quickly. The second time it got deleted I received an infraction for going against a mods orders from sapience, along with a warning that if I added the link back to my signature again, I would be banned next time. Apparently, he viewed this forum at the time as hateful/trolling and was punishing any mention of it whatsoever. Of course I can't provide any proof of this since the old forum got scrapped. But I can assure you he held a grudge against this community. Probably because he had zero control over it.

That's what it looked like at the time.  Speaking your mind over there while also posting here could get you a ban too.  We still miss Tui and hope she is doing well.

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I was giving a warning about my signature that linked to this forum.  Not to any post just the main page.  Just like thordsvin, I had the link removed, without being told about it and just assumed that something had went wrong somewhere so I re added it.  When it disappeared again I queried it and was told that this forum was not allowed to be in the signatures. 

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3 hours ago, thordsvin said:

I can give you some history on linking to this community. I received an infraction for a link myself (not a ban because I didn't post often enough to get bans). I added a link to this community in signature (a frontpage link, not a link to any post in particular). It was very quickly deleted. I wasn't told it was deleted so I had assumed I forget to hit save on the settings page, because it got deleted that quickly. The second time it got deleted I received an infraction for going against a mods orders from sapience, along with a warning that if I added the link back to my signature again, I would be banned next time. Apparently, he viewed this forum at the time as hateful/trolling and was punishing any mention of it whatsoever. Of course I can't provide any proof of this since the old forum got scrapped. But I can assure you he held a grudge against this community. Probably because he had zero control over it.

That was my experience as well.  I was more annoyed with the ninja edit than anything else.  Although getting a warning for putting it back in was ridiculous as well considering they never notified me they purposely removed it.  At least inform people that you modified their signatures.   I simply linked to the website in my signature, not a particular thread.  Anyway, that was pretty much the end of my posting there and only posting here.

Sapience just loved power and control too much.  I have nothing nice to say about him and I'm saddened that he made celestrata  do his petty bidding.

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16 hours ago, Cordovan said:

That's interesting about linking to lotrocommunity; I lack the history to know what prompted it. I think it probably would have to depend on what is being linked to rather than a permanent ban on linking to the forum. If someone was linking to NDA information, for example, or an exploit, that would still have to be prohibited, but just a general link to a nonissue thread is probably fine.

Hello Cordovan.

It's actually nice to see someone from Turbine make an appearance over here. Maybe you should consider it something you need to do on a regular basis, as well.

 

As to the reasons linking this site was forbidden. It has more to do with our highlighting of the security breach that Turbine had around a year after the migration of the EU accounts, which is how we got ourselves into Sapience's bad books in the first place, and why most regulars here had targets on their backs over on the Official forums. While it never really impacted on me(one infraction in total), I've seen it impact a lot of others posters here. There are not many that I'd consider to truly deserve a permanent ban for what they've posted, and in the same vein, there are still people posting, un-punished (it would seem), on the Official forum for the same type of behaviour, but because they were "defending" the game, they weren't punished. That is how it appeared to a lot of us.

 

Hopefully, you will become a regular over here, and that an effort to bridge the divide will have a positive effect on LOTRO in the future, however long it will remain running.

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On 7/30/2016 at 6:24 AM, frodofraggins said:

That was my experience as well.  I was more annoyed with the ninja edit than anything else.  Although getting a warning for putting it back in was ridiculous as well considering they never notified me they purposely removed it.  At least inform people that you modified their signatures.   I simply linked to the website in my signature, not a particular thread.  Anyway, that was pretty much the end of my posting there and only posting here.

Sapience just loved power and control too much.  I have nothing nice to say about him and I'm saddened that he made celestrata  do his petty bidding.

Talking of bans for signatures, Sapience managed to put a ban on my account for having the words "Tyria awaits..." in my signature. No links, just those words. But it was the way he went about doing it that made me laugh.

That particular signature I had was forcibly removed by mods a couple of months before Celestrata perma banned me, and wasn't added again. And yet, when I later tried to appeal against my ban, the support team told me my perma ban was for having the GW2 signature. Supposedly, this infraction was given to me a few months AFTER Celestrata had already perma-banned me, and many months after it had already been taken down.

"Posthumous" infractions for fictitious reasons all to keep the perma-ban in place, since they knew the real reason wasn't strong enough to hold up on its own.

Actually, I'll dig out the emails to make it clear.

 

My first perma-ban email, sent to me 17 December 2012 16:38:15 (relevant parts bolded).

-

'Greetings [removed],

Thank you for contacting us!
After reviewing your account, we have found that you have been banned at the community team's discretion. Your final infraction was for creating trolling and provoking/insulting posts in a thread thanking a member of the staff. Creating posts in order to incite arguments, insult others, or to purposely close a thread are all violations of the community guidelines.
In order to investigate this situation, we have spoken with Celestrata regarding your ban. After speaking with her and reviewing the situation in its entirety, we have decided that we will uphold the permanent ban she has assigned to your account.

-

 

My second email, telling me what the other later perma-ban infraction was for, sent to me 17 Jan 2014 14:38:45.

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Greetings [removed],

You currently have 9 infractions and 3 warnings. You last infraction from April of 2013 resulted in a forum ban due to your signature containing advertisement or solicitations of games, goods, or services unrelated to The Lord of the Rings Online. This is a violation of the community guidelines and is a 20 point, non-expiring infraction.

-

 

Care to comment, Cordovan?

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2 hours ago, Doro said:

 

Care to comment, Cordovan?

IMHO waste of time. During Stalinist times, there was a saying "Give us the man, and we'll find the paragraph".  

Obviously the same approach with the ban, just thank the Paragons it's over. 

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I, too, would like Cordovan comment a bit more on the points raised here.

Not as an official statement for the company, just as in "Personally, I am aware of this claim yes/no", "Personally, I believe this claim yes/no". That sort of thing.

It would be useful to know where everybody stands.

We all know that Sapience, in addition to wronging many people, also spent considerable time deleting evidence of such wronging. That's why it would be useful to know what exactly our relationship is at this point. Is anybody at Turbine even aware of what Sapience did on work time, exactly?

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If I were you, Cordovan, I'd stick with improving things going forward instead of rehashing stuff from 2-3 years ago. Sure, revisit some bans if/when you get a chance but that seems best done through PMs. Otherwise, you will likely get caught up in the minutia of lawyer-speak and the saga of stuff people ought to just let go. It's already happening.

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