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This article tries to take a broader look on the mechanics of today's world than "Fuck Trump" or "Guardian's Lefties cry over Hilary".

Obviously its attempt failed.  

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1 hour ago, Jedy2 said:

This article tries to take a broader look on the mechanics of today's world than "Fuck Trump" or "Guardian's Lefties cry over Hilary".

Obviously its attempt failed.  

It's because The Guardian is really nothing more than Democrat propaganda.

It's like trying to cite a serious article in The Onion to back up an argument.  It fails because the source is what it is, despite how valid the article may (or may not) be.

The same can also be said about most news outlets in the US for matter >.>

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31 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's because The Guardian is really nothing more than Democrat propaganda.

It's like trying to cite a serious article in The Onion to back up an argument.  It fails because the source is what it is, despite how valid the article may (or may not) be.

The same can also be said about most news outlets in the US for matter >.>

If an article is valid then it doesnt matter where it is published.  A valid article is a valid article

 

On another note, it is really said that Scott Pruitt is to get the job as head of EPA.

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5 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

If an article is valid then it doesnt matter where it is published.  A valid article is a valid article

On another note, it is really said that Scott Pruitt is to get the job as head of EPA.

Given how stupidly overkill some of the EPA regs are, that may not be a bad thing.

There's a very big difference from protecting the environment compared to completely removing every single trace of humanity from an area while letting it go while without consideration to whether or not that's in the best interest of the land.  I'm also not advocating that we completely abuse the environment, as I do like seeing the scenery as much as the next person.

Case in point, I got to see entire mountains of pine trees die around Winter Park, Colorado because EPA and the US Forestry service prevented the pine tree forest from being thinned enough so the trees would survive, yet dense enough to keep the top soil intact.  The result was entire mountains of pines turning autumn colors - an oddly beautiful, yet very sad, sight as the mountains became naked.  The real tragedy is that the dead trees were of such poor wood quality that they were only fit for mulch and firewood, and nothing else.

Then there's the number that EPA did on the Colorado mining industry - which has gone all but extinct by the end of the 20th century.  Seeing one of the mining towns half buried in snow and completely abandoned is a haunting image of loss that I doubt I could ever truly do justice.  While some died because of spent minerals, a lot died because the environmentalists shut them down.

It's that kinda stuff where environmentalism has gone nuts that we need to curtail, and having someone that isn't completely buying into everything the EPA has been pedaling is going to help that.  That said, we DEFINITELY should not devolve into the same environmental quality practiced by the Chinese.

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18 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

If an article is valid then it doesnt matter where it is published.  A valid article is a valid article

 

Which should be obvious.  Unfortunately...

 

53 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's because The Guardian is really nothing more than Democrat propaganda.

It's like trying to cite a serious article in The Onion to back up an argument.  It fails because the source is what it is, despite how valid the article may (or may not) be.

The same can also be said about most news outlets in the US for matter >.>

Hannity is my choice for "news", when I crave a bizarro, suped up on crack, right-wing conspiracy bent take on the "news".  Or Alex Jones, he's a diamond in the ruff, a true patriot. 

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21 minutes ago, Papi said:

Hannity is my choice for "news", when I crave a bizarro, suped up on crack, right-wing conspiracy bent take on the "news".  Or Alex Jones, he's a diamond in the ruff, a true patriot. 

Didn't know you were one for conspiracy nuts...

Then again, a tin foil hat seems to suit you well...

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49 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Didn't know you were one for conspiracy nuts...

Then again, a tin foil hat seems to suit you well...

whereas sarcasm is clearly lost on you.  

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

Given how stupidly overkill some of the EPA regs are, that may not be a bad thing.

There's a very big difference from protecting the environment compared to completely removing every single trace of humanity from an area while letting it go while without consideration to whether or not that's in the best interest of the land.  I'm also not advocating that we completely abuse the environment, as I do like seeing the scenery as much as the next person.

Case in point, I got to see entire mountains of pine trees die around Winter Park, Colorado because EPA and the US Forestry service prevented the pine tree forest from being thinned enough so the trees would survive, yet dense enough to keep the top soil intact.  The result was entire mountains of pines turning autumn colors - an oddly beautiful, yet very sad, sight as the mountains became naked.  The real tragedy is that the dead trees were of such poor wood quality that they were only fit for mulch and firewood, and nothing else.

Then there's the number that EPA did on the Colorado mining industry - which has gone all but extinct by the end of the 20th century.  Seeing one of the mining towns half buried in snow and completely abandoned is a haunting image of loss that I doubt I could ever truly do justice.  While some died because of spent minerals, a lot died because the environmentalists shut them down.

It's that kinda stuff where environmentalism has gone nuts that we need to curtail, and having someone that isn't completely buying into everything the EPA has been pedaling is going to help that.  That said, we DEFINITELY should not devolve into the same environmental quality practiced by the Chinese.

He has a history of fighting the EPA in court.  He has sent letters of complaint to the EPA that were drafted by laywers from Devron Energy, a company that he has had funding from.

Hardly an unbiased person who will look at all options

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

whereas sarcasm is clearly lost on you.  

Oh noes...

Better mount up that drama llama and ride, there's windmills that need slaying Quixote.

32 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

He has a history of fighting the EPA in court.  He has sent letters of complaint to the EPA that were drafted by laywers from Devron Energy, a company that he has had funding from.

Hardly an unbiased person who will look at all options

Going by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_Energy (which is probably less accurate than the usual 70-80% right), Devon Energy doesn't seem that bad of an energy company, and least reads like they do actually care a bit about the environment - as the article reads like they've been trying to be more eco-centric since the '90's - which is probably more than can be said for a lot of the other energy companies out there.

The exact quote in question:

Quote

In 2014, an investigation by the New York Times uncovered that a three-page letter from Oklahoma's Attorney General Scott Pruitt to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, bluntly accusing regulators of grossly overestimating the amount of air pollution caused by drilling of new natural gas wells, was actually written by an attorney for Devon. The investigation found that "attorneys general in at least a dozen states are working with energy companies and other corporate interests, which in turn are providing them with record amounts of money for their political campaigns, including at least $16 million this year."

That falls in line with much of what my Dad has said from his professionally observations of EPA as a Certified Industrial Hygienist, specifically with how the levels that the EPA aims for with various chemicals is so far beyond safe that it's actually hurting companies.

A better analogy would be between giving a kid that's learning to skateboard for the first time the appropriate protective gear (which is normal), or wrapping the kind in about a foot of bubble wrap after they have put on the protective gear so they can't possibly hurt themselves (which is what the EPA is doing).

Having that context and insight into what's going on, it's not out of line, and given experiences in Colorado, it's something that I've wondered about the EPA for many years now.

And again to make this clear, I'm not suggesting we shouldn't protect the environment.  I'm just for doing that SANELY and without crippling business that want to operate in an ethical and environmentally friendly manner.

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1 hour ago, cossieuk said:

He has a history of fighting the EPA in court.  He has sent letters of complaint to the EPA that were drafted by laywers from Devron Energy, a company that he has had funding from.

Hardly an unbiased person who will look at all options

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/08/scott-pruitt-trump-s-climate-denying-epa-pick-is-worse-than-you-think.html

But I'm sure this probably makes as much sense as Ben Carson being in charge of HUD (someone who once compared government assisted housing to communism).

Ah look, another winner...http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/08/in-andy-puzder-donald-trump-makes-the-worst-possible-pick-for-secretary-of-labor.html

 

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3 hours ago, Papi said:

Which should be obvious.  Unfortunately...

 

Hannity is my choice for "news", when I crave a bizarro, suped up on crack, right-wing conspiracy bent take on the "news".  Or Alex Jones, he's a diamond in the ruff, a true patriot. 

Why not? Lots of people get/got their news from The Daily Show, The Colbert Report or Last Week Tonight so people may as well be well rounded. :P

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19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Yes, the article is clearly an example of unbiased journalism that doesn't fear monger in the least....

**hands Papi more tin foil** you're hat's missing a spot.

So which of these facts listed in the article are you disputing?

- He's a climate denier.

- He's sued the EPA five times (and lost)

- He openly defied court orders on same sex marriage and abortion

- He wants public schools to distribute religious materials to children

The top 2 being the most obvious issues of concern in regards to his appointment.

And Al...just to be clear...you and I have had some cool back and forth about FFXIV, but at the end of the day you're acting like a juvenile internet troll that likes to hurl insults--your interaction with Darmokk in this very thread proves that.  What's the point?  That you have to be right?  If that is what this is all about and what every argument with you is going to be like (and trust me, I've seen your handiwork here and on the OF) lets skip to the part where I give you your I-won-the-internet-today award and you can hang it on your wall. 

/shrug.

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21 minutes ago, Papi said:

So which of these facts listed in the article are you disputing?

- He's a climate denier.

So?  I suspect that all we're doing to the climate (if anything at all) is acting like an lens for increased solar energy coming into the atmosphere.  More energy into the system = warmer climates.

Please disprove that hypothesis.

Quote

- He's sued the EPA five times (and lost)

From what I've seen, he was justified.

Quote

- He openly defied court orders on same sex marriage and abortion

Abortion = murder of the unborn.

Same Sex marriage issue has already been resolved, as Trump has already mentioned in one of his speeches - so nobody's gonna challenge that one at this point.

Quote

- He wants public schools to distribute religious materials to children

We should do more to teach about religion in school - otherwise we're promoting the religion of Atheism/Agnosticism.

Quote

 but at the end of the day you're acting like a juvenile internet troll that likes to hurl insults--your interaction with Darmokk in this very thread proves that.

I'm only throwing insults at people that are still stuck in the Democratic echo chamber - the very same one that leaves people mystified at why Trump got elected and thoroughly convinced that we're doomed.  That's a perspective that would be hysterical if it wasn't what a part of the population actually believed because it's what they've been programmed to think.

Darmokk's got his head so far up his ass (and into that echo chamber) that there's little meaningful discussion with him to be had.

Quote

What's the point?  That you have to be right?  If that is what this is all about and what every argument with you is going to be like (and trust me, I've seen your handiwork here and on the OF) lets skip to the part where I give you your I-won-the-internet-today award and you can hang it on your wall. 

And like a true liberal, when you ACTUALLY encounter to someone that has a different opinion than you do, and is (quite frankly) getting tired of the regurgitated ad hominems (thus the mocking), you don't actually bring the intellect to the discussion, but turn and run away.

That kind of BS is exactly why 30 states voted for Trump and he beat Hillary by 70 electoral college votes.  That's an ass-kicking and a mandate for Trump.

And the reaction from the left should have been the expected bitching and moaning over social media... However; the riots and protests show how intolerant and hypocritical the left really is because it's OK for them to be violently dissentful, but WOE be it to the Republicans if they show any dissent whatsoever.  That double-standard can go fuck itself, and take political correctness with it too.

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@ Almagnus, we disagree on a host of issues (save for FFXIV).  The list is glaring so I'm not going to regurgitate them, it's pointless.  I'm wiling to agree to disagree.  That's not running away, that's making the decision to treat you like an adult (even if you aren't acting like one), let you have your opinion and move the fuck on.

I'm not going to change your mind.  You're not going to change my mind.  You can call me a true liberal with as much disdain as you can muster, that is your choice.  

I'd say let's take a look at the country in four years, but to be brutally honest...they way you are acting out now, it doesn't matter what Trump and his administration does or doesn't do. In your eyes, the "liberal left" will always be the worst case scenario of any scenario.  There really is no point in trying to counter that argument.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Papi said:

I'd say let's take a look at the country in four years, but to be brutally honest...they way you are acting out now, it doesn't matter what Trump and his administration does or doesn't do. In your eyes, the "liberal left" will always be the worst case scenario of any scenario.

So this is agreeing to disagreeing?  Doesn't that usually involve dropping the subject?

Since you insist on continuing this debacle...

Not always - sometimes the Democrats actually do make sense, and do have good ideas.  Unfortunately a whole lot of them have fallen off the left side of the spectrum with the SJWs, so it's really hard to distinguish the sane Democrats from the SJWs since a lot of the ideology has been so thoroughly intermingled.

And really, it's just Hillary in this election, because the Clintons are corrupt, and they have been pushing political correctness - which is really just censorship by a nicer name and a very Orwellian concept to boot.  Anything that encroaches upon the First Amendment as badly as political correctness does deserves nothing but destruction.

Really though, this entire election cycle was a completely self inflicted wound because the Democrats have lost touch with too many Americans, as proven by how badly they got beat this time around.

Quote

 There really is no point in trying to counter that argument.

Let me know once you've gotten your head dislodged... i think you've become some sort of ass backwards ouroboros at this point.

 

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A lot of the issue with the left comes from a complete lack of tolerance when someone wants to have an ideological difference with someone on the left...

Basically this (skip to 5:28 as the first few minutes are dead air):

 

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yeah the lefts shift into crazytown Marxist identity politics was a massive factor in dumping Clinton, but lets not forget the actual scandals either.

it is no surprise that post election, the Clinton foundations donations are dying up as big donors (including countries like Australia, Italy & Norway) pull out after her loss.

and just so folk don't rush to the accusation i read to much "Fake News" here is a piece from CNBC:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/19/clinton-foundation-seen-at-a-crossroads-after-hillary-clintons-dashed-white-house-dreams.html

yeah this network:

th?id=OIP.M78be76d46f735b0bd2c4756be05f5

so yeah, "pay to play" mud seems to stick, rather than being...  just a conspiracy.

or that other conspiracy about Hilary's' health...

...

there were plenty of reasons for the shift.

12 hours ago, Jedy2 said:

This article tries to take a broader look on the mechanics of today's world than "Fuck Trump" or "Guardian's Lefties cry over Hilary".

Obviously its attempt failed.  

that article calls Trump a white supremacist...  that extreme and obvious jaded view underpins all points and tract taken in the piece.  yeah it failed hard.

PS: Trump is NOT a white supremacist.

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14 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

We should do more to teach about religion in school - otherwise we're promoting the religion of Atheism/Agnosticism.

 

Why do we waste time and money on religious "education"? If parents want to teach there kids about a 2000 year old, poorly written, fairystory then send the kids to Sunday classes or church groups or whatever. Don't waste time teaching this crap in schools when we could be actually educating instead.

13 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 Anything that encroaches upon the First Amendment as badly as political correctness does deserves nothing but destruction.

Certainly wouldn't want to encroach on freedom of speech or the bill of rights in any way, that would be terrible. 

 

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2 hours ago, Laurinaohtar said:

Why do we waste time and money on religious "education"? If parents want to teach there kids about a 2000 year old, poorly written, fairystory then send the kids to Sunday classes or church groups or whatever. Don't waste time teaching this crap in schools when we could be actually educating instead.

Why not teach them both?

There's actually a lot of good proverbs in the book of Proverbs that make sense to live by.  Also a lot of good information if you take the time to read it.

But then again, you're convinced it's garbage, so I'm probably not going to persuade you.

2 hours ago, Laurinaohtar said:

Certainly wouldn't want to encroach on freedom of speech or the bill of rights in any way, that would be terrible. 

So you're saying that VIOLENTLY PROTESTING a result of a DEMOCRATIC election is OK?  That's what he was referring to - which is NOT a peaceful assembly.

You gotta put context to what Trump says cause he sound bites **REALLY** badly.  Then again, that doesn't mesh with your agenda.

10 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

yeah the lefts shift into crazytown Marxist identity politics was a massive factor in dumping Clinton, but lets not forget the actual scandals either.

The irony is that the left has actually regressed to a pre-Civl War era racist mentality because of identity politics.

And scandals only follow the incompetent.

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18 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

We should do more to teach about religion in school - otherwise we're promoting the religion of Atheism/Agnosticism.

I

And there would be no objections if the material covered was Islam

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

Why not teach them both?

There's actually a lot of good proverbs in the book of Proverbs that make sense to live by.  Also a lot of good information if you take the time to read it.

Because it takes time away from actual education and learning about things that actually exist. Morality and civility can be taught and encouraged without the need to refer to ancient texts,

Quote

 

 Then again, that doesn't mesh with your agenda.

 

No agenda, I have no horse in this race, I just find the whole episode a bit sad and believe Trump to be an incompetent fool.

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Heh, I was wondering about this....

http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms13728

Quote

The same can be true for GHG emissions, when the production of PV systems releases more GHG emissions than the electricity produced with PV can offset by replacing more GHG intensive electricity.

Turns out the photo voltaic cells (aka solar panels) aren't as green as we thought they were XD

So what else with this entire "green" energy stuff is also a load of BS?

3 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

And there would be no objections if the material covered was Islam

Are you suggesting Islam isn't a religion?

The more you know about the world, the better you can integrate into it, especially as global as we are becoming.

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18 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Are you suggesting Islam isn't a religion?

The more you know about the world, the better you can integrate into it, especially as global as we are becoming.

Of course it is a religion.  My point was that there are a number of people in the US that would have a fit if their kids were taught all about Islam and even given a copy of the Koran to read.

Often when people say religion should be taught in school, they actually mean Christianity, or their denomination of Christianity, should be taught in school.

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37 minutes ago, Laurinaohtar said:

Because it takes time away from actual education and learning about things that actually exist. Morality and civility can be taught and encouraged without the need to refer to ancient texts,

 

Careful now, when it comes to religion, applying logic to a situation--even a practical one like public education--doesn't always work. :)

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