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LasraelLarson

Have you voted? ;)

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45 minutes ago, Doro said:

1. It's pointless speculating...

2. Great, Trump makes a stupid comment, so that means liberal racism in the form of low expectations magically isn't racism anymore.

1.  That goes for both sides of the argument.  Accept that, as it has already been pointed out, some of us have a different perspective than you do.  Some of us are from or have lived in parts of the country you seem to know little about.  

2.  So Trump is simply making a "stupid comment" and not being racist.  Got it.

 

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

Uh. That latter issue is why you force people into health insurance. You cannot have people only get health insurance when they need it. Yes, that is socialist, but it is mainly your younger self being socialist with your older self.

None of this stuff can work when people like  Almagnus1 delay getting insurance until they know they need it.

I'd say it's that stuff that's broken, not people making sensible choices for themselves.

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53 minutes ago, Papi said:

1.  That goes for both sides of the argument.  Accept that, as it has already been pointed out, some of us have a different perspective than you do.  Some of us are from or have lived in parts of the country you seem to know little about.  

2.  So Trump is simply making a "stupid comment" and not being racist.  Got it.

 

1. What argument? Look back at what I said, you'll find I'm not making any argument. I'm repeating what's already being claimed by the racist pseudo-liberals.

2. Racist or not, it doesn't excuse racism from others, which is what you tried to do.

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36 minutes ago, Doro said:

1. What argument? Look back at what I said, you'll find I'm not making any argument. I'm repeating what's already being claimed by the racist pseudo-liberals.

 

I did look back at your post...

9 hours ago, Doro said:

The latest in the pseudo-liberal excuses and insults being thrown about is that those racist voter ID laws got in the way of a Clinton win, so only the racists (anyone who has at least some money and happens to have white skin, that is) could really vote. According to them, black people are so poor and stupid, they can't go down to the DMV and get ID, so they're using those laws as an excuse to keep black people down. Plus, blacks are also all criminals and, since criminals can't vote, it's getting in the way of more Clinton votes.

 

Show me one quote or a sound bite where a pseudo-liberal racist (sigh) implies any of the above.  Just one.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Papi said:

I did look back at your post...

Show me one quote or a sound bite where a pseudo-liberal racist (sigh) implies any of the above.  Just one.

 

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3 hours ago, Darmokk said:

Uh. That latter issue is why you force people into health insurance. You cannot have people only get health insurance when they need it. Yes, that is socialist, but it is mainly your younger self being socialist with your older self.

That's actually the result of the health care premiums and coverage going to shit because a lot of people think that it's OK to be morbidly obese - when it's really a serious health condition as no one person under 6' tall should be over 300 lbs, yet many are.

The other problem with saying everyone must have health insurance without regulating the living crap out of it (which Obamacare DID NOT DO) is that the health insurance companies will do exactly what happened because, hey, free money.

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None of this stuff can work when people like  Almagnus1 delay getting insurance until they know they need it.

How about you don't make insurance mandatory, so insurance drops in price because the insurance companies have to be competitive with each other again?

That's where Obamacare screwed up, as most of the signups for Obamacare are businesses providing health care that didn't previously.  THe other segment are people that are poor because their stupid (not poor because life crapped on them) and are signing up because they can't do the math - which means people that can't afford health insurance are getting it at the expense of everything else.

Calling Obamacare an achievement is like saying "I should be on the honor roll with my 0.9 GPA!"

I still find it funny that you aren't separating the loss of the personal policy from my work policy.... typical democrat pulling fiction from facts and generalizing what I'm saying to make their point.

Please, fail harder.

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

White people are so stupid.

Those pansies lost their "white card" (whatever that is) when they started turning against and denied their own ancestry.

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it is rather uncanny:

xOBCd9Y.jpg

 

shifting fashions i guess.

 

regardless, to all the disenfranchised American Socialists thinking of heading North...  DON'T!

canadian-border-patrol-watching-for-ille

Canada is very "WHITE".

try heading south...  or do you have something against Mexicans?

...the hypocrisy is almost as endless as all the recent salty tears.

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's actually the result of the health care premiums and coverage going to shit because a lot of people think that it's OK to be morbidly obese - when it's really a serious health condition as no one person under 6' tall should be over 300 lbs, yet many are.

The other problem with saying everyone must have health insurance without regulating the living crap out of it (which Obamacare DID NOT DO) is that the health insurance companies will do exactly what happened because, hey, free money.

How about you don't make insurance mandatory, so insurance drops in price because the insurance companies have to be competitive with each other again?

That's where Obamacare screwed up, as most of the signups for Obamacare are businesses providing health care that didn't previously.  THe other segment are people that are poor because their stupid (not poor because life crapped on them) and are signing up because they can't do the math - which means people that can't afford health insurance are getting it at the expense of everything else.

Calling Obamacare an achievement is like saying "I should be on the honor roll with my 0.9 GPA!"

I still find it funny that you aren't separating the loss of the personal policy from my work policy.... typical democrat pulling fiction from facts and generalizing what I'm saying to make their point.

Please, fail harder.

The line of thinking that more health insurance coverage drives up prices is easily dismissed. Among Western nations the US has the least coverage and the highest prices for healthcare.

The Germans in particular have enormous coverage and much lower prices. Lower prices although they obey to all trademark and patents that American companies set on medication.

High prices for heathcare have all kinds of reasons but increased insurance coverage is not one. You can easily track it to companies raising prices on medication, prices for procedures going up, lease cost for the hospitals going up. The reasons are many and complex.

Your idea that you pay more for your insurance because they forced some fat white trash in is also going against what you said earlier. If people cherry-pick and get health insurance when their health goes bad those people were already in the insurance before you came along.

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

The line of thinking that more health insurance coverage drives up prices is easily dismissed. Among Western nations the US has the least coverage and the highest prices for healthcare.

Again, you missed the point.

Prices are going up because healthcare is compulsory now, and the insurance companies know they can raise their rates, and they have done jsut that.

The premium on my personal plan went from ~220/month to over 300/month, and was then dropped when Assurant dropped health insurance.  A competing policy was going to be 400/month.  My deductable went from 500/year to 2000/year, and I can't find one cheaper than 4000/year here for a personal policy.  That deductible is so high that it completely renders a personal policy a waste of money.  The fine for no insurance is like 2.5k-3k/year, so when I'm already paying for everything out of pocket, why waste more money?

All of this because of that stupid legislation.

So, tell me that I'm wrong to drop the secondary policy and lean only on my work policy.

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The Germans in particular have enormous coverage and much lower prices. Lower prices although they obey to all trademark and patents that American companies set on medication.

Germans also don't do the stupid stuff Americans pride ourselves on as "accomplishments".

German mass transit completely smokes everything we do.

The Autobahn shows us how an Interstate system should run.

The German education system smokes ours, especially when it comes to test results.

German automobiles are superior to anything produced in the States.

And they even school us on chocolate as German Chocolate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> American Chocolate

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High prices for heathcare have all kinds of reasons but increased insurance coverage is not one. You can easily track it to companies raising prices on medication, prices for procedures going up, lease cost for the hospitals going up. The reasons are many and complex.

But it all boils down to letting a bunch of people with no business sense that are in the pocket of the insurance and pharmaceutical industry write legislation that only benefits those industries.

Aka corruption.

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Your idea that you pay more for your insurance because they forced some fat white trash in is also going against what you said earlier. If people cherry-pick and get health insurance when their health goes bad those people were already in the insurance before you came along.

Eh, no, it's more complex than that, and I'll try to explain it (as pointless as this may be because you aren't listening).

Prices rose because of a combination of health insurance being compulsory, and insurance companies taking advantage of that.  Prices also rose because of the increased health risk of more people getting onto insurance that weren't there, the minority of the fatasses, and others that require significantly more in health insurance costs than the average person.

Oh, and I never said they were white you racist.

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Germany has higher unemployment than the US and lots and lots of people who play havoc with their health. They also finance cheap health insurance for students and the like, and all those refugees get healthcare, too.

Still, health cost is cheaper there. Both for individual procedures, and for per-person yearly spending.

You still didn't explain why you think that more coverage leads to higher premiums when the German experience is the opposite. They do not have state-financed healthcare, they have insurance companies (with strong regulation, though).

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

You still didn't explain why you think that more coverage leads to higher premiums when the German experience is the opposite. They do not have state-financed healthcare, they have insurance companies (with strong regulation, though).

It's because you're missing that the real info is why the coverage number is what it is (health care being compulsory) that's the problem, and the coverage number itself is nothing more than a red herring.  Health care being compulsory is what's driving up the premiums (through greed) in addition to covering a bunch of people that were not able to get health care initially (an increase in risk on the insurer).

You seem to be coming across as someone on the sidelines that doesn't understand how all this stuff works, because this is like the third or fourth time I've pointed out that health insurance being compulsory is the problem.

And health insurance =/= health care.  A government health care program could be ran without the concept of insurance anywhere in the picture.

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19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's because you're missing that the real info is why the coverage number is what it is (health care being compulsory) that's the problem, and the coverage number itself is nothing more than a red herring.  Health care being compulsory is what's driving up the premiums (through greed) in addition to covering a bunch of people that were not able to get health care initially (an increase in risk on the insurer).

You seem to be coming across as someone on the sidelines that doesn't understand how all this stuff works, because this is like the third or fourth time I've pointed out that health insurance being compulsory is the problem.

And health insurance =/= health care.  A government health care program could be ran without the concept of insurance anywhere in the picture.

I seem to have a lot more background in other healthcare systems than you. Other than saying "xyz is the problem" without stating anything specific you didn't contribute anything.

The least you could do is look how much of the increase in insurance cost is actually ending up in their pockets, as opposed to increased spending. Increased spending due to more expensive care per person. Or due to some new people costing more on average than the previous people. Those are publically  tradeded companies, the information is available.

In any case as long as Americans tolerate that actual medical cost skyrockets without end, and much more so than in any other country, that whole discussion about how to distribute the load is the actual red herring.

People like you tend not to understand how expensive even routine treatments are here. Not having health insurance is dumb. Unless you have hundreds of thousand of dollars loose cash around.

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

The least you could do is look how much of the increase in insurance cost is actually ending up in their pockets, as opposed to increased spending. Increased spending due to more expensive care per person. Or due to some new people costing more on average than the previous people. Those are publically  tradeded companies, the information is available.

So you mean not understanding the entire malpractice insurance debacle because hospitals are afraid of being sued combined with procedures that are insanely expensive because they can hide it all in the insurance and other dodge things?

Riiiiiggght.....

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In any case as long as Americans tolerate that actual medical cost skyrockets without end, and much more so than in any other country, that whole discussion about how to distribute the load is the actual red herring.

When we are forced to buy insurance, and that is part of the contributing factor of the cost inflation because we can't tell them "NO" because the hospital can simply say "just die already", what options are left?

Malpractice insurance risks prevent new hospitals from springing up, and the average American's too stupid to really realize how badly Obamacare screwed up the entire system.

Then there's defenders of it like you who would NEVER dispute anything the Democrats did because they can do no wrong, but the Republicans are a bunch of racist, bigoted, misogynistic, incompetent idiots who can NEVER do anything right.

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People like you tend not to understand how expensive even routine treatments are here. Not having health insurance is dumb. Unless you have hundreds of thousand of dollars loose cash around.

That's why preventative checkups are worth their weight in gold...

However, if even those checkups must be covered by out of pocket because deductibles are completely out of whack that it makes the insurance not worth carrying because it's generally not doing anything for most of the year.

The entire situation is so screwed up, and it all started once Obamacare went into action - Obamacare caused my health insurance coverage to go DOWN because it so thoroughly screwed up my personal policy to the point that the insurance company just abandoned medical insurance all together.  And that was a GOOD policy too.

So yeah, I somehow don't understand how expensive things are that I'm paying for out of pocket because...

Oh yeah, that's right, I'm talking to a Democrat that knows everything, and I'm clearly wrong because they've said I'm wrong (and not by any other actual proof).

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11 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

Canada is very "WHITE".

try heading south...  or do you have something against Mexicans?

...the hypocrisy is almost as endless as all the recent salty tears.

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

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42 minutes ago, Doro said:

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

Many would disagree. Especially in Quebec. 

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Since the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed, Democrats have lost net (approx.): 12 Senators, 65 House of Representative seats, 11 Governorships, 900+ state legislators, and 12 states have gone to 1 party control & now, the Presidency.

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34 minutes ago, FundinStrongarm said:

Since the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed, Democrats have lost net (approx.): 12 Senators, 65 House of Representative seats, 11 Governorships, 900+ state legislators, and 12 states have gone to 1 party control & now, the Presidency.

The U.S. needed a health care reform.  That isn't even debatable.  The Republicans fought the ACA every step of the way.  They demonized it (remember "death panels" lol), arguably, because it took the first black President to finally pass serious health reform in the country.  It needs work, yes.  But that takes cooperation from both sides--not an outright dismantling of the entire program that will cause millions of Americans to lose health coverage and costs billions of tax payer dollars to make happen. Both sides of the aisle have been blindly partisan and what you have listed above is the result.  

Plus, nearly half the country didn't even vote.  That is why we have the President elect we do now.

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4 hours ago, Doro said:

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

I heard many say Ireland, can't say I heard anyone say Canada? I have applied for an Irish passport, I qualify through grandparents, mostly just to beat queues at airports so I can still use the "in the EU queue"

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As far as the on-going debate you two are having over the ACA and it's struggling status.  When you define something as a basic/fundamental need with a legal bare minimum then turn around and let cost be driven in part or in whole by free market forces you are an idiot as you've just created a cluster fuck.  It is  either a basic service/requirement with a floor/ceiling price range, or a supply/demand driven market.  Doing both makes it a POS bit of legislation that won't ever work right.  And that's in an industry with fairly tight margins and limited fraud/waist issues, none of which can be ascribed to the US medical industry where a procedure in one locale would cost 1-10k while one county over the same procedure with the same specialist costs 20-60k.  We won't even go into drug pricing.

 

If the ACA had been implemented as a straight up entitlement system it could have worked relatively painlessly.  Or conversely actively implemented measures that addressed inflated cost drivers.  In either case it's future would be more assured.  As it's written?  probably not long for this world due to simple economic forces and basic human nature regardless of DC's efforts.  Insurance providers aren't pulling out of the market as a gimmick or fad.

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15 hours ago, Darmokk said:

Germany has higher unemployment than the US and lots and lots of people who play havoc with their health. They also finance cheap health insurance for students and the like, and all those refugees get healthcare, too.

Still, health cost is cheaper there. Both for individual procedures, and for per-person yearly spending.

You still didn't explain why you think that more coverage leads to higher premiums when the German experience is the opposite. They do not have state-financed healthcare, they have insurance companies (with strong regulation, though).

Dont many Germans get their health insurance via a non profit organisation, known as sickness funds.

Take  profit out of health care and it wi-ll be better for all users

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@ cossieuk in the early days of the ACA there were similar non-profits in the market.  However the simple economics of the state of the medical industry made it impossible for them to exist, so they don't'.  Now even for-profit providers are pulling out.  As long as vast tracts of the industry represent an avenue to print cash , no non-profit is going to have an easy time covering operating costs.  The one player in all this who actually has the bargaining power to limit costs chose not to use it, the federal  govt.

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3 hours ago, Laurinaohtar said:

I heard many say Ireland, can't say I heard anyone say Canada? I have applied for an Irish passport, I qualify through grandparents, mostly just to beat queues at airports so I can still use the "in the EU queue"

Oh you missed out on all the fun!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-result-brexit-moving-to-canada_uk_576d1798e4b08d2c56390720

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36730174

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/uk-eu-brexit-vote-move-to-canada-1.3651308

They're very passionate about a lot of things, those on the far left, but they just aren't keen to actually put it into practice.

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