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LasraelLarson

Have you voted? ;)

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1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

So what about using the ancient Greek and Roman texts with respect to teaching government basics?

What about applying Sun Tzu's Art of War to business?

Only a fool discards a text because it's not modern.

If you don't have a horse in the race (IE you didn't vote in the last US presidential election) what does your opinion about Trump really matter?

Can people not discuss issues?

If you want to teach a civics course you could start with Greek and Roman texts and move to modern times. Same with a world religions course, I suppose. But teaching that there is a God and the mysticism around it belongs at home or a place of worship, not at school, imo.

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13 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

If you don't have a horse in the race (IE you didn't vote in the last US presidential election) what does your opinion about Trump really matter?

None, it's just an opinion, you can choose to ignore it.

Here is my longer opinion (again, it doesn't matter at all, just the opinion of an English nerd), we talk about the far right and the far left in this debate as if they even matter, I'm certain that the extreme far right racist, homophobic, islamaphobic types probably mostly voted Trump and the the far left, ultra liberal so called SJW's probably voted Clintion but they both make up a very small minority of actual voters and can effectively be dismissed. Whats sad is that the majority who occupy the moderate right or left were gullible enough to elect Trump and listen to all the crap he promises (without ever explaining how he will accomplish it), it's ironic that part of Trumps campaign was based on having a go at the media and press yet he managed to manipulate them so successfully that so many people fell for it, I guess in that respect we should at least give him (or his campaign team) some credit.

My quotes got messed up but Sun Tzu and Ancient Greek\Roman texts were not works of fiction like the Bible.

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9 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Only a fool discards a text because it's not modern.

Only a fool sticks with a book that is full of contradictions and outright lies

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20 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

We should do more to teach about religion in school - otherwise we're promoting the religion of Atheism/Agnosticism.

as long as the establishment clause of the constitution is upheld, i see nothing wrong with a religious studies course. though i can't see that needed prior to a post secondary level, around the same time poli-sci courses and such are offered.

that said, the state of educators...  all the way from grade school to university has shifted so far to the (Marxist) Left...  presenting material for study Vs. indoctrination...  it is such a can of worms currently.  i would be soo incredibly leery of opportunists pushing agendas, rather than presenting material for study & evaluation.

as to the free exercise thereof...  i think it is best left to private freedoms, including assembly (churches & religiously funded schools.)

as to promoting Atheism/Agnosticism...  whilst i would agree if you argued that was the default status of individuals on that side of the poli spectrum & it is promoted indirectly via all these new courses on identity politics...  i can't say i agree that the absence of religious studies itself is the cause, but rather the overall shift away from standardized curriculum in favor of feelings based presentations.  

 

5 hours ago, Laurinaohtar said:

 

 

 

we can link tweets?

heh, heh  :D

as you can see from above, in 2005 Hillary sponsored a flag burning bill.  it never passed.

Trumps twitter game, leads news cycles & sometimes it just gets (usually the media) to put their foot in mouth.  you may not particularly appreciate the presentation, but overwhelmingly it is an effective tool for him to talk past the filters & go direct.  i hope he keeps up the practice.

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2 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

in 2005 Hillary sponsored a flag burning bill.  it never passed.

 

It was as equally stupid in 2005

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17 minutes ago, Laurinaohtar said:

It was as equally stupid in 2005

flag making companies would agree...

the actual burning of the flag isn't a problem, but rather the peripheral violence.  that sometimes has unintentional humor.

never stomp on a burning flag dummy:

 

you are on fire dopey:

 

not the brightest bulbs burn flags, makes for terrible optics to boot.  i am fairly certain with Trumps tweet, even more morons will display their lack of judgement.  they are free to do so in my books... 

#dumb-asses.

 

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The Boy Scouts of America burn flags all the time.  In fact they have a ceremony where they retire old flags and often burn them.  Would be really weird if they lost their citizenship for doing that. 

I just dont understand the relationship many Americans have with their flag.  If someone was to burn my countries flag, either the Saltire or the Union flag, I would not care at all.  Getting upset about a bit of coloured cloth is just beyond me

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7 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

Prove it, or you're a fool talking about things they don't know.

Prove what, that it is full of contradictions - http://www.answering-christianity.com/101_bible_contradictions.htm

or that it is full of lies - http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/22/5-massive-lies-the-bible-tells-about-jesus-5769183/.

22 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

There's a very big difference between disposal of a worn flag (which is what the Boy Scouts do) and burning one in protest.

The disposal process is actually very respectful of the flag, the latter is not.  The lack of respect is the key here.

 

Trump clearly said nobody should be allowed to do it, not only people doing it respectfully can do it.  

25 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

It's a symbol of the US, much like the Queen and her royal family are a symbol of the UK.

How well would it go over in London if someone burned an epitaph of the Queen in a public square?

Honestly I would not care.  Not everyone loves the Queen or the Royal family.  In fact their is a growing number of people that want rid of the Monarchy.

 

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25 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Half of those examples can be explained away with simple rounding.  Bear in mind that people wrote the Bible, and people can make mistakes in counting.  The Bible is better thought of as a library chronicling the ancient Hebrews up to the time of Jesus combined with the story of Jesus and letters of His followers after the death of Jesus.  Keep in mind that the contributors are spanning several thousands of years, with some parts likely coming from oral tradition before being written down, and the Hebrews liked to exaggerate to get a point across (same with repetition), so exact historical accuracy can be dubious in some spots, but that's not what the Bible is intended to be used as.

 

But half cant, so full on contradictions.  Also the Bible is the word of God, so why didnt he correct the people that made the mistakes.  Also the Bible is an editied collection of stories picked by the Vatican.  There are many books that didnt make the final cut, including 1 that had dragons that retired when a baby Jesus came before them.

29 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

Point is to some these flags are very symbolic of the US, and burning them in a disrespectful manner is considered offensive.

That and people keep lighting themselves on fire when they do burn flags, so there's a public safety concern with the act as well.

Perhaps Americans feel what they do for their flag as it is a symbol of their short history.  There is so much where I live that is much older then the US, there is even a house that was built in 1471, before Columbus set sail and didnt discover America.

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On 9.12.2016 at 0:56 AM, Almagnus1 said:

We should do more to teach about religion in school - otherwise we're promoting the religion of Atheism/Agnosticism.

And... that would be an issue, because?

SNy

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13 minutes ago, SNy said:

And... that would be an issue, because?

SNy

It scares people of religion that people can live a normal happy fulfilled life without their God

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

You need faith for math and science to work, as you must make certain assumptions upon which everything else is built, and if you do not have faith that those assumptions are accurate and valid, the entire thing falls apart.

You've given the phrase "grasping for straws" a whole new meaning.  Faith in math or science is built on empirical evidence...I'm hoping I don't have to explain the contrast when comparing it to faith in regards to religion.  I guess if you want to dig down to the bottom of an online list of possible definitions of a word and use it to fit your narrative, that is your choice.  But the absence of religion is most definitely not a religion in of itself.  As before, we'll have to agree to disagree.

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I love the argument that not having a religion is equally a religion, it cheers me up and validates my opinion about some trump supporters intelligence

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10 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Apparently you know less of math and science that I do...

Very well...

First, go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_arithmetic

That theory must be true, or the entire number system falls apart.  Without the number system underpinning all of math and science, they fall apart.

This means that you must have faith that the above theory is true.  Note that it's a theory, not a law, because it cannot be proven.

Ergo https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

That's where faith plays a part in science.

That should also be obvious to anyone that knows anything at all about math and science.

I don't need a narrative when I can point at the theories themselves, and show that many assumptions are needed to create what we know in math and science.  If you'd like for me to continue with this, I can.

Yeah, I think you've already proven you (think) know more about everything than anyone.

The original statement was about religion, not faith.  You can apply the word faith to just about everything.  But religion has a very specific origin.

But I'm glad you've mastered the art of using Google.  Keep reaching.

Edited by Papi
typo

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Having problems quoting on my phone, just wanted to mention that scientific theory still requires proof and evidence, not faith. Let's not mix up the scientific use of the word theory and the general use. Scientific theories remain theories and not laws because, in spite of all the evidence and proof about the theory science is open to the idea that at some point in the future new evidence may come to light. Scientific theory doesn't mean that there is a lack of proof

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1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

Either that or I've completely above your education level, and this discussion is so far out of your comfort zone that you have to devolve to insults at this point, and you're just too ashamed to admit it - exactly the behavior I expect from a libtard.

 

Don't be a hypocrite.  You trying to lecture anyone on "devolving to insults" is laughable.  It's plain and simple, you can't--with any intelligence anyway--back up your argument about non-belief in a religion being a religion itself so you deflect by showing your mastery of Google to give us the definition of "faith" (which was never part of the discussion) and how you think it applies to math and science.   You know you're reaching, but as you seem incapable of admitting when you are wrong and can't resist having the last word, I full expect another not-so-clever retort to follow.

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7 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

You mean when the Vikings found America a few centuries before Columbus, or the Native Americans long before that?

 

You need to learn your history....

We were talking about the US flag and by extension the USA, not North America.  The Vikings did not discover the United States of America.  They fund the landmass that became the USA, but the USA was founded in 1776

I have a decent level on knowledge of history.

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You know, I was kinda with him a little until he started this religion = math bit. Or, not having a religion = having a religion bit. Some people get in so deep they don't know they need to stop digging.

The Carrier and Boeing crap is not giving me much hope for Trump. We'll see how it goes.

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13 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

You're promoting one religion over another, which is actually in violation of:

Nonsense, as other people have already pointed out, not adhering to a religion is certainly not a religion in and of itself. Additionally, you've failed to elaborate on why not adhering to a religion should be an issue.

You're also pulling the supposed promotion out of thin air, as not educating someone one some thing is quite obviously not identical to promoting the opposite thing.

6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

That theory must be true, or the entire number system falls apart.  Without the number system underpinning all of math and science, they fall apart.

This means that you must have faith that the above theory is true.  Note that it's a theory, not a law, because it cannot be proven.

Maybe you should re-read the article you linked to? It states that it has been proven, by Gauss, in 1801.

SNy

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1 hour ago, SNy said:

 

Maybe you should re-read the article you linked to? It states that it has been proven, by Gauss, in 1801.

 

He also completely misunderstands the difference between scientific theory and law

Quote

Note that it's a theory, not a law, because it cannot be proven.

A law, such as Newtons Law of Gravity explains how an observed phenomenon (such as gravity) behaves. Note Newtons law doesn't explain what gravity is or how it works, just how it behaves, we can use Newtons Law of Gravity to accurately calculate how to put satellites into orbit for example. There are various scientific theories on how gravity works and the physics behind, all based on observed evidence and facts, none based on faith. Theories generally describe what a  phenomenon is or how it exists, Laws describe the phenomenon itself and how it behaves, often in the form of a mathematical equation. 

A law is actually generally the starting place for a theory.

It is however a common misconception among people who like to dismiss evolution for example as "just a theory"

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7 hours ago, cossieuk said:

I have started a new hobby, its not collecting stamps

i was going to go with that one myself, but i decided on a softer glove.  that said...

i think the contentious point, is not the absence of, but rather the opposition too.  you not collecting stamps isn't antithetical to other people collecting stamps, or in direct opposition to, or discouraging new people from finding the hobby. & a stamp collector is still a stamp collector, whether they are one, or myriad.

now if the desire to collect stamps was an innate human condition...  would it awaken on its own?  or would it require an outer confirmation?

or is it developed?  and is need of a catalysis to be activated?

tribalism & human mimicry  have been a functional part of human development.  & there was a "first stamp collector" shortly after the invention of postal services & stamp collectors will continue to exist as long as there are stamps to collect.  the lack of stamp usage however, will hasten the demise of the stamp itself.  the desire to collect stamps however...   ;)

 

1 hour ago, Papi said:

oh it is being covered on FOX:

who woulda thunk it would be modern day Democrats screaming McCarthyism...   oops, i mean Muh Russia!

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28 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

i was going to go with that one myself, but i decided on a softer glove.  that said...

i think the contentious point, is not the absence of, but rather the opposition too.  you not collecting stamps isn't antithetical to other people collecting stamps, or in direct opposition to, or discouraging new people from finding the hobby. & a stamp collector is still a stamp collector, whether they are one, or myriad.

now if the desire to collect stamps was an innate human condition...  would it awaken on its own?  or would it require an outer confirmation?

or is it developed?  and is need of a catalysis to be activated?

tribalism & human mimicry  have been a functional part of human development.  & there was a "first stamp collector" shortly after the invention of postal services & stamp collectors will continue to exist as long as there are stamps to collect.  the lack of stamp usage however, will hasten the demise of the stamp itself.  the desire to collect stamps however...   ;)

 

oh it is being covered on FOX:

who woulda thunk it would be modern day Democrats screaming McCarthyism...   oops, i mean Muh Russia!

And I thought Hannity was bad...also, Tucker needs to tell his make up folks to lay off a bit.

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