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LasraelLarson

Have you voted? ;)

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10 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

The same idiots that passed Obamacare......

Well, no.

This thing is from the 1920s and 1930s. Both parties have effectively reversed direction since then. Obamacare supporters today argue that obamacare is the best you can do given that framework, and they would not have chosen that framework if they had a choice.

I also have to remind you that the law that emergency rooms have to treat everybody, even when they can't pay, has been passed in the 1980s when there was a Republican president and both houses of congress were had a republican majority.  This is a major factor driving up healthcare cost in the US since people with no insurance just delay going until they are ripe for the ER.

As you can see, it is very hard to pin this mess on any particular party.

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3 hours ago, Darmokk said:

Well, no.

This thing is from the 1920s and 1930s. Both parties have effectively reversed direction since then. Obamacare supporters today argue that obamacare is the best you can do given that framework, and they would not have chosen that framework if they had a choice.

I also have to remind you that the law that emergency rooms have to treat everybody, even when they can't pay, has been passed in the 1980s when there was a Republican president and both houses of congress were had a republican majority.  This is a major factor driving up healthcare cost in the US since people with no insurance just delay going until they are ripe for the ER.

As you can see, it is very hard to pin this mess on any particular party.

Small correction. Democrats controlled the House from 1955-1995. Republicans did control the Senate from '81-'87 though.

People now delay getting health insurance until they are sick - hence why insurance premiums are going up by double digits.

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1 minute ago, FundinStrongarm said:

Small correction. Democrats controlled the House from 1955-1995. Republicans did control the Senate from '81-'87 though.

People now delay getting health insurance until they are sick - hence why insurance premiums are going up by double digits.

Uh. That latter issue is why you force people into health insurance. You cannot have people only get health insurance when they need it. Yes, that is socialist, but it is mainly your younger self being socialist with your older self.

None of this stuff can work when people like  Almagnus1 delay getting insurance until they know they need it.

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5 hours ago, Papi said:

1. It actually means a lot.  What if the only available polling station for that community is now 80-100 miles away?  It makes a difference, whether you see it or not is irrelevant (i.e. perspective).  I'm not even going to comment on that last sentence.

2. Both are insults.  

1. And what if tigers were fish? It's pointless speculating when we're talking communities that are mostly in cities. They aren't closing polling stations across a whole city and public transport exists.

2. Great, Trump makes a stupid comment, so that means liberal racism in the form of low expectations magically isn't racism anymore.

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45 minutes ago, Doro said:

1. It's pointless speculating...

2. Great, Trump makes a stupid comment, so that means liberal racism in the form of low expectations magically isn't racism anymore.

1.  That goes for both sides of the argument.  Accept that, as it has already been pointed out, some of us have a different perspective than you do.  Some of us are from or have lived in parts of the country you seem to know little about.  

2.  So Trump is simply making a "stupid comment" and not being racist.  Got it.

 

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1 hour ago, Darmokk said:

Uh. That latter issue is why you force people into health insurance. You cannot have people only get health insurance when they need it. Yes, that is socialist, but it is mainly your younger self being socialist with your older self.

None of this stuff can work when people like  Almagnus1 delay getting insurance until they know they need it.

I'd say it's that stuff that's broken, not people making sensible choices for themselves.

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53 minutes ago, Papi said:

1.  That goes for both sides of the argument.  Accept that, as it has already been pointed out, some of us have a different perspective than you do.  Some of us are from or have lived in parts of the country you seem to know little about.  

2.  So Trump is simply making a "stupid comment" and not being racist.  Got it.

 

1. What argument? Look back at what I said, you'll find I'm not making any argument. I'm repeating what's already being claimed by the racist pseudo-liberals.

2. Racist or not, it doesn't excuse racism from others, which is what you tried to do.

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36 minutes ago, Doro said:

1. What argument? Look back at what I said, you'll find I'm not making any argument. I'm repeating what's already being claimed by the racist pseudo-liberals.

 

I did look back at your post...

9 hours ago, Doro said:

The latest in the pseudo-liberal excuses and insults being thrown about is that those racist voter ID laws got in the way of a Clinton win, so only the racists (anyone who has at least some money and happens to have white skin, that is) could really vote. According to them, black people are so poor and stupid, they can't go down to the DMV and get ID, so they're using those laws as an excuse to keep black people down. Plus, blacks are also all criminals and, since criminals can't vote, it's getting in the way of more Clinton votes.

 

Show me one quote or a sound bite where a pseudo-liberal racist (sigh) implies any of the above.  Just one.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Papi said:

I did look back at your post...

Show me one quote or a sound bite where a pseudo-liberal racist (sigh) implies any of the above.  Just one.

 

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

White people are so stupid.

Those pansies lost their "white card" (whatever that is) when they started turning against and denied their own ancestry.

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it is rather uncanny:

xOBCd9Y.jpg

 

shifting fashions i guess.

 

regardless, to all the disenfranchised American Socialists thinking of heading North...  DON'T!

canadian-border-patrol-watching-for-ille

Canada is very "WHITE".

try heading south...  or do you have something against Mexicans?

...the hypocrisy is almost as endless as all the recent salty tears.

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

That's actually the result of the health care premiums and coverage going to shit because a lot of people think that it's OK to be morbidly obese - when it's really a serious health condition as no one person under 6' tall should be over 300 lbs, yet many are.

The other problem with saying everyone must have health insurance without regulating the living crap out of it (which Obamacare DID NOT DO) is that the health insurance companies will do exactly what happened because, hey, free money.

How about you don't make insurance mandatory, so insurance drops in price because the insurance companies have to be competitive with each other again?

That's where Obamacare screwed up, as most of the signups for Obamacare are businesses providing health care that didn't previously.  THe other segment are people that are poor because their stupid (not poor because life crapped on them) and are signing up because they can't do the math - which means people that can't afford health insurance are getting it at the expense of everything else.

Calling Obamacare an achievement is like saying "I should be on the honor roll with my 0.9 GPA!"

I still find it funny that you aren't separating the loss of the personal policy from my work policy.... typical democrat pulling fiction from facts and generalizing what I'm saying to make their point.

Please, fail harder.

The line of thinking that more health insurance coverage drives up prices is easily dismissed. Among Western nations the US has the least coverage and the highest prices for healthcare.

The Germans in particular have enormous coverage and much lower prices. Lower prices although they obey to all trademark and patents that American companies set on medication.

High prices for heathcare have all kinds of reasons but increased insurance coverage is not one. You can easily track it to companies raising prices on medication, prices for procedures going up, lease cost for the hospitals going up. The reasons are many and complex.

Your idea that you pay more for your insurance because they forced some fat white trash in is also going against what you said earlier. If people cherry-pick and get health insurance when their health goes bad those people were already in the insurance before you came along.

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Germany has higher unemployment than the US and lots and lots of people who play havoc with their health. They also finance cheap health insurance for students and the like, and all those refugees get healthcare, too.

Still, health cost is cheaper there. Both for individual procedures, and for per-person yearly spending.

You still didn't explain why you think that more coverage leads to higher premiums when the German experience is the opposite. They do not have state-financed healthcare, they have insurance companies (with strong regulation, though).

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19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's because you're missing that the real info is why the coverage number is what it is (health care being compulsory) that's the problem, and the coverage number itself is nothing more than a red herring.  Health care being compulsory is what's driving up the premiums (through greed) in addition to covering a bunch of people that were not able to get health care initially (an increase in risk on the insurer).

You seem to be coming across as someone on the sidelines that doesn't understand how all this stuff works, because this is like the third or fourth time I've pointed out that health insurance being compulsory is the problem.

And health insurance =/= health care.  A government health care program could be ran without the concept of insurance anywhere in the picture.

I seem to have a lot more background in other healthcare systems than you. Other than saying "xyz is the problem" without stating anything specific you didn't contribute anything.

The least you could do is look how much of the increase in insurance cost is actually ending up in their pockets, as opposed to increased spending. Increased spending due to more expensive care per person. Or due to some new people costing more on average than the previous people. Those are publically  tradeded companies, the information is available.

In any case as long as Americans tolerate that actual medical cost skyrockets without end, and much more so than in any other country, that whole discussion about how to distribute the load is the actual red herring.

People like you tend not to understand how expensive even routine treatments are here. Not having health insurance is dumb. Unless you have hundreds of thousand of dollars loose cash around.

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11 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

Canada is very "WHITE".

try heading south...  or do you have something against Mexicans?

...the hypocrisy is almost as endless as all the recent salty tears.

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

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42 minutes ago, Doro said:

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

Many would disagree. Especially in Quebec. 

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Since the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed, Democrats have lost net (approx.): 12 Senators, 65 House of Representative seats, 11 Governorships, 900+ state legislators, and 12 states have gone to 1 party control & now, the Presidency.

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34 minutes ago, FundinStrongarm said:

Since the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) was passed, Democrats have lost net (approx.): 12 Senators, 65 House of Representative seats, 11 Governorships, 900+ state legislators, and 12 states have gone to 1 party control & now, the Presidency.

The U.S. needed a health care reform.  That isn't even debatable.  The Republicans fought the ACA every step of the way.  They demonized it (remember "death panels" lol), arguably, because it took the first black President to finally pass serious health reform in the country.  It needs work, yes.  But that takes cooperation from both sides--not an outright dismantling of the entire program that will cause millions of Americans to lose health coverage and costs billions of tax payer dollars to make happen. Both sides of the aisle have been blindly partisan and what you have listed above is the result.  

Plus, nearly half the country didn't even vote.  That is why we have the President elect we do now.

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4 hours ago, Doro said:

That reminds me of the whole thing with Brexit, where many extreme remainers started crying that they were going to move to Canada after the vote. Which made no sense, because Canada was also a nation out of the EU, so why go there? But, of course, it's because people are white and speak English. You'll never see any of these people say "that's it, I'm moving to the Congo!".

I heard many say Ireland, can't say I heard anyone say Canada? I have applied for an Irish passport, I qualify through grandparents, mostly just to beat queues at airports so I can still use the "in the EU queue"

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As far as the on-going debate you two are having over the ACA and it's struggling status.  When you define something as a basic/fundamental need with a legal bare minimum then turn around and let cost be driven in part or in whole by free market forces you are an idiot as you've just created a cluster fuck.  It is  either a basic service/requirement with a floor/ceiling price range, or a supply/demand driven market.  Doing both makes it a POS bit of legislation that won't ever work right.  And that's in an industry with fairly tight margins and limited fraud/waist issues, none of which can be ascribed to the US medical industry where a procedure in one locale would cost 1-10k while one county over the same procedure with the same specialist costs 20-60k.  We won't even go into drug pricing.

 

If the ACA had been implemented as a straight up entitlement system it could have worked relatively painlessly.  Or conversely actively implemented measures that addressed inflated cost drivers.  In either case it's future would be more assured.  As it's written?  probably not long for this world due to simple economic forces and basic human nature regardless of DC's efforts.  Insurance providers aren't pulling out of the market as a gimmick or fad.

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15 hours ago, Darmokk said:

Germany has higher unemployment than the US and lots and lots of people who play havoc with their health. They also finance cheap health insurance for students and the like, and all those refugees get healthcare, too.

Still, health cost is cheaper there. Both for individual procedures, and for per-person yearly spending.

You still didn't explain why you think that more coverage leads to higher premiums when the German experience is the opposite. They do not have state-financed healthcare, they have insurance companies (with strong regulation, though).

Dont many Germans get their health insurance via a non profit organisation, known as sickness funds.

Take  profit out of health care and it wi-ll be better for all users

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@ cossieuk in the early days of the ACA there were similar non-profits in the market.  However the simple economics of the state of the medical industry made it impossible for them to exist, so they don't'.  Now even for-profit providers are pulling out.  As long as vast tracts of the industry represent an avenue to print cash , no non-profit is going to have an easy time covering operating costs.  The one player in all this who actually has the bargaining power to limit costs chose not to use it, the federal  govt.

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3 hours ago, Laurinaohtar said:

I heard many say Ireland, can't say I heard anyone say Canada? I have applied for an Irish passport, I qualify through grandparents, mostly just to beat queues at airports so I can still use the "in the EU queue"

Oh you missed out on all the fun!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-result-brexit-moving-to-canada_uk_576d1798e4b08d2c56390720

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36730174

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/uk-eu-brexit-vote-move-to-canada-1.3651308

They're very passionate about a lot of things, those on the far left, but they just aren't keen to actually put it into practice.

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