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Woeg

First pass at class re-balancing going live

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Didn't even touch the one (unfinished) class that needs more work than any other.

Not surprised.  Amused at this point.  Beornings are one of the biggest scams in the history of online gaming.

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Yeah - I was disappointed by the lack of attention to beornings - but some of the other classes got a much needed lift imo 

Personally I don't mind the hunter changes (even though its my main) - I look forward to seeing how a red line guard does in Mordor

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I wonder if it's possible for a digital product to go fuck itself.  Fuck Turbine/SSG for essentially creating class warfare and fuck hunters.  

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Bleed tiering has been eliminated due to bugs and performance issues, in addition to not being adequate for landscape play.

Only in Lotro™. Just like the goold "old" days, when Turbine™ gave us Guardians a mounted combat skill that could be used to crash other clients.

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FWIW - at high levels - my guard  (115) is hitting harder than before in red line,  hunter (115) hitting about the same from what I was doing on Sunday (farming SoE from gray quests in  Minas Tirith and lvl 105 CoS)

 

I know world chat and the forums have a ton of blue hunters crying foul - but they appear to be new players who don't remember the days before the blue line nerf (whichever update that was) to make blue line op (imo).  It was fun but still op.

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2 hours ago, Woeg said:

FWIW - at high levels - my guard  (115) is hitting harder than before in red line,  hunter (115) hitting about the same from what I was doing on Sunday (farming SoE from gray quests in  Minas Tirith and lvl 105 CoS)

 

I know world chat and the forums have a ton of blue hunters crying foul - but they appear to be new players who don't remember the days before the blue line nerf (whichever update that was) to make blue line op (imo).  It was fun but still op.

Same here. Checked guard and hunter on level 115 instanced mobs. What is on forums is nonsensical noise. 

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1 hour ago, Jedy2 said:

Same here. Checked guard and hunter on level 115 instanced mobs. What is on forums is nonsensical noise. 

Yeah, I imagine there's far to many mithril crowned players with the reaction speed of a dead frog that are complaining because the game's too hard.

I also hold that same cabal of players responsible for the complete cluster that is LotRO today... because several of them worked actively to shut down the PvMP discussions (especially in suggestions) that were on the forums, and also helped to kill off raiding.  It's good to see some recovery... but if LotRO can't run as expected on 10 x64 without having to do hackery like installing DX9 onto Windows 10 (which is a wholly unsupported thing to do to Windows btw), I'm not going to be surprised if the technical issues kill the game in the end.

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2 hours ago, Jedy2 said:

What is on forums is nonsensical noise. 

It's likely those same people played before the class destruction with Trait Trees in Helm's Deep, and if they're still sticking around after that act of developer seppuku then it's definitely all nonsense over there. This is a drop in the ocean compared to what happened then.

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53 minutes ago, Doro said:

It's likely those same people played before the class destruction with Trait Trees in Helm's Deep, and if they're still sticking around after that act of developer seppuku then it's definitely all nonsense over there. This is a drop in the ocean compared to what happened then.

They could always pull a hat out of a rabbit and manage to make a decently balanced game instead of a complete mess... but I highly doubt that.

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Cordovan's said on Twitch that the failure with the armour set bonuses, for example, are due to newly hired staff that doesn't really understand the game mechanics. (yikes!!!)

About guard dps; they are now freaking monsters in comparison to what they used to be. I've predicted swarms of twankers and champs in the Moors (and seen quite a few already the day after the update came live)

My little guard doesn't have a dps set, just 2 2 slotted swapsies blingies with phys mastery on, and she did a hammer down of 102k. Whirling retaliation of 40+k.  We should make a guardian raid and see what we can do :)

Before you start crying "NERF" - while in Red I did pull half of Anglaich as usual in Blue and... died... :)
 

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I have no idea if guards got nerfed or buffed in this update, but they're currently godmode. I've been messing around in Moors recently to see how bad the current state is, and I'm constantly surprised at it all. Playing a defiler with full buffs and all the heals on me, a single guard was able to kill me within around 4 seconds. And this happened multiple times. Even when I was playing, a champ could never out-DPS a defilers heals, and killing them 1v1 would require a survival build.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

I have no idea if guards got nerfed or buffed in this update, but they're currently godmode. I've been messing around in Moors recently to see how bad the current state is, and I'm constantly surprised at it all. Playing a defiler with full buffs and all the heals on me, a single guard was able to kill me within around 4 seconds. And this happened multiple times. Even when I was playing, a champ could never out-DPS a defilers heals, and killing them 1v1 would require a survival build.

According to some on the forums red guard is out dpsing rks.

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1 minute ago, Amenhir said:

According to some on the forums red guard is out dpsing rks.

I really don't doubt it. This guard hit me for a 60k crit. The highest I saw from any hunters or RKs was 50k.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

I have no idea if guards got nerfed or buffed in this update, but they're currently godmode. I've been messing around in Moors recently to see how bad the current state is, and I'm constantly surprised at it all. Playing a defiler with full buffs and all the heals on me, a single guard was able to kill me within around 4 seconds. And this happened multiple times. Even when I was playing, a champ could never out-DPS a defilers heals, and killing them 1v1 would require a survival build.

Due to various reasons (CoS second boss etc...) our kin minstrels tend to have well over 80K Morale (Mine well over 90K). That does not help them much in duels, where they get stunned and one-shotted for over 100K by their friendly, next door guardians. (Insert many happy emotes). Honestly - I doubt we will get raid places as DPS monsters. I used to solo "Keys of Harlots" ;) as red guard before the red nerf, now The DPS seems a bit much. I don't really think it matters, and if Guardian raids become common, they will nerf us again. I may not be objective here. ;) 

Not impressed by Minstrel nerf - they seemed to have swapped one kind of stupid (Bolster) for another (Chord of Salvation 70K+) and no real AEO heals. Shrug. 

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4 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

Due to various reasons (CoS second boss etc...) our kin minstrels tend to have well over 80K Morale (Mine well over 90K). That does not help them much in duels, where they get stunned and one-shotted for over 100K by their friendly, next door guardians. (Insert many happy emotes). Honestly - I doubt we will get raid places as DPS monsters. I used to solo "Keys of Harlots" ;) as red guard before the red nerf, now The DPS seems a bit much. I don't really think it matters, and if Guardian raids become common, they will nerf us again. I may not be objective here. ;) 

Not impressed by Minstrel nerf - they seemed to have swapped one kind of stupid (Bolster) for another (Chord of Salvation 70K+) and no real AEO heals. Shrug. 

They don't know what the fuck they're doing.  I'm not even sure they ever did.  The game is way too old to be trying to reinvent things.  They should have pushed out content, made performance fixes, and allowed classes to continue on the same trajectory.  People enjoy getting the most out of their toons.  People love killing mobs with one shot.  People that say otherwise are either lying to themselves or they're butt hurt that common plebs could put up good dps numbers.

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7 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

They don't know what the fuck they're doing.  I'm not even sure they ever did.  The game is way too old to be trying to reinvent things.  They should have pushed out content, made performance fixes, and allowed classes to continue on the same trajectory.  People enjoy getting the most out of their toons.  People love killing mobs with one shot.  People that say otherwise are either lying to themselves or they're butt hurt that common plebs could put up good dps numbers.

As mainly a Guardian player of 11 years I think I one-shotted a squirrel on level. Once. ;) So it's kind of fun, but I don't expect too much of it, or for it to last.  

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20 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

As mainly a Guardian player of 11 years I think I one-shotted a squirrel on level. Once. ;) So it's kind of fun, but I don't expect too much of it, or for it to last.  

I think they continue to make adjustments with the old trait system in mind.  i hear the argument that RKs shouldn't be top tier dps because they can heal in red line.  Sure I can spam prelude for those 100 morale a tick heals, if I'm running away.  They removed the ability for classes to be flexible by limiting the potency or outright removing certain skills when you choose a particular trait line.  I realize that hunters are pretty much dps only but that doesn't mean other classes shouldn't have viable dps when they have to give up all that utility to do so.  Hunters and wardens are by far the most obnoxious players in the game.  It's always "Buff me at the expense of others."

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38 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

They removed the ability for classes to be flexible by limiting the potency or outright removing certain skills when you choose a particular trait line.

This still irritates me, even after all this time. I hated logging in and finding my character had been massively gimped, all of my rotations were gone, and any hope of customisation was gone. Plus, every time I tried to swap trait lines, all the skills would disappear and get replaced with other versions, which were never in the place I left them before or had a completely different icon/use now. At least before, you could trait what you liked and leave the skills you couldn't use on your quickslots but greyed out. Their war on supposed skill bloat was their most retarded and most lazy "fix" they've ever done on the game.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

This still irritates me, even after all this time. I hated logging in and finding my character had been massively gimped, all of my rotations were gone, and any hope of customisation was gone. Plus, every time I tried to swap trait lines, all the skills would disappear and get replaced with other versions, which were never in the place I left them before or had a completely different icon/use now. At least before, you could trait what you liked and leave the skills you couldn't use on your quickslots but greyed out. Their war on supposed skill bloat was their most retarded and most lazy "fix" they've ever done on the game.

Game studios are just like web developers.  Take any website you frequent and pay attention to how many times they totally change the interface.  Buttons aren't where they were, options are hidden under a sea of links and tabs.  It's not because the changes were necessary, it's because it justifies their job.  I don't know if the old trait system was sustainable but I do know that simply having to "add points" made it incredibly easy for them.  I think that was the main motivation behind the change, because it certainly wasn't based on player feedback.

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Ironically, that old trait system is basically what FFXIV has for their classes, and it's actually amazing at downscaling classes.  Granted, it's a lot more feasible to have one char roll all the classes, unlike most other MMOs.

The problem LotRO had was that they never integrated all of the stats from 1-cap, but always had that point at Dunland where the uncapped system began.

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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Ironically, that old trait system is basically what FFXIV has for their classes, and it's actually amazing at downscaling classes. 

I trust you on that, can also add that downscaling in ESO is near-perfect, I did not complain about that in GW2 either. 

I howl with pain at the thought of the humongous amount of superb content LOTRO would have, if it was properly "downscalable". 

All those raids... They were really good on level, some just wonderful... And now? Only The Abyss, with the raid before that, The Throne, barely worth the effort of bending down on T2C for some barter coins... What a waste... 

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On 6/7/2018 at 7:47 AM, Jedy2 said:

I howl with pain at the thought of the humongous amount of superb content LOTRO would have, if it was properly "downscalable". 

Hashtag me too. I still think the old content (before Turbine started revamps and cutting up all the raids into weak scalable stuff) was the best I've found in an MMO. I'd say I would even push it to include Moria, and maybe Mirkwood just for the skirmishes. The problem they had with trying to scale those was that they did it for the grind and tried to tie loot behind it (like that Annuminas nonsense). They lost track of people playing for the fun of it.

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My biggest beef with Annuminas was always that one quest that was mislabeled as solo (can't recall the name, but it's the one that rewards the Evendim helmet/hat set piece).

Signature mobs there respawn nearly instantly even to this day, making burglar the only class that can really solo it on level (not even tanks can turtle through the damage there at that level).  Yet not a single developer/coder could be bothered to change the icon to "small fellowship".

On its own, not that big a deal.  But one of a thousand cuts that has bled LOTRO dry, and a testament to how few fucks Turbine/SSG actually give about the quality of their product.

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18 hours ago, Doro said:

Hashtag me too. I still think the old content (before Turbine started revamps and cutting up all the raids into weak scalable stuff) was the best I've found in an MMO. I'd say I would even push it to include Moria, and maybe Mirkwood just for the skirmishes. The problem they had with trying to scale those was that they did it for the grind and tried to tie loot behind it (like that Annuminas nonsense). They lost track of people playing for the fun of it.

Moria (including DN) was actually really well done on level, and content I loved to pieces.  The only downside with Mirkwood was that it should have stayed at 60, as jumping to 65 for that level kinda threw off the MoM instance balance a bit.

That and we were already on the downward spiral by that point, just most of us really didn't see it at the time =/

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