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psalm8818

Vastin Takes a Dig at Dissatisfied Customers

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https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?664684-Blue-Line-Hunter-needs-to-be-fixed-urgently!-Listen-to-the-paying-customers&p=7844037#post7844037

And of course, Cordovan doing what he always does, label negative feedback and dissatisfaction as "extensive insults and harassment".

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?664534-Blue-line-hunter-survey&p=7843563#post7843563

Par for the course for LOTRO staff; ignoring feedback and closing threads in order to censor concerns and refute dissatisfaction in future.

I sincerely hope this is the final nail that buries this gaming studio.  Middle Earth deserves better.

It also deserves a dev team who actually play the damned game they're developing more than an hour a week for a webcast...

You cannot double down on defending poor choices and taking shots at the people who are literally keeping you employed by a gaming studio already on thin ice.  It's just incredibly stupid.  They DESERVE to fail, and that's all there is to it.

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I read Vaist, and apart from the "reknowned" word, there is nothing I would disagree with, or consider offensive towards anyone. 

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40 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

I read Vaist, and apart from the "reknowned" word, there is nothing I would disagree with, or consider offensive towards anyone. 

And you got baited by the resident SJW troll here... 

Vastin's post is fine, and if someone is reading offense into it, they're just a thinned skinned moron.

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13 hours ago, Jedy2 said:

I read Vaist, and apart from the "reknowned" word, there is nothing I would disagree with, or consider offensive towards anyone. 

Maybe actually read the threads, and get a feel for the level of utter dissatisfaction 80% of the paying customers have at the moment, and watch as their dissatisfaction is passively dismissed by SSG staff members who don't even play the game (and who certainly don't play blue hunters).

That's....not how you treat your clientele.  At least if you want to stay in business.  Vastin is essentially telling customers, some of which have been playing hunters...the most popular class in the game...since 2007, "it's fine l2p".

It's a bold move, Cotton.  Let's see if it pays off for them.....

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13 hours ago, Jedy2 said:

I read Vaist, and apart from the "reknowned" word, there is nothing I would disagree with, or consider offensive towards anyone. 

Yeah, it's not necessarily offensive or the like, but I can definitely see some points this Vastin fella's said that have more between the lines than at first glance.

The first half of the post is basically him saying "I made all the changes without really knowing what I was doing but just messed around for a bit on a Hunter and worked from there". Sloppy, but you can't expect much else if these devs don't play the game like actual players do. They're fumbling in the dark like a blind choirboy in a dark confessional.

However, there's this part:

"I encourage people to simply play the game, try out builds and new play patterns and see what works best for you - or ask others for advice. If I know anything about our more experienced players, it is that they are more than willing to give you any and all the advice you might need to get your build working effectively. I tried to balance the skills to a point where several different builds should be functionally effective within the hunter trees, so there should be plenty of space there to explore."

To me, that sounds a lot like telling people to not complain and deal with it. If you're not a fan of the new build or rotations, then you're just not an experienced player and need to be asking for help, or you just not playing or exploring the build properly. A sentiment he follows up in the next sentence where he says:

"The Hunter class clearly remains powerful enough that even novice or casual players should be able to manage even when employing simplified skill patterns or sub optimal gearing & builds."

No one should be complaining unless they're below the level of novice or casual and using less than simple skill patterns and terrible builds, because hunters are fine. He says in the line after that he's fine for suggestions, but they're not rolling anything back so anyone that wants it can go screw. They're just noobs anyway, right? Not enough experimenting and good gear, that's their problem. Sounds like the kind of dev that thinks his half-assed decisions on a class outweigh all those people who have perfected certain builds. Those same people he's dismissing and needing their hand held to work out the new changes.

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I don't know about the politics of dealing with paying customers here. Factually he's correct. My Blue Hunter is stuttering a bit, but his DPS is now higher than my fellow RKs who used to outscore him by LOADS. RKs - yes those could (and do) curse and swear. I reserve judgment on New, Silly Chord Blue Minstrel. Blue Hunter rage is a joke. *

 

*Caveat - I don't raid on Hunter (too many of those in kin ;) ) - just use him for dailies, instances, gathering tasks etc... Still - see only minimal drop in efficiency. 

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An obvious response. He wont admit being influenced by Sipp & Joe's Co.

Any case, any class dirty move under the balance or whatever excuse, is to make people grind or pay more cash to rebuild their LI's and gear. 

 

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My hunter is fine and I am pretty casual with my approach to the game - those blue line hunters need to try a little bit more - sorry that their 3+ year old rotations don't work anymore but they need to get over it - classes change over time and my hunter at 115 is nothing like my hunter at 50, or 65 or whatever

Personally it is still my main and I am having a blast with it - ymmv obviously

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People are pissy because they abandoned their red LIs or got rid of them all together in favor of blue line.  There are also the people that picked up hunter when they found out it was the fotm and now they're pissed they have to even bother with new LIs.  That's not SSGs fault.  I gave up on the game but out of morbid curiosity I keep relatively up to date on changes, or when they finally turn off the servers.

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12 hours ago, Amenhir said:

That's not SSGs fault.

Well, yeah it is.

Turbine/SSG made LOTRO too grindy in order to squeeze $$$ out of impulsive shills.  That's why no one plays it any more.  At least 80% of the few remaining players (and more importantly, the remaining subscribers) have a hunter (which is the most popular class in the game, such as it is).  Those hunters were given a shiny new toy called the revamped blue line, which they latched onto and found enjoyment in a platform where there simply isn't much enjoyment to be had anymore.  Then the toy was taken away from them and broken.  Then it was given back to them and they were told "deal with it, it's fine" by the man who broke it.  They're not going to bother with that toy anymore.  In fact, they're going to stop loving the caretakers, and are probably going to find a new game to play.

And that's clearly what SSG wants.  So be it.  I eagerly anticipate the day when LOTRO is shut down, so that the IP can be secured by a competent gaming studio who actually cares about its players' enjoyment of the product, and less about much weed they can inhale before a webcast.

I also eagerly anticipate the day Cordovan is compelled to employ his horrible customer relations skills in a more worthy setting; namely asking customers if they would like fries with their burgers...

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On 6/9/2018 at 3:24 PM, Doro said:

However, there's this part:

"I encourage people to simply play the game, try out builds and new play patterns and see what works best for you - or ask others for advice. If I know anything about our more experienced players, it is that they are more than willing to give you any and all the advice you might need to get your build working effectively. I tried to balance the skills to a point where several different builds should be functionally effective within the hunter trees, so there should be plenty of space there to explore."

To me, that sounds a lot like telling people to not complain and deal with it. If you're not a fan of the new build or rotations, then you're just not an experienced player and need to be asking for help, or you just not playing or exploring the build properly. A sentiment he follows up in the next sentence where he says:

I dunno, I read that more as "please go test it and let me know how it plays, not just flame it because things changed."

Granted, I'm used to dealing with Microsoft Azure rate of change - which can be sometimes change quite dramatically in the span of week.

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20 hours ago, psalm8818 said:

 

And that's clearly what SSG wants.  So be it.  I eagerly anticipate the day when LOTRO is shut down, so that the IP can be secured by a competent gaming studio who actually cares about its players' enjoyment of the product, and less about much weed they can inhale before a webcast.

 

Do you really think there will be another MMO based around LOTR.

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2 hours ago, cossieuk said:

Do you really think there will be another MMO based around LOTR.

Beats me.  There certainly could be.  Middle Earth has a huge fanbase now (certainly far more than before Jackson's films).  But as long as SSG (and, by extension, Theybreak Games) has a stranglehold on the IP, there's no chance.

A LOTR TV series is under production.  I don't know if it will be any good, and I don't know if it will renew interest in the IP among gamers.  But it's the best chance in years.

LOTRO began its life as "Middle Earth Online", announced during the hype of the LOTR films.  Unfortunately, Turbine Studios are idiots, and it took them nearly half a decade to release a product (which was actually a good game when it was released.....before Warner Brothers and F2Pers got their hands on it....).  They missed the hype.

They missed the hype again during the Hobbit films (one of which featured an advertisement for WORLD OF WARCRAFT amid its trailers, rather than LOTRO), with just a pandering nod toward the Lonely Mountain.  It didn't work.

And they'll miss the hype again with this TV series, because they're idiots.  That's why my fingers are crossed that the sanctions on the Russian oligarch(s) who calls the shots at Theybreak Games ends up closing down SSG and LOTRO once and for all.

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3 hours ago, cossieuk said:

Do you really think there will be another MMO based around LOTR.

No, LotR has slipped from the general public consciousness...

So unless there's another TV series that brings it back (or another movie going over stuff from the Silmarillion), LotR is going to return to being a niche thing - so here's to hoping https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/arts/television/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon.html helps bring the franchise back from the brink.

At least LotR hasn't been Star Wars'd.

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On 6/10/2018 at 3:21 PM, psalm8818 said:

Well, yeah it is.

 

Nah, not really.  They can be blamed for a lot of stuff but people destroying their LIs because they don't feel it's needed isn't one of them.  I hardly used red line or blue line on my champ, but I still had LIs, just in case.

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3 hours ago, Amenhir said:

Nah, not really.  They can be blamed for a lot of stuff but people destroying their LIs because they don't feel it's needed isn't one of them.  I hardly used red line or blue line on my champ, but I still had LIs, just in case.

It's not a question of destroying them, it's a question of there not being enough hours in a day to farm and grind LIs for three different specs in order to prepare for whatever bullshit the devs throw at players with each new update.  Even the fanbois are getting tired of that, and they are jumping ship.

No one should be forced to buy an entire new wardrobe when people who don't even play the game make fundamental changes to it.  That drives paying customers away to other games, which is precisely what has been happening since LI's were introduced. 

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15 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

No, LotR has slipped from the general public consciousness...

So unless there's another TV series that brings it back (or another movie going over stuff from the Silmarillion), LotR is going to return to being a niche thing - so here's to hoping https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/arts/television/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon.html helps bring the franchise back from the brink.

At least LotR hasn't been Star Wars'd.

You haven't heard that Amazon is developing a LOTR series? From what has been reported (and I really haven't been following the news), it will not be set in the "present" of the books, but it will follow Aragorn's adventures in the past.

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1 hour ago, Talisman said:

You haven't heard that Amazon is developing a LOTR series?

**Looks at link***

16 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

so here's to hoping https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/13/arts/television/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon.html helps bring the franchise back from the brink.

Oh no, not at all....

1 hour ago, Talisman said:

From what has been reported (and I really haven't been following the news), it will not be set in the "present" of the books, but it will follow Aragorn's adventures in the past.

Yeah, I like that premise as you don't want to focus everything after an "ending" especially if you don't have much to build off of.  Going to an earlier part in the timeline only makes sense, especially if Amazon can build interest in earlier ages.

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I think the best chance of a new game will come once Christopher Tolkien dies and then the rights for the first and second age would be available.  This could open up some more of the world and gives developers a lot of space to work.  For me the second age offer the most opportunists as I feel there is less written about that then the first or third age.

However I dont see a new MMO, more likely more games like Shadow of Mordor.

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1 hour ago, cossieuk said:

I think the best chance of a new game will come once Christopher Tolkien dies and then the rights for the first and second age would be available.  This could open up some more of the world and gives developers a lot of space to work.  For me the second age offer the most opportunists as I feel there is less written about that then the first or third age.

However I dont see a new MMO, more likely more games like Shadow of Mordor.

IMO MMOs work best when you have a shadowy force that you're fighting against that you never really beat.

Given that Morgoth was defeated at the end of the first age... what was there to fight against for the second age?

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

IMO MMOs work best when you have a shadowy force that you're fighting against that you never really beat.

Given that Morgoth was defeated at the end of the first age... what was there to fight against for the second age?

Sauron was not the only Maiar to side with Morgoth, just come up with another who tries to take his place.

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8 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

Sauron was not the only Maiar to side with Morgoth, just come up with another who tries to take his place.

Not to mention any number of corrupt, powerhungry elvish and dwarvish kings, and especially mankind, who even in Tolkien's mind wrote the book on corrupt powerhunger (whereas Turbine/SSG has written the appendix....)

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Considering the new trend is to just copy Game of Thrones, I'm guessing they're going to try to make something dark (and I don't mean just because they'll cast a load of non-whites for white roles, which they inevitably do), full of political double-crossing (and probably a lot of political "progressiveness", which they inevitably do), and a lot of bad fantasy tropes.

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It's crystal clear Vastin is in over his head, and he doesn't know what he's doing.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?664830-22-2-2-Today-s-Patch-Lingering-Wound-Stealth-Nerf

He literally broke a skill, then hopped on the OF trying to defend it, contradicting himself in the process.

I know everyone is all like "Hey, at least he communicates with the community herp herp!"  What he NEEDS to do is actually play the game, learn the classes and specs he's fucking up even more than they already were, and stop trying to balance pve around pvmp (which is clearly the only thing anyone at Standing Stoned Games is actually doing in LOTRO).

Or better yet, keep being a total moron, dry up the remaining subscriber base, lose his job and go take some refresher courses at Devry Institute.....

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9 minutes ago, psalm8818 said:

and stop trying to balance pve around pvmp (which is clearly the only thing anyone at Standing Stoned Games is actually doing in LOTRO).

Not by what I've seen of the Ettens, it's in the worst state since the game's release. If any devs are looking at PvP at all, they're doing so with cataracts.

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