Jump to content
LOTROCommunity
Tanes

Petition: Please assign lore-appropriate names when forced renaming!

Recommended Posts

Hey guys.

I posted this on the official forums. I'm going to post it here, just in case the thread gets locked/removed.

---

During our time with Turbine, I have been pleased to see that tickets are being answered quicker and the role-playing and naming policies are being enforced. However, there is one issue I need to address.

I have reported a few names which have clearly been inappropriate, only to find that very character has been renamed something just as inappropriate. I have witnessed people in my gaming circle being renamed from something which is perfectly acceptable in the world of Tolkien (such as an Elf having a Quenya name), to a name that screams generic fantasy, which has clearly has no place within the game's setting.

I ask that the Game Masters please consider each rename carefully. It doesn't take much effort at all to assign someone a Tolkienesque name. Please, use common sense.

Feel free to sign if you agree, add to it if need be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I do support this in its intended spirit, the reality of the limitations Tolkien's languages present, when compared to the number of players, would make it difficult.

Do I believe that there are GM's put in charge of re-naming, who have incomplete (or non-existent) knowledge of the lore and ME naming conventions? I do.

Do I believe that that wasn't necessarily one of WB's/Turbine's hiring qualifications for GM's? <sigh> I do.

Are there only so many names that Sindarin, Quenya, Westron, Hobbitish, and the varied Edainic languages can produce? It's true.

Are a lot of the good names already taken? Unfortunate, but yes.

(Raedwulf, I have defended Turbine too much today. You have my leave to slap me with a lead-filled trout.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

{Fills Trout with lead. Lock & load (omgz! Did I jst sez dat! Eeek! L33t!! etc). Looks at trout; looks at Dal; throws trout away & offers hand to Dal}.

Whilst I respect Tanes' intention, I can only agree with Dal. Define Tolkienesque. I mean, really. Define clearly inappropriate, just as inappropriate, and generic fantasy. I mean, really...

If (and it's big if), a player is willing to put a little bit of effort in, it is still easily possible to come up with names that are entirely in keeping with an RP server. You can't have Ingobrand or Zigilbark any more. But I came up with them about 6 weeks ago for a couple of numpty "I'm bored" alts and they were available on Laurelin. OK, you can have them, just not on Laurelin... ;)

I'm willing to be reasonably tolerant over names. For very many people, words are not interesting, Tolkien's languages are not interesting, RP & immersion are not interesting. So long as they're willing to pay courtesy, lip-service, to the naming convention, I'm willing to cut slack. That really is the key element as far as I'm concerned. If you'll make a little effort, I don't mind that you're not very good with names. There are lots of things I'm not very good at, so why should I criticise in that one little area? And I like to play on a server with a population higher then 56... ;)

I'm good at coming up with names (I have elven , A/S & dwarven dictionaries available, and I'm something of an amateur philologist i.e. I love words!), but I'm not very good at coming up with duff names, whichever side of the naming "border" they're on. So I'm going to indulge in a bit of what would have been called "naming & shaming" on the old CM forums. Not that I'm necessarily trying to "shame" anyone.

Ignoring the obvious breaches (shortly after launch there was, briefly, a toon named pubichair running around. And no, don't bother trying to work out what sort of chair a pubi is... ;)), if I see Fartli Fartibum running around, I see someone with an obviously juvenile sense of humour who is not treating the server with respect. Bhurnt Tooacrisp... The first name I can tolerate, but the combination of first name & surname is obviously a piss-take (can't remember if I reported that one, but it was definitely one that made me wince). Fahfrd? I see someone who's read some Fantasy, but can't be bothered to make any effort; probably hasn't actually bothered to read the rules or suggestions.

So, yes in some senses, generic fantasy names do annoy me. But it's in instances where people haven't shown any imagination or thought where it bugs me. Continuing the Fritz Leiber theme, I'd report GreyMouser, for sure, maybe Graimauser too (too bloody obvious), but I'd smile at a man burglar from Rohan called Graegmus or Graegcatt (A/S "Grey mouse" or "Grey cat") as an intelligent salute in keeping with the server & milieu.

From the language point of view, what about Qyed, Loahere, Tarinas, Aikanaron, Aseeth, Culler, Notiane, Rhyaehar, Skiporin, or Tiermond? I won't claim to be a ME linguist, but I've probably more knowledge of the ME languages and of A/Saxon than most members here or those that were on the CM forums. I would struggle to justify any of the names at the start of this para in purely ME terms. Even a syllable. Tier is animal in German, but not in A/S; here (pronounced heer-ah) is army in A/S. They're not Tolkienesque names. Therefore they must be generic fantasy. But do they jar? I don't think so, and I've deliberately chosen every single one from the member list of my raid alliance. Several of them are kin-mates; Rhyaehar is {expletives deleted}, is Muer's original main alt.

In some respects, it is not a simple matter to denounce CM / GMs / Turbine as regards name changes. As, perhaps, one of the more "purist" members here, I can't agree with Tanes' petition. Not because the sentiment is necessarily wrong, but because it is poorly written, ambiguous, very open to subjective argument, and unrealistically narrow in its views & aims. There are a number of ways that you could break CM's naming protocol, but generic fantasy wasn't one of them. Trying to make it so is too restrictive, I think.

My real complaints about enforcement of naming rules are laxity & silence. On the latter, "we're not going to tell you what we've done" is stupid & counter-productive. I've already had this discussion once here with a CM staffer, so I shan't go over it again. As to laxity, I read somewhere; perhaps here, perhaps somewhere else; that unless there are 3 reports of a name within 24 hours, the GMs will do nothing. That's wrong. If a name is wrong, then it's wrong. It shouldn't be dependent on x number of tickets to get it changed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm all for having this in place. There's only one thing out of all of LotRO that doesn't stick to the lore and that's the names. Once we get that sorted we'll all be living in Middle-earth, with everthing perfectly in tune. Oh damn, I had sarcasm turned on.

Total waste of time having this in place. This game fell into the generic fantasy setting ages ago, there's no need to have name changes that stick to the lore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Turbine's rules are only appropriate for, and fully enforced on, RP servers; a type of server where you don't reside; what point is there in you turning up to sneer at the OP's comments?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since Turbine's rules are only appropriate for, and fully enforced on, RP servers; a type of server where you don't reside; what point is there in you turning up to sneer at the OP's comments?

Because I have this thing called freedom of speech. Suck it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a question for you guys: Is the name Thatsu offensive or inappropriate for the RP servers? Because I just logged in to find out my character got renamed.

I'm actually getting pissed off now. That name seemed fine to me and I've been playing and RPing/socializing with that for a long time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thatsu? Did you import your character from Asia?

No, I don't think it's an appropriate name for an RP server.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a Hobbit. They have funkier names like Frodo and Bilbo. And Daffodilly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah ... like Hamfast, Samweis, etc pp - but I don't remember any Hobbits with an Asian background like T(h)atsu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weird, I don't have any Asian associations with that name. How do you get that?

What do you think of a name like Ormaldana?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, they gave me Ormaldana as the replacement name. :P How's that any better than Thatsu?!

This new name sucks arse. It doesn't really incite me to play. :'(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's not meant to incite you to play, it's meant to incite you to pay - for a name change to your liking (and according to da rulez!) ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They should implement an option to only show names from characters that are RP-flagged. And they only should force renaming on RP-flagged chars. For that chars I would sign this petition.

Instead of renaming I would consider removing RP-Flag and lock it until character name changed (paying for it of course) and approved to be lore-conform by a GM.

Another advantage of this is that you can design regions in middle earth where only RP-flagged chars can enter into.

For all other chars everything should be fine except offensive or illegal naming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because I have this thing called freedom of speech. Suck it up.

Modbreak: removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, they gave me Ormaldana as the replacement name. :P How's that any better than Thatsu?!

This new name sucks arse. It doesn't really incite me to play. cry.gif

Technically, it uses Elvish roots and (very roughly) translates as "high gold smith (or maker)". This, of course, is a precise example of what I meant before. Essentially, the non-trained GM chose to lump together several M-E words (or used some sort of random generator that uses M-E words) and applied it to a Hobbit, very few of whom would ever bear an Elvish name.

Codemasters' use of rename tokens is a much better system, but, like every other good thing Codemasters did, Turbine chose to ignore such a useful thing. I'm sorry it happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, that name sounded to me like human or elvish. A Hobbit has a simpler name, more to the point usually. I'd have accepted alternatives that's somewhat close to my original name, short and sweet. Not this.. .. oh gosh. I feel depressed. Sure, it's just a game, but it's a character I had fun with and socialized with for a few months and then this.. I actually feel violated.

In any case, I have /signed that thread on the Laurelin forum in the LotRO forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, that name sounded to me like human or elvish. A Hobbit has a simpler name, more to the point usually. I'd have accepted alternatives that's somewhat close to my original name, short and sweet. Not this.. .. oh gosh. I feel depressed. Sure, it's just a game, but it's a character I had fun with and socialized with for a few months and then this.. I actually feel violated.

In any case, I have /signed that thread on the Laurelin forum in the LotRO forum.

I would cite the observation I made above in your post there or in a new one, while asking the simple question, "How is giving an Elvish name to a Hobbit during a rename lore-appropriate?" If the topic is not locked immediately, the answer, should it come, will be very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, that's why you can. I'll ask again, try to be polite this time. Since the petition is entirely moot to you, what point is there in you posting something quite unnecessarily sneering & sarcastic? You could have made your argument without, yet again, lowering the tone of the board.

My point is to give my opinion. Takes two brain cells to work that out from 'freedom of speech'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would cite the observation I made above in your post there or in a new one, while asking the simple question, "How is giving an Elvish name to a Hobbit during a rename lore-appropriate?" If the topic is not locked immediately, the answer, should it come, will be very interesting.

I've worked that question in there now. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would cite the observation I made above in your post there or in a new one, while asking the simple question, "How is giving an Elvish name to a Hobbit during a rename lore-appropriate?" If the topic is not locked immediately, the answer, should it come, will be very interesting.

I doubt there will be an answer ... i.e. an official one, more likely the fanboithreadkillersquad will appear (if it should come to their attention) and blast the thread to bits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×