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Savyl

Banned over reporting a gold spammer

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I've heard the reasoning, concerning military stationing, work assignment, etc., but the solution stands out as being the best to limit (or make it really difficult for) the gold spammers. As far as customers in those places go, there is a solution:

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Difficult. I'm sure Turbine also has a few customers who are living in those areas. Think of people who are stationed in Asia by their employer. Also, they would have to restrict all TOR exit nodes. Then there's the countless number of proxy servers available. When it comes to blocking IPs, there's the problem that not all IP block allocations are properly documented.

Sorry to be a spoilsport :P

CM did a pretty good job of it

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I've heard the reasoning, concerning military stationing, work assignment, etc., but the solution stands out as being the best to limit (or make it really difficult for) the gold spammers. As far as customers in those places go, there is a solution:

there is no need for such drastic measures.

turbine stopped the spam once before that gave us 3 or 4 years without them.

thats pretty good result in my book.

turbine did it once, they will scare them off again.

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Phone support was useless. They said that ingame did the ban and they could not see why I was banned but could see how long. He said that an ingame support senior staff member would eventually contact me when they got around to my ticket (2-4 business days)... he was rude so then I was rude and he hung up.

Then I called a second time.. and waited 15 minutes before someone finally answered. This last person was able to help me. He told me that the gm's were overwhelmed and just banned everyone, reporters and gold spammers both. So if someone copy/paste the offending text into a ticket.. for some reason the system also saw it as the reporter being the spammer. Makes no sense to me. Anyway... now unbanned.

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Phone support was useless. They said that ingame did the ban and they could not see why I was banned but could see how long. He said that an ingame support senior staff member would eventually contact me when they got around to my ticket (2-4 business days)... he was rude so then I was rude and he hung up.

Then I called a second time.. and waited 15 minutes before someone finally answered. This last person was able to help me. He told me that the gm's were overwhelmed and just banned everyone, reporters and gold spammers both. So if someone copy/paste the offending text into a ticket.. for some reason the system also saw it as the reporter being the spammer. Makes no sense to me. Anyway... now unbanned.

I shall preface this by saying that I am absolutely spoiled from a customer service perspective, largely because I used to give a rather fine quality of customer service, and I say that without either hubris or shame.

The fact that the phone support person was rude and lazy with you at all is something that would never have been allowed if it was me, not without severe repercussions. I have run into instances where a customer would be rude and unreasonable and I would have to end the call because nothing was being accomplished, but I was always expected to do it in a professional manner, explaining the reason I was doing so and escalating the matter to someone in higher authority. I was accountable for my behaviour, sense of courtesy and ability to approach challenges by-the-book during each call from beginning-to-end. If I could not properly account for myself, and if training could not correct it, the brightly-lit "EXIT" over the door would serve as my only guide.

The second person you spoke to handled the matter admirably. However, the fact that there is not an enforced consistency between the two responses points to ( a ) a flawed training method and/or ( b ) a flawed hiring process. Turbine needs to severely re-vamp its customer service at all levels, if they are going to have any chance of making it through the mounting challenges they are faced with.

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I just received an email apologizing for the ban. They said it was an error and compensated me with 500 TP's for my troubles.

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So the case of Savyl is substitutional for all the hundreds or thousands cases the support has to handle every day? Not that I'm saying, that everything is fine with the support. But all we can see are individual cases, even when there are lot of them. We don't see all the cases, that were handled well (because people usually don't storm forums to tell others "Hey, I had a problem, but the support solved it well"), and therefore we are barely in the position to make conclusions about the actions, Turbine has to take. However, my feelings tell me, that the support could be better, especially for foreigners. And Turbine has to get rid of one particular person, who is not capable of keeping his emotions (in some cases I'd even call it obsession) out of his job.

@Savyl

See? Problem solved, compensation received.

Welcome back in Middle Earth :)

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So the case of Savyl is substitutional for all the hundreds or thousands cases the support has to handle every day?

Perhaps not, but, to a customer, it is representative of the company. Customers tell other customers about either the good or bad service received, and woe to the company that has more of a reputation for bad. What this pointed out to me specifically was the lack of consistency and training among their associates. "Are they supposed to all be robots responding the same way?" Yes, even though not all situations are the same, the responses to those situations needs to be consistent.

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He told me that the gm's were overwhelmed and just banned everyone, reporters and gold spammers both. So if someone copy/paste the offending text into a ticket.. for some reason the system also saw it as the reporter being the spammer. Makes no sense to me. Anyway... now unbanned.

How is banning too many people, all of which have to hit support, going to help with support being overworked.

What would I give to get a peek into Turbine's office. It seems to be dilbert up to the max.

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I just received an email apologizing for the ban. They said it was an error and compensated me with 500 TP's for my troubles.

The apology should be mandatory, but the 500 TP is a very nice additional touch. Kudos Turbine. d;)b

(Good thing the community team isn't in charge of that.) :P

EDIT: Speaking of the community team, I wonder what you get if you are banned by one of them and win on appeal and get reinstated. Has it ever happened before? Do you even get an apology? Anyone know?

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@Savyl

See? Problem solved, compensation received.

Welcome back in Middle Earth :)

Yes and my son is already wanting to spend it on a new outfit for his charactor, lol.. poor mom doesn't get a chance.

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All she needs to do is use the I-spent-78-hours-in-labour-and-this-is-how-you-repay-me thingo, and she'll be apples. ;)

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Perhaps not, but, to a customer, it is representative of the company.

For me it's just an individual case, that cannot be representative for the entire company.

What this pointed out to me specifically was the lack of consistency and training among their associates.

You are still referring to an individual case out of countless other cases, of which you don't know anything about (umm, is that correct English?). You can't draw conclusions about the support of Turbine as whole based on an individual case. This would require an extensive survey, which involves a representative number of players and their experiences, or an unusual accumulation of cases similar to Savyl's case. If we'd hear of an huge amount of similar cases in a short time, we could be quite certain, that something is going terribly wrong at Turbine.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to defend Turbine. Actually I'm quite disappointed with Turbine too (e.g. because there are still no official foreign forums - and because of Sapience). I just don't want, that every report about such cases and respective discussions in this forum end in inadequate conclusions, no matter if they are attacking Turbine or not.

P.S.: English is not my mother tongue. Therefore I might not always find the right words to express, what I want to say. If you have the feeling, that I was offensive to you or anyone else, rest assured that this was not my attention.

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P.S.: English is not my mother tongue. Therefore I might not always find the right words to express, what I want to say. If you have the feeling, that I was offensive to you or anyone else, rest assured that this was not my attention.

Ouyay eakspay Englishway itequay ellway.

:*)

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For me it's just an individual case, that cannot be representative for the entire company.

And yet, from a customer's perspective, that one bad customer service rep may be the first and last person at that company that a customer may come in contact with. As a first point-of-contact, the ability to put the company's best face forward is paramount.

You are still referring to an individual case out of countless other cases, of which you don't know anything about (umm, is that correct English?). You can't draw conclusions about the support of Turbine as whole based on an individual case. This would require an extensive survey, which involves a representative number of players and their experiences, or an unusual accumulation of cases similar to Savyl's case. If we'd hear of an huge amount of similar cases in a short time, we could be quite certain, that something is going terribly wrong at Turbine.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to defend Turbine. Actually I'm quite disappointed with Turbine too (e.g. because there are still no official foreign forums - and because of Sapience). I just don't want, that every report about such cases and respective discussions in this forum end in inadequate conclusions, no matter if they are attacking Turbine or not.

Even if this is not the result of every customer contact, the interactions that Savyl had with two different customer service representatives does point out very simply from this example that Turbine has customer service people that need to be given either training or an ultimatum. I can speak to the job, because I've done the job under very strict controls, where a customer is retained or lost simply by that first-point-of-contact interaction. It's not an arbitrary judgment, it's a perceivable difference that Turbine is not hiding, whether in Savyl's example, the partiality of certain official community site managers or the disparity of in-game GM judgments.

(P.S. Don't worry about the English. You actually have a better grasp of it than most of the children in my state.)

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(P.S. Don't worry about the English. You actually have a better grasp of it than most of the children in my state.)

In my state (Florida) there are only two languages in existence (English and Spanish) and only one of them is acceptable.

Nuestros niños pobres.

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@Dalthalion

I think, that we are both right. The only problem is, that we are arguing from different perspectives - which I haven't noticed due to the language barrier. My impression was, that you've drawn your conclusion based only on Savy's story, but for you this is just another case in a long line of similar cases you have observed over months or even years. I did not take your background on that matter into consideration.

However, I think I'm right or at least not wrong, when you say, that one cannot give ultimate judgements about the support as a whole based on a single case (I'm only referring to the discussions in this forum), and your are right, when you say, that there are many similar cases that indicate, that the support has some serious flaws. And yes, the support has to handle every customer as first time customer, who might never come back, if he's not treated well.

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For me it's just an individual case, that cannot be representative for the entire company.

Bad press always outweighs good press. Which is fortunate or unfortunate depending on your point of view..

Some study somewhere (don't ask me for a link or anything) which I was told about in a customer service seminar many moons ago, showed that someone experiencing GOOD customer service will tell 3 or 4 other people about it. Someone, on the other hand, who experiences BAD customer service will tell 7-10 other people about it. I bet that second figure has risen a lot now that the internet is easily available to the masses.

You cannot buy good customer service and any responsible company (or any that want to still be in business in the future) makes damn sure their customer gets the best. Mistakes do happen of course, but that one piece of 'bad luck/poor training/bad day/hiring policy' and 4, 5, 6 or more examples of good customer service are offset by that one instance.

As for the Savyl case, I just hope the first call guy now realises his 'coat is on a shoogly peg' as we say in Scotland ;) (Translation - he is heading for his contract being terminated if he doesn't rapidly improve)

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I don't think many people mind CS people (in general) making mistakes, most people accept that mistakes are made now and then....

But how you recover from that mistake is usually absolutely vital to the customers impression of you and the word sorry should be used regularly and often when that mistake is recovered (imho)

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Concerning Turbine ingame cs in general.. based on my personal experience, it has been horrible. The phone support has been much better though. Due to unresolved issues, I submitted several tickets on the same subject because unlike CM, we cannot edit or reopen our ticket once it has been closed. Instead of answers or solutions, I was contacted by ingame support and warned if I submitted another ticket on the same subject that I would be banned. I could understand if I was spamming or abusing the system but I was not. I had submitted 3 tickets and the only kind of reply I usually get are auto responses...such as a redirect to the knowledge base, etc... not real answers. I filed an official complaint.. even contacted Turbine corporate office.. but no apologies, nothing.

I feel like we, as an EU lotro community have lost so much with this transition. It makes me sad. I try to remain optimistic but it's not easy. So yes, I very much miss CM.. imperfections and all. At least it felt like a real community and they seemed to care..I wish Turbine and CM would reconsider and forge a new contract but I doubt it will happen. sighs :-(

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Good service largely goes unnoticed. Poor service gets told to everyone who will listen. Sometimes even bad press is good press, but not in this case. Turbine isn't looking to swing a photo shoot for Playgirl as the next good-girl gone bad, or bucking for a cast position on Survivor.

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Instead of answers or solutions, I was contacted by ingame support and warned if I submitted another ticket on the same subject that I would be banned. I could understand if I was spamming or abusing the system but I was not. I had submitted 3 tickets and the only kind of reply I usually get are auto responses...such as a redirect to the knowledge base, etc... not real answers. I filed an official complaint.. even contacted Turbine corporate office.. but no apologies, nothing.

Oh yeah, I love those... they don't have time to properly answer your ticket, but once you manage to get yourself marked as possible ticket-spammer there's suddenly time to contact you. I had a similar one, ticket got a standard reply which really made no sense at all, so I made second ticket specifically asking clarification on the subject and mentioning that the previous answer didn't even remotely answer my question. That one got closed by the default answer that the question was already answered in the previous ticket and that one shouldn't make multiple tickets on the same subject. Talk about circular logic 7(8)7 ...

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