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Almagnus1

Doomsaying - When does math say the LotRO Population will hit zero?

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6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

I imagine a lot of it has to do with the sunk cost fallacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy ).
 

indeed, sunken cost fallacy is pretty much why most overstay any type of relationship that would have ended under healthy conditions.

the other is IP.  if this was just a generic fantasy game with no source legacy behind it...  this particular game would have died faster than Ashrons Call.  MUCH FASTER!

i doubt it would have made it to the first expansion.

6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

(although a studio pulling a Diablo Immortal on you will definitely help).

haven't had much time to delve into the BLIZZARD subject, or its cause AKA Activision...  but man the industry may finally get the needed kick to the balls that has been building for at least a decade now.

covering that shitshow though, is time i do not currently have.  fortunately, it is in many other good hands elsewhere.  ;)

that is the thing about being a behemoth...  when all those fans turn on you at the same time... the chunk they can tear off your sum parts, is pretty significant.    !

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21 hours ago, Doro said:

I'm now firmly in the belief that this undead game will never lose all its player base, because there's just too many oddballs out there with seemingly an endless supply of disposable income but nothing else going on in their life, so they keep on spending. Maybe it's some mental disorder along the lines of autism. It's the only explanation I can think of as to why they're so fucking weird.

I mean, look at this shit. Making threads to share fucking song lyrics where they make it about Lord of the Rings? Or this trash. What sort of NPC-level sort of humour is that? And even worse, people respond positively about it. Reeks of that mental fucker you see at bus stops with their belly out humming fucking anime intros out of key. Normally, people steer clear of the nutter, but on the forums? They congregate like outcast moths to a socially-inept flame.

These are the sorts of people who are still fuelling the game, and with people that out of touch with normality it's no longer surprising to me that SSG keeps the lights on.

Every time I see one of those posts I am reminded of a Louis CK bit, even though he likes to get caught jerking it.

 

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There is a Palantir leak where Cordovan was arguing back and forth with folks about class balance.  It was an interesting read (I won't post it here, but it shouldn't be hard to find).  

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4 hours ago, Papi said:

There is a Palantir leak where Cordovan was arguing back and forth with folks about class balance.  It was an interesting read (I won't post it here, but it shouldn't be hard to find).  

It's been deleted from Reddit, but a player of lotro with a youtube channel made a video.  You can pause said video and read what I assume is the entire exchange.  What I've concluded is that one of the requirements for being hired as CM of Lotro is to be a world class twat.

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This was a really strange one.   A day or two later a different reddit name said that they had been impersonated as the Palantir person and were trying to clear their name.  I recognized the original name from the OF, so if that's true, that's taking forum PvP to a whole new level.

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33 minutes ago, warspeech said:

This was a really strange one.   A day or two later a different reddit name said that they had been impersonated as the Palantir person and were trying to clear their name.  I recognized the original name from the OF, so if that's true, that's taking forum PvP to a whole new level.

You mean the person who posted the screenies from discord are trying to backpedal to cover their ass because someone informed them they could be in deep shit for breaking nda?

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36 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

You mean the person who posted the screenies from discord are trying to backpedal to cover their ass because someone informed them they could be in deep shit for breaking nda?

That's what it looked like at first, but since then the person who claimed to be impersonated is back posting on the OF, so that leads me to believe that there was more to it and that maybe he really was telling the truth.  Like I said, a strange one.

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5 minutes ago, warspeech said:

That's what it looked like at first, but since then the person who claimed to be impersonated is back posting on the OF, so that leads me to believe that there was more to it and that maybe he really was telling the truth.  Like I said, a strange one.

It's also interesting to point out that the person who posted the screenshots wasn't the only one arguing back and forth with Cordovan, it wasn't a solo protest, etc.  

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What gets me is the people like https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?671361-Will-we-get-one-big-server-per-region-EU-US&p=7916753#post7916753 :

Quote

I foresee another server merge, perhaps next year. Gladden is a tumbleweed prairie. I am guessing SSG is waiting for another server to become desolate enough to cut the cancer off to 2 remaining ones on US side. Landroval will survive due to RP affiliation and I'm guessing Brandywine with its most rubust server population. Which is ironic as Landroval is second least populated server after Gladden. 

Crickhollow and Arkenstone are too active yet to tamper with. If anything requires consolidating, Gladden and Landroval should be the ones to go, but of course that will not happen due to RP issues. Eventually the cuts will come.

As I foresaw happening with the server merges and the RP tags, trolls abusing RP naming policy, and people generally not liking the bat-shit crazy part of the community that are the RPers (which caused Laurelin to take on less population than it should have and ultimately lead to problems on Evernight becoming a European super-server), I see it happening all over again now.

SSG probably bet everything on the RPers being able to sustain LotRO, but they prolly never realized that you need the PvPers and the raiders for free publicity and also giving everyone else something to strive for, as you will always have a healthy RP population when there's enough other stuff for the RPers to do something else when it suits them... rather than logging to a different game and (possibly) not coming back.

The RP (and RE) server tags are a millstone for LotRO because they are going to have to support those servers even though they may not have the population needed to support themselves.

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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

SSG probably bet everything on the RPers being able to sustain LotRO, but they prolly never realized that you need the PvPers and the raiders for free publicity and also giving everyone else something to strive for, as you will always have a healthy RP population when there's enough other stuff for the RPers to do something else when it suits them... rather than logging to a different game and (possibly) not coming back.

The RP (and RE) server tags are a millstone for LotRO because they are going to have to support those servers even though they may not have the population needed to support themselves.

I still remember the your olde 'RP Sucks' ( or something along that line :p) thread. We had a good run in that one. Those days are long gone, RP has changed too along with the game. The scene is  alive and still thriving but on a much smaller scale.  We have seen a huge drop in traffic on our RP web portal in the last year in particular. people still RP of course but not on the scale they used to.  In the past you and I did not agree on many things but today I agree with your take . Funnily enough I decided to login game tonight and bumped in  RP/music event in Michel Delving, about 40 people , not too bad for a weeknight. Total number on Laurelin tonight was about 600 but the majority are not RPers. 

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3 minutes ago, Amorey said:

I still remember the your olde 'RP Sucks' ( or something along that line :p) thread. We had a good run in that one.

The two thing that basically pissed off the entire RP community against me was when I asked one of the Weatherstock people who were trying for a Guiness world record for more information on how they'd tally the population (as I was curious how they'd do it), and found out that they basically had used the record attempt as a marketing ploy then called them out on it.  The other was when I had the temerity to suggest that Laurelin get coverted from an RP server to an RE server and pointed out that it was basically already there and had the RPers come out in droves and attack for suggesting I do that.

The conclusion at that time is that the RPers are just bat-shit crazy.  So while you were having "fun", I was taken aback by the vitriol of that part of the community.

I want absolutely nothing to do with you, you toxic piece of shit.

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3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I want absolutely nothing to do with you, you toxic piece of shit.

Fair enough, thanks for letting me know  :)  

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9 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

The conclusion at that time is that the RPers are just bat-shit crazy.

Agreed. I can sort of see why people might find it fun to pretend to be something for a couple of hours as a joke, but to do it seriously for years and have it be such a big part of your life? No fucking clue. Standing around and making up shitty backstories as to why you're in the Prancing Pony spamming emotes or typing "in-character"... absolutely mental. Fits right in with the shit oddballs do that I mentioned earlier.

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Telling stories is an outlet for our imagination just like any creative medium - like music or painting. LOTRO gives players a unprecedented level of virtual immersion in a much-loved world and original lore.  

From my perspective, my RP characters are ones I like a lot and wish actually did exist within Middle-earth. RP is essentially like an interactive story, and for me It simply adds another dimension to the game. 

Roleplayers are not crazy or weird, they are just more creative and enjoy storytelling which is perfectly ok in a game inspired by a greatest storyteller.

Someone that have invested much time and creativity in their character's stories is most likely to stick around in game longer or return often. 

This very forum has a RP section since 2011 so there was a plan to make RPers welcome here, shame it never really worked out.

Anyway roleplayers are still making stories and singing songs in LOTRO and that makes them an important part in the game population although as I said earlier, the community is much smaller today. For as long as there are few RPers around numbers will most likely not hit absolute zero. 

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24 minutes ago, Amorey said:

Telling stories is an outlet for our imagination just like any creative medium - like music or painting. LOTRO gives players a unprecedented level of virtual immersion in a much-loved world and original lore.  

From my perspective, my RP characters are ones I like a lot and wish actually did exist within Middle-earth. RP is essentially like an interactive story, and for me It simply adds another dimension to the game. 

Roleplayers are not crazy or weird, they are just more creative and enjoy storytelling which is perfectly ok in a game inspired by a greatest storyteller.

Someone that have invested much time and creativity in their character's stories is most likely to stick around in game longer or return often. 

This very forum has a RP section since 2011 so there was a plan to make RPers welcome here, shame it never really worked out.

Anyway roleplayers are still making stories and singing songs in LOTRO and that makes them an important part in the game population although as I said earlier, the community is much smaller today. For as long as there are few RPers around numbers will most likely not hit absolute zero. 

It's like any microcosm, there are going to be toxic, elitist pricks.  The only thing I found strange about rping was the need to converse as if you were reading a novel.  Even if you were pretending to be a character in a story, why would you speak that way?  "Ahoy there weary traveler" Engelbert said with some trepidation.   That is just bizarre.  It also chapped my ass when a "musical group" would take a much lauded piece of music and then change the lyrics so it's about pie, loving pie, eating pie, doing weird things to pie.  We get it, hobbits like pie, but there is zero justification for taking something like Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah and making it song about pie loving.  

Now I didn't troll those people for doing that.  I simply stopped attending Weatherstock, or going to the PP.

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7 hours ago, Amorey said:

... they are just more creative...

Bullshit. The sort of uninspired nonsense made up by RPers is weak fanfic at best (probably one of the least creative areas possible). If your imagination requires somebody else's framework to develop in, it's not imagination.

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7 hours ago, Amenhir said:

It's like any microcosm, there are going to be toxic, elitist pricks.  The only thing I found strange about rping was the need to converse as if you were reading a novel.  Even if you were pretending to be a character in a story, why would you speak that way?  "Ahoy there weary traveler" Engelbert said with some trepidation.   That is just bizarre.  It also chapped my ass when a "musical group" would take a much lauded piece of music and then change the lyrics so it's about pie, loving pie, eating pie, doing weird things to pie.  We get it, hobbits like pie, but there is zero justification for taking something like Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah and making it song about pie loving.  

Now I didn't troll those people for doing that.  I simply stopped attending Weatherstock, or going to the PP.

Of course there are different kind of roleplayers and way to roleplay however elitist attitude is something I was always against , I  really do not like people that think they are better than others just because they roleplay, just like I don't like people that think they are better because they do not roleplay.

When I started playing LOTRO I was not a roleplayer, but I do enjoy storytelling , poetry and art so I used the game as a creative tool. Never attended or took part in Weatherstock , I dislike that kind of RP gatherings, but I know what you mean about songs about pie, my goodness I heard my fair share of those over the years on my server. I don't like the pie stereotype  associated with hobbits. or any stereotype for that matter

30 minutes ago, Doro said:

Bullshit. The sort of uninspired nonsense made up by RPers is weak fanfic at best (probably one of the least creative areas possible). If your imagination requires somebody else's framework to develop in, it's not imagination.

LOTRO provides a great number of RP tools , music system, emotes, cosmetics and so on, that is obviously done to encourage roleplay so people will use those tools and roleplay as they wish, some like that others don't. You call it 'bullshit'  I call it 'creativity.  There is plenty of rooms for everyone's point of view.  

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2 minutes ago, Amorey said:

LOTRO provides a great number of RP tools , music system, emotes, cosmetics and so on, that is obviously done to encourage roleplay so people will use those tools and roleplay as they wish, some like that others don't. You call it 'bullshit'  I call it 'creativity.  There is plenty of rooms for everyone's point of view.  

No, I'm saying it's bullshit that RPers are MORE creative. Their "creativity" is insipid.

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1 minute ago, Doro said:

No, I'm saying it's bullshit that RPers are MORE creative. Their "creativity" is insipid.

I do not share your take on this , not really a great surprise , but you are entitled to your opinion so fair enough :) 

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1 minute ago, Amorey said:

I do not share your take on this , not really a great surprise , but you are entitled to your opinion so fair enough :) 

What an absolutely fucking redundant thing to say.

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8 hours ago, Doro said:

What an absolutely fucking redundant thing to say.

Careful, don't think too much on this or you'll to stab your brain with a QTip.

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I want to take my Black Arrow out into the other regions and RP. If I could the howlers would rip out their vocal chords in objection. A BA band playing death metal, while howlers bash their heads into oblivion. BUT NOOO! So instead I RP in OOC knowing there is always freep spies reading about how I'll gut them and wear their intestines for a necklace.

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On 2/20/2019 at 1:49 PM, Almagnus1 said:

The conclusion at that time is that the RPers are just bat-shit crazy. 

"IF" role-players stick to the RP channel &/or /say and respect basic agency, i am content to ignore them.  there are actually RPers who are capable, but they are a rare breed.

i recall back in the days when Patience was Community Manager over on the official forums, there was a poster who i have long since forgotten the name, who wrote this Tom Bombadil story pre his settling down with Goldberry & i thought it was VERY well done.  but that was from a time when the Official Forums had an actual active posting population comprised of thousands of voices & actual conversations happened.

that has all but disappeared now since Sapience poisoned the well & now with Cordovan...  that guy is as useful as ass herpes.  you will never see stuff of that calibre again.

"IF" any role-players who do maintain a non annoying, or easily ignored presence still exist...  they have been utterly eclipsed by asshats & folk who will angrily send you ALL CAPS tells for having the audacity to run inside the prancing pony.

On 2/21/2019 at 12:12 AM, Doro said:

The sort of uninspired nonsense made up by RPers is weak fanfic at best (probably one of the least creative areas possible). If your imagination requires somebody else's framework to develop in, it's not imagination.

and then they post that shit server wide in /world subjecting everyone, regardless of location to that "E" list material.

or the folk who chose the most trafficked locations to line up their band to play...  on top of vaults, vendors, stables, etc.  never allowing for a person to chose to wander up too.  same goes for the posers in fashionable attire.  i shit you not, there was a couple back on old Nimrodel, near the bree stables positioned and posing together so that all incoming and outgoing traffic would see them...   for 3 weeks straight.  & that doesn't even get into the E-cyber in back rooms of various locations (mostly early game.)

so indeed there may be some non bat-shit crazy RPers out there, but in truth, they might as well not exist as the absolute bat-shit crazy is in full view. 

Laurelin is the worst server because of it.

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