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Altreg01

Has anybody seen this?

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there are several good threads on this forum that stand above and beyond the rest, but IMO, THIS:

https://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/3465-lotro-pvpersare-they-really-that-bad/

is the best & it all starts with Alywens first post:

https://lotrocommunity.com/forum/topic/3465-lotro-pvpersare-they-really-that-bad/?do=findComment&comment=112183

Alywens contributions and peek behind the scenes was OVERWHELMINGLY received with positivity and praise & it was confirmation for many of things we suspected, or perceived in part.   of all the threads in existence on these forums, the one i linked above MUST be marked to NEVER expire.  it is a treasure.

 

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2 hours ago, Doro said:

I have no idea how you missed it. I've pinned it in the General Discussions section now so that it's always there.

That was the same one from here? Yes I read that from top to bottom, my mind must be gettting mushy because parts of it I strictly do not remember. Man I feel like an idiot now. The party where there Hydts <sp> were brought up should have rung a bell 🤣

 

Edit: The color schemes of that forum are horrid, if I highlight it I see the first question is from you regarding PVP. Holy shit Im getting old

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I'm glad I started that thread, because it turned into something quite magnificent.

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This particular passage always stuck out to me. "But it was also its biggest downfall. We tried to do too much with too little, attempting the LOTRO console game, building a proprietary downloader (Propel), mock ups of a Harry Potter MMO to woo WB...all of which soaked up bodies and millions and came to nothing. To me IC was classic Turbine, even in the WB era."

The above mentality persists today....SSG, Turbine...doesn't matter what you call them.  Why the hell would I trust my money to a company (now published cough-owned-cough by Daybreak of all fucking people) with a complete lack of direction and leadership?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Papi said:

This particular passage always stuck out to me. "But it was also its biggest downfall. We tried to do too much with too little, attempting the LOTRO console game, building a proprietary downloader (Propel), mock ups of a Harry Potter MMO to woo WB...all of which soaked up bodies and millions and came to nothing. To me IC was classic Turbine, even in the WB era."

The above mentality persists today....SSG, Turbine...doesn't matter what you call them.  Why the hell would I trust my money to a company (now published cough-owned-cough by Daybreak of all fucking people) with a complete lack of direction and leadership?

 

 

Not defending Turbine or SSG but Warner is a company that likes to muck things up in all aspects.  Look at how poorly the DCEU is handled on filmand WB recutting films days before release.  A lot of those film had potential but Warner had to change things like they always do.  I think its a company glitch

 

Now with that said... their is zero reason for SSG to be screwing up this bad other than they don't give a shit

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40 minutes ago, TheKickman said:

Not defending Turbine or SSG but Warner is a company that likes to muck things up in all aspects. 

It's too easy to paint WB as the big, bad corporation that ruins everything.  Not saying they aren't at fault in other areas, but in regards to LOTRO...SSG has already gone public with the information that they never felt stifled creatively or economically by WB.  I'd wager that WB had a pretty much hands off approach to the game as long as it met it's targets.  This is/was a SSG/Turbine turd all the way (imo)

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

It's too easy to paint WB as the big, bad corporation that ruins everything.  Not saying they aren't at fault in other areas, but in regards to LOTRO...SSG has already gone public with the information that they never felt stifled creatively or economically by WB.  I'd wager that WB had a pretty much hands off approach to the game as long as it met it's targets.  This is/was a SSG/Turbine turd all the way (imo)

I think the assumption used to be that WB wanted Turbine due to the LotR ip, but after having gone back and read some things in that thread, it became clear that they couldn't have cared less.  If WB wanted the mmo rights then it would have been very easy to wait it out until Turbine went to the table to negotiate the option to renew and essentially price them out of contention.  When WB/Turbine divested itself of Lotro and it was announced DBG was taking over publishing a lot of people believed the Golden age of Lotro was finally going to arrive.  However, in reality, that's when the nickle and dime tactics would truly begin.

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4 hours ago, TheKickman said:

Now with that said... their is zero reason for SSG to be screwing up this bad other than they don't give a shit

My read is that SSG is critically understaffed and underworked on a product that is bleeding income.  That environment just causes errors and puts everyone in essentially a meat grinder as it's crunch time 100% of the time... rather than crunching occasionally (and even then, crunch time is usually a sign that management screwed up).

 

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12 hours ago, TheKickman said:

Now with that said... their is zero reason for SSG to be screwing up this bad other than they don't give a shit

this assumes the relationship between SSG & Daybreak isn't a toxic cesspool, because if that relationship is strained, you can bet that would be reason enough.

we know (NOT suspect) that Doctor Octothorpe was terminated at the beginning of December (12th.) 2018.  & whenever something like that happens, one is left wondering was that it?  and i do need to remind everyone of the fire sale they had from December 7th through the 16th called the "Legacy Bundle" for $199.99 USD:

https://www.lotro.com/en/LegacyBundle

so Daybreak terminated at least one SSG employee, right during a fundraising period...  not just fundraising at Lotro, but also at DDO.  in fact Daybreak did this funding package drive at every title in the entire studios portfolio.  Everquest, DCU Online, H1Z1, Planetside, etc. etc. etc.  yet Daybreak fired Doctor Octothorpe before the funding drive was even over @Lotro.  & Doctor Octothorpe was the only one we got wind of due to his twitter feed.


well there are 2 things i do NOT assume:

1.) Doctor Octothorpe was the only one let go.    &

2.) SSG & Daybreaks relationship is all roses & joy... 

an entire shit-show is entirely within the realm of possibility.  what fucking company fires a company tent pole mid funding drive?  Daybreak games has managed just that.

yet i am sure there are folk who assume i am jumping up and down with joy that Severlin may have also been terminated.  those people are frankly idiots who are DEAD WRONG.

whomever is tasked with writing both DDO's & Lotros annual letter, may find the most difficult part, is establishing a positive tone, when it is entirely likely that Daybreak striped all revenues above and beyond the most basic operations at all these studio games under their umbrella to fund the new Planetside Battle Royale game slated to launch this March. (or worse, clear their books of any trace of Columbus Novas money.)

it is a repeat of Infinite Crisis all over again.

and for those who can intellectually grasp what that means, my reasons for being pissed & acting like a bit of an attack dog, become crystal clear.

anyway Kick, there are actual reasons for all of this to be dovetailing downward & they aren't actually SSG's current tiny roster of employees.  i actually do STRONGLY suspect Daybreak is behind much of the current quagmire.

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2 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

i actually do STRONGLY suspect Daybreak is behind much of the current quagmire.

There is no doubt that with Daybreak came the loot-boxes as a primary source of revenue and the outlandish prices for the Mordor expansion pack.  The true test will be what/when/how the new LOTR MMORPG launches.  It doesn't have to do much right to shut down LOTRO for good, sadly.  But it's going to take another game to do it because I honestly think there are enough whales left in this game to keep it afloat for years--if only for the sake they can log into the game, play their flutes and ride their horse in a digital representation of Middle Earth.

 

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2 hours ago, Papi said:

There is no doubt that with Daybreak came the loot-boxes as a primary source of revenue and the outlandish prices for the Mordor expansion pack.  The true test will be what/when/how the new LOTR MMORPG launches.  It doesn't have to do much right to shut down LOTRO for good, sadly.  But it's going to take another game to do it because I honestly think there are enough whales left in this game to keep it afloat for years--if only for the sake they can log into the game, play their flutes and ride their horse in a digital representation of Middle Earth.

 

I agree for the most.  Unless that game becomes vaporware or is just incredibly bad.  The market won't be able to support two LotR mmos, especially when one is 15 years old.  Lotro will never truly lose all of it's paying players due to the advanced age of many of them.  If the new game is more action oriented like a lot of newer mmos have become it won't attract a 60 yr old whale.

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10 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

this assumes the relationship between SSG & Daybreak isn't a toxic cesspool, because if that relationship is strained, you can bet that would be reason enough.

we know (NOT suspect) that Doctor Octothorpe was terminated at the beginning of December (12th.) 2018.  & whenever something like that happens, one is left wondering was that it?  and i do need to remind everyone of the fire sale they had from December 7th through the 16th called the "Legacy Bundle" for $199.99 USD:

https://www.lotro.com/en/LegacyBundle

so Daybreak terminated at least one SSG employee, right during a fundraising period...  not just fundraising at Lotro, but also at DDO.  in fact Daybreak did this funding package drive at every title in the entire studios portfolio.  Everquest, DCU Online, H1Z1, Planetside, etc. etc. etc.  yet Daybreak fired Doctor Octothorpe before the funding drive was even over @Lotro.  & Doctor Octothorpe was the only one we got wind of due to his twitter feed.


well there are 2 things i do NOT assume:

1.) Doctor Octothorpe was the only one let go.    &

2.) SSG & Daybreaks relationship is all roses & joy... 

an entire shit-show is entirely within the realm of possibility.  what fucking company fires a company tent pole mid funding drive?  Daybreak games has managed just that.

yet i am sure there are folk who assume i am jumping up and down with joy that Severlin may have also been terminated.  those people are frankly idiots who are DEAD WRONG.

whomever is tasked with writing both DDO's & Lotros annual letter, may find the most difficult part, is establishing a positive tone, when it is entirely likely that Daybreak striped all revenues above and beyond the most basic operations at all these studio games under their umbrella to fund the new Planetside Battle Royale game slated to launch this March. (or worse, clear their books of any trace of Columbus Novas money.)

it is a repeat of Infinite Crisis all over again.

and for those who can intellectually grasp what that means, my reasons for being pissed & acting like a bit of an attack dog, become crystal clear.

anyway Kick, there are actual reasons for all of this to be dovetailing downward & they aren't actually SSG's current tiny roster of employees.  i actually do STRONGLY suspect Daybreak is behind much of the current quagmire.

Oh no doubt,  What I was getting at is that they know it is going to be a shitshow, they know they are under the crunch so why even bothering giving a shit when its gonna be messeed up anyway due to management failures.  I worked for a jcompany that did crunches like that and honestly, we didn't give a shit, why, because no matter how hard we did things, it was always wrong.  So we gave up caring.  Thats all I meant

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5 hours ago, Amenhir said:

I agree for the most.  Unless that game becomes vaporware or is just incredibly bad.  The market won't be able to support two LotR mmos, especially when one is 15 years old.  Lotro will never truly lose all of it's paying players due to the advanced age of many of them.  If the new game is more action oriented like a lot of newer mmos have become it won't attract a 60 yr old whale.

Amusingly, not all of the newer MMOs are action oriented (as FFXIV has a lot of movement involved, but it's also got a 2.5 second GCD).

In any case, the new LotR MMO would still attract enough of the younger audience that it'd prolly fatally wound LotRO as I think many of those whales aren't very nice people, and if you group a bunch of not nice people onto a server together... things will fall apart.

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Personally - I haven't found the whales to be any bigger douchebags in game that the average player (f2p or not) - in fact I find the attitude of the 10-40 year olds just as bad or worse or than those over 65

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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Amusingly, not all of the newer MMOs are action oriented (as FFXIV has a lot of movement involved, but it's also got a 2.5 second GCD).

In any case, the new LotR MMO would still attract enough of the younger audience that it'd prolly fatally wound LotRO as I think many of those whales aren't very nice people, and if you group a bunch of not nice people onto a server together... things will fall apart.

I'm referring to the fact that for a great many players of Lotro all combat can be done without ever moving the character.  Compared to lotro, ffxiv is a frenetic action rpg.

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1 hour ago, Amenhir said:

I'm referring to the fact that for a great many players of Lotro all combat can be done without ever moving the character.  Compared to lotro, ffxiv is a frenetic action rpg.

Right, I'm forgetting the average player has the reaction time of a dead fish.

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On 2/15/2019 at 1:07 AM, LasraelLarson said:

this assumes the relationship between SSG & Daybreak isn't a toxic cesspool, because if that relationship is strained, you can bet that would be reason enough.

we know (NOT suspect) that Doctor Octothorpe was terminated at the beginning of December (12th.) 2018.  & whenever something like that happens, one is left wondering was that it?  and i do need to remind everyone of the fire sale they had from December 7th through the 16th called the "Legacy Bundle" for $199.99 USD:

https://www.lotro.com/en/LegacyBundle

so Daybreak terminated at least one SSG employee, right during a fundraising period...  not just fundraising at Lotro, but also at DDO.  in fact Daybreak did this funding package drive at every title in the entire studios portfolio.  Everquest, DCU Online, H1Z1, Planetside, etc. etc. etc.  yet Daybreak fired Doctor Octothorpe before the funding drive was even over @Lotro.  & Doctor Octothorpe was the only one we got wind of due to his twitter feed.


well there are 2 things i do NOT assume:

1.) Doctor Octothorpe was the only one let go.    &

2.) SSG & Daybreaks relationship is all roses & joy... 

an entire shit-show is entirely within the realm of possibility.  what fucking company fires a company tent pole mid funding drive?  Daybreak games has managed just that.

yet i am sure there are folk who assume i am jumping up and down with joy that Severlin may have also been terminated.  those people are frankly idiots who are DEAD WRONG.

whomever is tasked with writing both DDO's & Lotros annual letter, may find the most difficult part, is establishing a positive tone, when it is entirely likely that Daybreak striped all revenues above and beyond the most basic operations at all these studio games under their umbrella to fund the new Planetside Battle Royale game slated to launch this March. (or worse, clear their books of any trace of Columbus Novas money.)

it is a repeat of Infinite Crisis all over again.

and for those who can intellectually grasp what that means, my reasons for being pissed & acting like a bit of an attack dog, become crystal clear.

anyway Kick, there are actual reasons for all of this to be dovetailing downward & they aren't actually SSG's current tiny roster of employees.  i actually do STRONGLY suspect Daybreak is behind much of the current quagmire.

Was Doctor OctoThorpe fired? This was never clear to me.

 

Is Severlin gone? Tbh this wouldn't hurt my feelings if he is. I saw him from the beginning of SSG emergence as nothing more than a person who was willing to step up and assume the figurehead semblance of a leader cause no one else had the balls. Basically he accepted it because he wanted to keep a job where he wasn't going to be a greenie doing grunt work elsewhere. I could just imagine. "Alright guys I'll do it." "I know i'm going to eat alot of shit, but along as you all keep me stocked with energy drinks, I'll be fine." "It'll be really cool."

The irony of the LotRO history repeating itself under every new banner. Keep the shitshow running to siphon the revenue off for other projects.

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33 minutes ago, Splay said:

Was Doctor OctoThorpe fired? This was never clear to me.

 

Is Severlin gone? Tbh this wouldn't hurt my feelings if he is. I saw him from the beginning of SSG emergence as nothing more than a person who was willing to step up and assume the figurehead semblance of a leader cause no one else had the balls. Basically he accepted it because he wanted to keep a job where he wasn't going to be a greenie doing grunt work elsewhere. I could just imagine. "Alright guys I'll do it." "I know i'm going to eat alot of shit, but along as you all keep me stocked with energy drinks, I'll be fine." "It'll be really cool."

The irony of the LotRO history repeating itself under every new banner. Keep the shitshow running to siphon the revenue off for other projects.

Perhaps that's why the Prod. letter is taking so long.  They needed extra time to get the new Exec Prod. caught up.  I doubt it though.  He's probably just hiding somewhere.

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I hope more time and thought is given to the Producer's Letter than was given to the Mordor trailer...

 

It's probably a question of understaffing.  That said, I'm sure any number of the 800 employees just let go by Blizzard would love to work for a z-list studio who can't even afford to turn the lights on...

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The hype (if we can honestly call it that) over the producer's letter is a bit funny.  For one, it shows just how starved the remaining community is for any semblance of hope for the future of the game.  It also shows how that same community can be so easily satiated with what will more than likely be 2 to 3 short paragraphs of PR bullshit.  It's quite interesting to observe.  As the saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

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21 hours ago, Splay said:

Was Doctor OctoThorpe fired? This was never clear to me.


Is Severlin gone?

RE: Octothorpe

whether they gave him a chance to resign, or a pink slip, from his parting twitter feed (which Doro archived) it seemed clear to me it was a shock & the departure not his choice.  that was my reading anyway.

RE: Severlin

his lack of visible activity since October last year & a missing producers letter... he might as well be.  whenever they push that out, i am sure the truth will be confirmed one way or the other.  

13 hours ago, Papi said:

The hype (if we can honestly call it that) over the producer's letter is a bit funny.  For one, it shows just how starved the remaining community is for any semblance of hope for the future of the game.  It also shows how that same community can be so easily satiated with what will more than likely be 2 to 3 short paragraphs of PR bullshit.  It's quite interesting to observe.  As the saying goes, beggars can't be choosers.

my "so-called" hype (not actually hyped) is two-fold.

1.)  to see if it introduces a new Lead, or confirm Severlin is a VERY behind the scenes Lead after all.

2.) post fundraising across the Daybreak studio, exactly what kind of a budget has Daybreak green-lit?  how will they frame everything, etc.

the latter may be difficult to come up with.  i heard Daybreak just delayed launch date of the new Battle-Royale type game for Planetside Arena until Summer:

https://www.planetsidearena.com/home

https://store.steampowered.com/app/987350/PlanetSide_Arena/

On 2/14/2019 at 10:07 PM, LasraelLarson said:

it is entirely likely that Daybreak striped all revenues above and beyond the most basic operations at all these studio games under their umbrella to fund the new Planetside Battle Royale game slated to launch this March. (or worse, clear their books of any trace of Columbus Novas money.)

it is a repeat of Infinite Crisis all over again.

addendum to the above:

cooking the books is something that could very well happen via paying down expenses associated with the new development.

so it is actually worse than Infinite Crisis.

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