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Talisman

Be Virtuous!

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Since the EP Letter thread has been hijacked...

This just in from Severlin:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?671463-Tinkering-With-Trait-Deeds-Removing-A-Way-To-Earn-LoTRO-Points&p=7918861#post7918861

I am going to answer some questions, but we all need to agree that the design might change - maybe drastically.

Currently here is the plan.

Again, THIS DESIGN MIGHT CHANGE - MAYBE DRASTICALLY.

The Virtue points that players can already earn in game will have a flat cost, say (as an example) 100 Virtue XP. Deeds that formally gave out a specific point will now give out (in this example) 100 Virtue points so the rate of gaining points in the same. In the new Virtue UI there will be an additional slot that you drag a Virtue to that will be used to determine which Virtue gets the XP. If the Virtue is at maximum value, or if there is no virtue slotted, then we have discussed several options -> the XP goes to the highest Virtue that is not at max - the XP goes to the lowest Virtue that is not at max - or even that the XP goes to your slotted Virtues in order from left to right and then rolls over in alphabetical order. These haven't been finalized yet, and cost to implement might play a role.

Anyway, you complete a deed and the 100 XP goes into the slotted Virtue which coincidentally adds exactly one rank. It means if you are running a high level character we can add quests at end game or even a Festival quest that gives some Virtue XP so you are not forced to go back to older content to progress the system. Maybe a substantial quest or deed gives the full 100, while a lighter Festival quest gives 20. It gives us a lot of freedom for expanding the system.

Points given out in the future may cost more than 100 XP depending on how we want to give out rewards. While the "grind" of future points might take longer, you would also be progressing by playing relevant content while earning loot and XP that is also relevant to your character.

Sev~

 

Clearly, this system can be monetized easily - they can just offer "virtue XP points" bundles in the store, like they do with promotion points for not-so-epic battles.

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As has been said as long ago as the introduction of the store, from now on the game will be designed around the store... except back then no one knew what would be eventually in it.

From a monetization presentation I learned that the goal is for it to not be the icing on the cake but to be mixed in with the entire dough. I think we can see that well, at the moment.

 

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Well, they already sell virtues at the Store, so no difference here really. What kind of surprises me is, will players be able to do whatever deed they want to do and increase their preferred virtues? If so, it actually would be easier to cap virtues. There's gotta be more than meets the eye.

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9 minutes ago, MusicMachine said:

Well, they already sell virtues at the Store, so no difference here really. What kind of surprises me is, will players be able to do whatever deed they want to do and increase their preferred virtues? If so, it actually would be easier to cap virtues. There's gotta be more than meets the eye.

Based on past experience with their crap I trust that they will be very capable of making the new virtues in the store very very different from what we see now ;)

As they design the game accordingly, the quantity of virtues may become both bottomless and an absolute necessity.

 

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1 hour ago, Tarantula said:

Based on past experience with their crap I trust that they will be very capable of making the new virtues in the store very very different from what we see now ;)

As they design the game accordingly, the quantity of virtues may become both bottomless and an absolute necessity.

 

You mean like a free virtue that is +100 to the awesomeness of your outfit, but the one in the store is +40,000 to tact mit?

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Here is how I see it panning out

  • Low level virtues will be easy to acquire because you know 100 virtue XP = 1 virtue level at low levels
  • As you gain levels and go past say Moria the virtue XP needed to level them grows whilst you remain only gaining that 100 XP for instance rank 6 of a virtue may cost 200XP than rank 7 will be 250XP
  • They will add virtue deed tomes in the store that will increase virtue XP as well as letting you simply tier them up
  • By the time you reach Gondor, virtues will cost roughly 2000 or more of the XP yet you still only gain 100 per completed deed
  • Of course there will be a massive "Ooops we did not think about that" where people who paid previously for virtues will have their virtue levels decreased as well as those who farmed them.  
  • For instance my main has almost every virtue 3-5 levels over cap.  I would bet that once this change comes, I will be knocked down below cap for "reasons"
  • There will be an outcry on the forums about people losing virtues they paid for ect. and the shills like Maartena will defend the change claiming "they can change the game anytime ect. ect."
  • While this is going on, they add mithril coins to kinships and are deflecting attention away from upcoming LI fuck up I mean overhaul

 

Just the way I see things happening..... of course the shills are all excited about Minas Morgul which I dont know how in hell they are going to do a full expansion of unless we head to Nurn as well (which frankly I would love to see as that is my favorite area in Both Shadows games).  But, we are heading to the Vales next and I can not wait to see how they screw that up.

 

Just my opinions on how I think this will play out.

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12 hours ago, Amenhir said:

You mean like a free virtue that is +100 to the awesomeness of your outfit, but the one in the store is +40,000 to tact mit?

Stop the mind reading ;)

Added: Who would have ever thought they would charge for the removal of essences? Or charge 50MC for a starter horse?

Players should expect anything and everything being changed for the worst possible scenario... all for the almighty $.

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10 hours ago, Amenhir said:

You mean like a free virtue that is +100 to the awesomeness of your outfit, but the one in the store is +40,000 to tact mit?

Exactly.

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They'll fuck this up some how, I'm certain of it. They're already thinking of stupid ways to implement it even at a most basic stage, and I can't understand how they have the jobs they do. It's almost as if they intentionally make shitty systems so that they can later "fix" them and look like they're doing something.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

They'll fuck this up some how, I'm certain of it. They're already thinking of stupid ways to implement it even at a most basic stage, and I can't understand how they have the jobs they do. It's almost as if they intentionally make shitty systems so that they can later "fix" them and look like they're doing something.

exactly., all the leaps and bounds shouts $$$$ Generator to me.  The simple way would be to simply do a deed and choose the virtue to add the point. 

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Just now, TheKickman said:

exactly., all the leaps and bounds shouts $$$$ Generator to me.  The simple way would be to simply do a deed and choose the virtue to add the point. 

I see it as basically the same solution. Reminds me of the perk system in the Fallout games, where you level up and get granted a point to spend in your perks, but they just sit there waiting to be spent until you choose. In this case, they want to cater to casuals yet a-fucking-gain, so they want to effectively grant fractions of points that you can build up, so they should just have a Virtue XP bar that fills up as you do deeds, and each time it gets completely filled it grants a point, then we just choose where it goes. Simple concept, but in the hands of incompetent devs.

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In my opinion at this point every time they revamp an old system it's only to squeeze more money.

The virtues system doesn't really need a revamp only need to become an account wide so one won't need to farm the same trait over and over again, but then who would buy all those wonderful virtues booster packages.

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And this is how this game finally dies.

Any bets they'll piss off the whales and die before they release the x64 client?

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21 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

And this is how this game finally dies.

Any bets they'll piss off the whales and die before they release the x64 client?

This game won't die that easily

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On 3/1/2019 at 5:15 PM, berry said:

This game won't die that easily

Actually, I hope it does.

 

Many thoughts here in this lotrocommunity thread seem spot on projecting the outcome of the Virtue revamp.

 

Comments like this quoted below ensure the shitshow grind increases.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?672629-New-Virtue-Traits-Panel-Charity-Nerf

 

"I really love SSG for revamping the trait system. It looks great and it will be a hole new experience. Yes, there will be some grind, but it's better than beeing on virtue cap all the time. So we have something to do and aren't limited to the specific region deeds. If a similar system will replace the current LI system, that would be great!"

SSG reads post from retards like this and tell themselves they struck gold.

 

Fair percentage of the existing playerbase. -------> Drooling, thousand yard stares, while spurting ejaculate just because another virtual box gets filled with pixels.

It's no wonder anyone, I met from the early years, I would remotely consider worthy of friendship has long moved on. All that is left in the barrel are the dregs.

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13 minutes ago, Splay said:

"... it will be a hole new experience."

This Freudian slip is pretty accurate.

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On the plus side it's Tybur's big project so she will at least be on the forums looking at the feedback.

Unless there's going to be a lot of alerts popping up telling you you've levelled a virtue then I can see folk maxing one virtue to 60 with the rest on zero.

I think the EP's letter must have been delayed getting his bosses go ahead so it's all written in stone from now on as far as SSG are concerned. So I'm getting loads of remaining deeds to an almost completed stage so I can max out the new virtue on day one and forget about it.

There's not a mention of the new group finder on BR forums, why? Because literally no one has any interest in using one.

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On 5/4/2019 at 10:46 AM, Macdui101 said:

On the plus side it's Tybur's big project so she will at least be on the forums looking at the feedback.

Unless there's going to be a lot of alerts popping up telling you you've levelled a virtue then I can see folk maxing one virtue to 60 with the rest on zero.

I think the EP's letter must have been delayed getting his bosses go ahead so it's all written in stone from now on as far as SSG are concerned. So I'm getting loads of remaining deeds to an almost completed stage so I can max out the new virtue on day one and forget about it.

There's not a mention of the new group finder on BR forums, why? Because literally no one has any interest in using one.

There is no plus side. Anyone who thinks there is, is only deluding their selves. The games history development proves this again and again. Anyone who has already put the leg work in, will get screwed.

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Yet it still goes on.

Yes they will want to "sell" everyone advancements from the store. But so many are entrenched against that and can be happy the whales will carry on paying through the nose for those of us who play for free.

Like ILIs hit the newcomers to cap this will hit them too, likely increasing the gap in relative power, dependant on how relevant the stats play out ofc. For the old hands who have the current relevant virtues at 20/31 we'll be streaks ahead of these newcomers who may have just got the 5 virtues to the 20 cap and stopped. So many display a complete lack of planning/future proofing dev decisions. But I'm motivated by the challenge of working around the worst of the implementations SSG do and getting a handle of what's coming up and preparing for it. 

My input on the Scavenger hunt threads on the OFs was just to highlight the poor implementation and devise the means to get around all the progression blocks that "QA" w/couldn't appreciate. My new roll f2p char that completed the 10 year hunt, only this week levelled to 20 and could use /world chat finally. 

It's only taken me maybe 3 days on my main to get all remaining landscape deeds to a near finish. I stopped raiding after Orthanc so I'll be missing newer raid deeds but I'll be ahead of the majority. It won't help alts who'll lack all raid deeds but then SSG just never understands consequences so much.

I don't feel the need to level a new toon, this cycle of old content reuse gives me enough looks into the past of the game and only shows how poorly SSG are doing with it.

Mac

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hide the nerf!

this one looks every bit the slippery money slope as they unpack it.

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Virtue ranks cost 1000 VP up to rank 10, 1100 to 20, 1200 to 30 on up to 1500 VP beyond rank 50. Each of the old virtue deeds now earn 1000 VP

I can't work out how they have arrived at the new ranks for the old virtues, because it looks like it's a lot easier to gain the rank by completing deeds before it goes live as earning on BR takes a good deal more deeds to rank up the new virtue.

As it stands it'll just further discourage people who couldn't be bothered with LIs, or trait points, or the reading skill tooltips. But hey they can use the new group tool to plague your fellow/raid now.  

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Macdui101 said:

Virtue ranks cost 1000 VP up to rank 10, 1100 to 20, 1200 to 30 on up to 1500 VP beyond rank 50. Each of the old virtue deeds now earn 1000 VP

I can't work out how they have arrived at the new ranks for the old virtues, because it looks like it's a lot easier to gain the rank by completing deeds before it goes live as earning on BR takes a good deal more deeds to rank up the new virtue.

As it stands it'll just further discourage people who couldn't be bothered with LIs, or trait points, or the reading skill tooltips. But hey they can use the new group tool to plague your fellow/raid now.  

 

 

 

Has there been any indication of a conversion rate of LP to VP? I can see SSG having this be one LP for one VP and think its a sensible deal lol.

 

I will be having fun with their new grouping tool. I'll see how it works and join groups just to watch them wipe because I know all the slackers and dimwits will jump on this thinking to get easy gains with minimal input.

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16 hours ago, Macdui101 said:

As it stands it'll just further discourage people who couldn't be bothered with LIs, or trait points, or the reading skill tooltips. But hey they can use the new group tool to plague your fellow/raid now.  

What about those of us that know the skills and systems, but don't want to spend half their life remaking an LI that gets discarded at the next level up?

If Turbine (or SSG) had ever figured out how to take my LI with me, I would probably have kept on with LotRO, but the work required for an LI that DOES NOT CHANGE is a bit on the stupid side, especially combined with essence gear.

 

 

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The ILIs change drastically and you don't discard them. For LSs the discarding is nothing compared to the ILI grind/cost. Several times we have gotten ILI level raises without a cap increase just to drive the store sales. The backlash has had them tone these down recently as dps values on them have dropped behind non LI weapons offhands. Moria used to provide enough marks and meds to barter scrolls from the skirmish camp, they may have reduced the drop rate ofc...

If these virtue changes go through it will be felt more on the LSs as they have further to progress under this system.

As you ID people on the LSs do you notice the ratio of people who have levelling LIs and peeps who have none? I see people on Evernight with imbued legacies at rank 10 and 12 that with a few "free" IXP runes from deconns would have them at maybe 35 (min before scrolls). 

They just have too many advancement sub-systems going on, some will embrace them all, some just a few and others none of them. Then Vastin has to balance the game, nightmare. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Macdui101 said:

They just have too many advancement sub-systems going on, some will embrace them all, some just a few and others none of them.

While I generally like complex and interesting mechanics, this is what I saw in LotRO as they see this as a time sink.  Something I learned around the time of Dol Amroth was that there was zero point of creating an alt because there's too many bars that need to be filled when it comes time to build out a character for endgame content.  That said, my perspective on that has always been from an MMO player that is used to devs expecting the players not to be completely brain dead morons...

 

 

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