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Altreg01

Other MMOs?

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Being a long time gamer, but pretty uninterested lately Im yearning for a new game. My son, also a gamer since he was old enough (would that be bad parenting or good??) is on his way home from his first year in college this week and asked me if I was still playing LOTRO.  He mentioned he and his friends want to try an MMO and was asking me about them. My son has had a F2P account on LOTRO in the past, but his one friend is dead fast against LOTRO was asking me about others. Ive dabbled in GW2, and ESO not much to my liking though. He mentioned the Star Wars MMO, is that any good? Part of me wishes they would play LOTRO as starting an established MMO for the first time generally sucks and I could reroll with them on the not so Legendary Servers and not feel totally lost and out of place.

 

Any suggestions?  

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There aren't any good MMOs out there today.  They're all toxic cesspools of entitlement, exploits, and corrupt developers who couldn't give less of a shit about their player base.  Gamers have largely moved on from those halcyon days of camaraderie and cooperation for a common goal.  Today, it's all about instant gratification, pay-to-win cash stores, and bad-mouthing kids on the other side of the globe through comms/Ventrillo/Teamspeak/Discord for the lulz.

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, psalm8818 said:

There aren't any good MMOs out there today.  They're all toxic cesspools of entitlement, exploits, and corrupt developers who couldn't give less of a shit about their player base.  Gamers have largely moved on from those halcyon days of camaraderie and cooperation for a common goal.  Today, it's all about instant gratification, pay-to-win cash stores, and bad-mouthing kids on the other side of the globe through comms/Ventrillo/Teamspeak/Discord for the lulz.

 

 

 

 

This, there are no non-shit MMOs out there anymore.

NHd8mK0.png

 

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8 hours ago, Altreg01 said:

Being a long time gamer, but pretty uninterested lately Im yearning for a new game. My son, also a gamer since he was old enough (would that be bad parenting or good??) is on his way home from his first year in college this week and asked me if I was still playing LOTRO.  He mentioned he and his friends want to try an MMO and was asking me about them. My son has had a F2P account on LOTRO in the past, but his one friend is dead fast against LOTRO was asking me about others. Ive dabbled in GW2, and ESO not much to my liking though. He mentioned the Star Wars MMO, is that any good? Part of me wishes they would play LOTRO as starting an established MMO for the first time generally sucks and I could reroll with them on the not so Legendary Servers and not feel totally lost and out of place.

 

Any suggestions?  

I enjoyed playing Star Wars and at the moment am playing Final Fantasy XIV which is amazing IMHO 

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11 minutes ago, PJ. said:

I enjoyed playing Star Wars and at the moment am playing Final Fantasy XIV which is amazing IMHO 

Agreed on FFXIV - but you gotta take the approach to it that you're playing it to enjoy the main story quests until you get your first char to level cap, otherwise you will hate yourself.  There's so much gating as everything in FFXIV (a lot of services, instances, zone flight, and even zone access) is gated behind quests, but all of those quests are clearly marked.

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10/10 -  FFXIV - hands down. I even managed to swallow the Manga nonsensical aesthetics, and that is telling. 

7/10 - ESO.

6/10 - GW2

6/10 - SWTOR

 

Dare I say WoW?

A bit of Diablo? PoE? Nah... Stick to FFXIV...  :) 

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I'm currently playing GW2 as my main mmo and I enjoy it very much.  I did pick up both expansions on sale about a year ago so I have access to the mounts, which makes it a lot more fun.

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1 hour ago, warspeech said:

I'm currently playing GW2 as my main mmo and I enjoy it very much.  I did pick up both expansions on sale about a year ago so I have access to the mounts, which makes it a lot more fun.

GW2 has its flaws, so this isn't a massive endorsement, but...  IMO, in a very shit tier games market, (especially MMO's) it is the current best offering out there.

if i wasn't freeloading my ass off @Lotro i would be watching for an expansion bundle, or some kind of packaged offer (they happen frequently) and wade back in.  the entire base game (they whole of the original release back in 2012 is FTP) which is a sizable chunk more than what LoTRO currently unlocks for free.   like massive amount of game...  core Tyria that is free to play:    👇⬇️👇⬇️

tyria_map_with_zones.jpg?w=648

the 2 current expansions each unlock new methods of travel (Heart of Thorns for gliding, & Path of Fire for what are the best mounts in the entirety of the MMO scene.)  whilst original game was good, the new traveling methods ad a whole other dimension to the game...

the map including the 2 expansions can be seen here:

https://game-maps.com/GW2/img/gw2-zones-map.jpg?v=20190321

so yeah, a lot of game to try out for free, though the mounts and gliding may have you spending...  regardless, you can try out a massive chunk of the game entirely for free (that includes structured PvP & WvWvW.)

i have a feeling though, your son and his friends will enjoy it more than you will.  but if playing with them & having them enjoy it is a factor...  regardless, this is the only thing i can currently come close to endorsing on the existing MMO market.  & nothing upcoming is grabbing my attention.

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On 5/6/2019 at 8:13 PM, cossieuk said:

I enjoy Star Trek Online.  

I played that a while ago, and found it fun for a while.  How is it long term?

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I tend to play it every few months when they release the latest story update.

They are about to launch an update where the star ships level up with you.   So you can use the top tier ships, with some restrictions that get removed as you level up, from the get go.  They have events throughout the year to get the top tier ships for free, as well as the ones you can buy.

You can also earn store currency from playing but it is a very slow process 

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I've picked Runescape back up again. It's amazing how far it's come, even if it is still visually an absolute mess. I think it's only the nostalgia in me that's got me interested, considering that was the same reason I was playing the LotRO limited servers.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again: MMOs just don't hold the same appeal to me as they used to. There's too much grind and too much time invested for it to be played properly, when it could all get snatched away from you by a single shitty dev decision. The hardcore MMOers expect insane levels of dedication and socialising, while the casual crowd that's mostly catered for are effectively retarded and so are given mind-numbing content in return. It's just not worth the hassle any more.

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They are leaning towards WOW, I wont follow them there, I will definitely muck around on lotro for the time being especially to see the utter destruction if that loot box ban law passes

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15 hours ago, Doro said:

I've picked Runescape back up again. It's amazing how far it's come, even if it is still visually an absolute mess.

For me WoW is the limit as far as horrid graphics is concerned. I don't need this Tera-AION-Archage-etc shit to play, but the few youtube videos of Runescape I've watched did make me cringe. 

 

@ Alt - WoW??? Oh well, it's their free time after all. Solid game-play at least. 

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On 5/8/2019 at 8:03 AM, Doro said:

MMOs just don't hold the same appeal to me as they used to. There's too much grind and too much time invested for it to be played properly, when it could all get snatched away from you by a single shitty dev decision.

this is why i don't particularly care when i jump back in to GW2.  i will essentially be starting over.  my existing characters aren't level 80, and each inventory is a mess, so the most practical solution (currently) is to just straight up delete and start from scratch.

leveling to 80 will take me... a person with roughly a 3 to 5 hour time window per day, who actually likes to experience the game they are playing... a solid 4 months to reach.  & then it is a factor of gearing up for level 80 & unlocking the mastery system.  this segment i can't even guess the time frame, because it does involve drops and or A LOT of big gold purchases & play grind.

all assuming i don't ease off on the time commitment even for a day or two.

that initial hurdle of cleaning up the old mess and starting out isn't something i look forward too.  & anyone who is saying there won't be an element of grind, is flat out lying.  & while the game-play is solid & i know i enjoy it, i simply don't give a single fuck about the story  & right now the living world is still a big thing & i think episodic content is retarded.

so no rush to jump back in, even though i do enjoy actually playing the game.

 

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On 5/8/2019 at 4:03 PM, Doro said:

I've picked Runescape back up again.

Here's something funny I thought I would share. Just got back from a short trip for a wedding and found 2 message in my inbox from Runescape. The first was saying I'd been perma-banned for botting (never done such a thing). The second was saying they've proactively reviewed my account and unbanned me, before I'd even known I was banned to begin with. Here's the little message they put as the "offence evidence".

"Account banned for macroing in RuneScape. Our macro detection system has been monitoring your account closely and has detected that you are using illegal 3rd party software which violates the rules of the game and breaches your terms of service with Jagex. Our team have reviewed the evidence and can confirm that you were using illegal botting software. Jagex are able to accurately detect all illegal 3rd party software and any promises from their makers about being 'totally undetectable' or 'no ban guaranteed' are inaccurate. As such your account has been permanently removed from game. Please take this time to familiarise yourself with the rules should you wish to create another account."

Highlighted a key point. Accurately detect it, they say. Incredible how they can accurately detect something that doesn't exist. It made me wonder what I've got running on my computer that would trigger it. I do launch it through Steam as an external game, but that's for ease more than anything. This is what was in the unban message they sent the next day.

"As part of our ongoing initiative to proactively review banned accounts, we’ve taken another look and we have concluded that though there is evidence of rulebreaking, it is insufficient to merit a ban. As a result of this further investigation we have decided, on this occasion, to remove the ban. Investigations like this also provide us with valuable information about how your account as detected and as a result of this one we've made some adjustments to our detection system to avoid catching it again."

Again, my own highlighting. They've tweaked whatever it is being flagged up so that they don't detect it? Surely, if it's actually illegal 3rd party software, they'd want to keep that open for detection, right? After all, they say there is definitely evidence of rulebreaking, and they can detect that accurately apparently. Seems odd to let this one slide under the radar from now on.

Shit, they could've just as easily admitted they were wrong and their system triggered when it shouldn't have, with an apology. Nope, they instead try to act like they're letting me "get away" with whatever it is they claim I've been doing. Boys will be boys and all that. It's this sort of shit that makes MMOs a pain in the ass. At least with a single player game, I'm not likely to get banned for nout.

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Time to fess up Doro - you probably have Notepad, Wordpad and/or other text editors (Sublime comes to mind) - and we all know that's how scripting starts  you bad boy 🙂

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10 minutes ago, Woeg said:

Time to fess up Doro - you probably have Notepad, Wordpad and/or other text editors (Sublime comes to mind) - and we all know that's how scripting starts  you bad boy 🙂

One minute you're changing the design for your pointer arrow, the next you're running encrypted hacking of the NSA mainframe through Excel 2013. I couldn't help myself. I need help before I end up hiding in a foreign embassy as a whistleblower.

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On 5/9/2019 at 2:48 AM, Jedy2 said:

 

 

@ Alt - WoW??? Oh well, it's their free time after all. Solid game-play at least. 

Yes their choice, no real issues with it, but I for one will probably never play another MMO again this side of the remains of LOTRO.  Like stated by others the grind required just to catch up with the current state of any long running MMO is beyond what Im willing and able to put into it.  Would have loved to have game with my son and his friends, a great group of guys, the last time we gamed together was their brief stint into D3 two or three summers ago

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1 hour ago, Altreg01 said:

Yes their choice, no real issues with it, but I for one will probably never play another MMO again this side of the remains of LOTRO.  Like stated by others the grind required just to catch up with the current state of any long running MMO is beyond what Im willing and able to put into it.  Would have loved to have game with my son and his friends, a great group of guys, the last time we gamed together was their brief stint into D3 two or three summers ago

I feel I am in a similar situation in the sense of me staying with Lotro even though I despise near every change that leads to more grind and the store. I don't log on near as much or as long of sessions as I once did.

Any already existing game that came from the early era of MMOs will no doubt be grind based and I don't want to commit the time to be viable for any group type setting. I have been looking for a replacement for near half a decade mostly without success. I try other games but give myself some rules. Mostly decided by what I don't want vs what I do like and ofc anything that makes me remind myself why I dislike todays LotRO gets axed soon as it is apparent.

 

Features that get my axe out:

Anything P2W, F2P, Micro Transactions to progress via store sales. No PvP. Endless grinding to only have its time/effort erased by a new version of the same grind.

 

Features that will have me lay my axe aside:

Subscription based.

Continually development. Doesn't have to be grand just ongoing and I don't mean tweeking currently released content.

Active GM's in game. Also periodic interaction with them as players. I sure do miss this kind of thing.

A store that doesn't make me cringe or is continually thrown in me face.

Preferred but not a deal breaker. A game where your interaction has consequence. Whether this be discovery, character development, or PvP.

Something where my previous choices allow a sandbox mentality to discover things that aren't openly apparent to the simple minds of the masses.

A game that isn't linear or at least not completely.

A contiguous world. Not this thing of jumping from instance to instance. I like exploration as well as any other attractant to MMOs.

 

A tall order perhaps. Maybe this kind of thing is of the past. What ever the case, I continue to look for something beyond the shit show that is LotRo of today. It will have to be a fairly new game because I wont play just to be in catch-up mode from the onset.

One thing I've learned in some 20 years of playing MMO's. MMO's have a shelf life and knowing when to ditch it saves a lot of headache. By shelf life, I mean it hasn't abandoned its original concept that put it the gaming world and also hasn't abandoned it newly arriving players to maintain its current, original player base. Once this moment occurs imo its time to move on.

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3 hours ago, Altreg01 said:

Like stated by others the grind required just to catch up with the current state of any long running MMO is beyond what Im willing and able to put into it. 

just a side bar to this:

i just ran a capped character through Enedwaith to finish up another World Renown deed...  and the mob density is identical to launch...  was great for a level 120 deeding with zero agro, but a person running this for the first time?  it amazes me in 2019 games still don't have a dial for launch day state (for land-rush) and the initial first couple weeks, then a setting for the following months and perhaps a final setting for content older than 1 year.  they all develop with this initial land rush as the constant state in mind...  which is indeed great for over-level deeding, but actual first time questers who are likely in the zone with only a couple others at best...  not so much.

mass server tech mitigates this a bit, but regardless, if you aren't an initial adopter of a game & stay with the pack...  getting left in the dust is a pretty easy thing in any game.  not exactly the most enticing prospect for a new player, nor is having to pay a premium price for a much less enjoyable experience...   or just flat out paying to bypass it altogether...  whilst that solution seems acceptable to some, it will never wash with me.

games that can't figure out how to overcome this deserve to diminish.

if they think charging through the nose for a past due experience (or skipping it) is figuring it out...  heh, best of luck with that & i won't weep when thier game goes offline for good.

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22 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

i just ran a capped character through Enedwaith to finish up another World Renown deed...  and the mob density is identical to launch...  was great for a level 120 deeding with zero agro, but a person running this for the first time?

Are you telling me the casuals on Limited Servers are going to have to plan pulls and use proper rotations to cope with landscape content?! This should be changed ASAP, priority one, alpha bravo tango.

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On 5/11/2019 at 4:13 PM, Woeg said:

Time to fess up Doro - you probably have Notepad, Wordpad and/or other text editors (Sublime comes to mind) - and we all know that's how scripting starts  you bad boy 🙂

**closes down VS Code, VS, and Notepad++ **

What scripting problem? >.>

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Came to this thread in search of some recommendations, as other have before me... Strangely, feels good to have my suspicion confirmed that MMO market seems to be ailing and there haven't been any standout titles that didn't fall into the same old predatory milking cashcow formula. Perhaps the MMO phenomenon is reaching the end of its shelf life, having only been successful when it was a new experience to the now-veteran gamers. That sense of adventurous innocence of early MMO gaming era, once trampled on by developer/management ineptitude, can never be restored or replicated.

On 5/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, Splay said:

Something where my previous choices allow a sandbox mentality to discover things that aren't openly apparent to the simple minds of the masses.

This may sum up why the well of MMOs has dried up. Imagination and critical thinking are becoming such damn perishable skills in these days of 1.6-second attention spans and compulsive smartphone clicking, the mainstream is not even catering to anyone with average/above average comprehension levels.

I know the whole ´generations getting dumber' trope is as old as time, but both tech and tech addiction are accelerating so fucking fast it's like watching the crowd get progressively dumber in real time, now at accelerated pace. Who needs content with intellectual complexity when you can shit out pixel-clickers that charge real cash for interacting with their fandom logos? For every intelligent gamer (who would immediately see through this bullshit, thus not worth marketing to), there's several dozen no-ones shambling through their non-lives who would excitedly pay to become co-dependent on mindnumbing content distracting them from their issues, interpreting consumer abuse as token of attention and marketing exploitation as love.

Case in point: Users orgasming at the mere premise of paying more.

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12 hours ago, Doro said:

Are you telling me the casuals on Limited Servers are going to have to plan pulls and use proper rotations to cope with landscape content?! This should be changed ASAP, priority one, alpha bravo tango.

not what i am saying.

the only things that hit somewhat hard are the adult gwibers and the giants & while those things aren't every 5 feet, except a tad bit with the giants in giant home...  even there you kinda have to purposefully ignore everything around you to get a second by accident.

what i am referring to is the generic wimpy mobs (orcs, dunlendings, wargs, wolves, cunannun, wights, tree trolls and the slightly similar to limfram lights) literally every 5 feet that aren't remotely hard to fight, but it is like clearing 300 trash mobs before reaching a Boss fight in an instance...  filler.  it's like the back and forth for the Hobbits in Staddle, except there are 50 fly swarms between each hop.  i should also point out i am not referring to those in and around the little villages either, or a wolf den, or place where you would expect to see an enemy mob in some concentration.  i am talking all over the landscape willy-nilly.

i think the design was intended for landrushers so they wouldn't fight over mobs, or be like the faggots of yore needing to form a queue line for quests & or spawns...

image.thumb.png.7deb52d617b2515d87e58b5a789d3067.png

if the above was still commonplace in design & player made queue lines were still a thing...  no damn way would i ever touch this genre.

but generic trash landscape mobs every few feet so the hordes of players on launch day & for the first couple months have plenty to kill;  becomes a time wasting nuisance when the zone is no longer populated with hundreds of players.  

there isn't much difficultly until you get an adult gwibber, or giant, which is a segment of a zone segment (Thrors Coomb.)

it also looks UNNATURAL as fuck, but then so does Enedwaith itself in some regards.  every few feet just some random eazzie-pezzie mob, so even kiting, at some point you will have to stop and dispose of the remaining train.  nothing difficult, but moving around the zone is just tedious.  unless you are over-leveled.

all that said, this is LOTRO and i am sure there are some folk who will have difficulties fighting even a couple generic mobs, but most players can kill them easily enough.  yellow champ could dispatch any train easily.  if you think these things are difficult, you are probably doing something VERY wrong.  if you are the kind of person who likes fighting 300 trash mobs just to get to a challenge, well...  until you enter giants home, or face an adult gwibber... you shouldn't have to manage much of anything.

giants home doesn't need any changes.  tiny villages, animal dens, camps etc. would be natural places for mob density.  even having a roaming hunting party, or something like that.  but trash mobs every few feet is just liter & once the land rush of post launch ends... just bad design.

the only reason to have it like that is when there are actually hundreds of players in the zone.  even though it does look unnatural, it kind of has to be that way initially.  1 or 2 or 5 years later though...   ;)

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