Jump to content
LOTROCommunity
Sign in to follow this  
Doro

US Elections 2020

Recommended Posts

Where are you yanks on this? Is it going to be a 2nd glorious term of Drumpf, or will this be the protest vote to the protest vote and they bring in whoever is the most female and melanistic?

Personally, I'd love to see Trump back in just because I like the way he riles up the left over there, while the right can never see him do any wrong even if he spat in their faces. If not, maybe Comrade Sanders can get a shot at it. I'd be interested to see what he could actually do, what with so many systems stacked against him.

Oh, and this can't be a good idea for a candidate:

"Hell yes we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47," Mr O'Rourke said to applause. "We're not going to allow it to be used against your fellow Americans anymore."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49684419

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a "yank",  I think Trump needs to go.  I admit how he riles up the left--and the media in particular--is entertaining (even if, at times, the hysteria is warranted--he's said and done some crazy shit).  But for every stupid thing he does that should be pointed out, the media jumps on mundane shit or blows things out of proportion that is best left ignored.  I mean, do we really need another panel of "analysts" discussing the latest tweet and debating another lie?  Nope.

I'd like to see 4 years under Bernie.  He's been the most consistent (policies/views of the past 30 years) of any politician.  Equating socialism to communism is a fear tactic the Republicans have used for years, but it only speaks volumes about the party's ignorance and their resistance to change.  If we can pay trillions of dollars for an unnecessary war and billions of dollars to bail out corrupt Wall Street, we can spend the money for universal health care and free college (which is an actual investment in our country's future). 

As for guns...for a young country, we seem so stuck in the past.  Waving the second amendment as a blanket of security against common sense gun control is idiotic.  Cause y'know...its a fucking amendment.  The bottom line is that if there wasn't so much money involved and the NRA wasn't so entrenched in American politics, gun control would be less of an issue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

European here .

I would say that equating socialism with communism does have some sense because one leads to another .

And they are both failed ideologies as history showed countless of times .

As someone who lived in commie country ( that was nominally " just " socialist - trust me you do not want that ) .

For health care and college - i just have to play devil's advocate and say - if you want it pay for it,don't force me to pay for you .

Gun control/common sense - well the problem is there no clearly defined definition of what " common sense " is .Imagine if democrats in 2024 bring legislation that would ban straight white males from owning a gun ( because that demographics is according to them so evil,racist,misogynistic and what not ),that would make perfect " sense " to them,but not for me or you .

Again as European i have to say that you Americans seems not to understand how lucky you were for founding fathers to give you second amendment .

On topic - i hope Trump wins,not because i have much love for him but because alternatives from other party are just so damn insane .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

European here .

I would say that equating socialism with communism does have some sense because one leads to another .

And they are both failed ideologies as history showed countless of times .

As someone who lived in commie country ( that was nominally " just " socialist - trust me you do not want that ) .

For health care and college - i just have to play devil's advocate and say - if you want it pay for it,don't force me to pay for you .

Gun control/common sense - well the problem is there no clearly defined definition of what " common sense " is .Imagine if democrats in 2024 bring legislation that would ban straight white males from owning a gun ( because that demographics is according to them so evil,racist,misogynistic and what not ),that would make perfect " sense " to them,but not for me or you .

Again as European i have to say that you Americans seems not to understand how lucky you were for founding fathers to give you second amendment .

On topic - i hope Trump wins,not because i have much love for him but because alternatives from other party are just so damn insane .

Just to clarify, I'm referring to Democratic Socialism.  There is a difference.

Interestingly enough the top 10 countries with the highest quality of life, almost half of them are democratic socialist countries.  Failed ideology?  I disagree.  Having spent considerable time in Europe myself, makes me want to disagree even more.  

I would rather contribute to the education and health care of my country then pay for wars that certain companies and their execs profit from and bail out corrupt banks.  

I'm not even going to address the "straight white male owning a gun" scenario you presented because to be honest it sounds like a fear mongering ad from the NRA.  It's an extreme, and I believe there is a middle ground that can be met.  But, that means both parties would have to compromise and due to the political discourse in our country, that seems almost impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

For health care and college - i just have to play devil's advocate and say - if you want it pay for it,don't force me to pay for you .

I'm on the fence on both of these.

Healthcare, on the one hand I've seen how shitty a national health service actually is for the masses (so I pay for private), but on the other I can see how it benefits those at the extreme end who need it (kids who would otherwise die without medical care). Too many people wasting doctors' time on petty problems or self-inflicted issues, it should really be more of a safety net to catch people and not something the general public relies on constantly.

Higher education, on the one hand removing the financial barrier has massively devalued degrees (I had people on my course that hadn't done any science subjects before joining), but on the other hand it means people are free to improve their education if they want to. I'd prefer a scenario where society is footing the bill for people with true talent and ability in an area to become even better, so hurdles to getting into university/college need to be increased to make that worthwhile.

1 hour ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

Gun control/common sense - well the problem is there no clearly defined definition of what " common sense " is .Imagine if democrats in 2024 bring legislation that would ban straight white males from owning a gun ( because that demographics is according to them so evil,racist,misogynistic and what not ),that would make perfect " sense " to them,but not for me or you .

Agreed. The line is very subjective right now. For example, mine is that people should have what's required when owning a car (at least here in the UK): lessons, passing a theoretical and practical test, requiring a licence, guns needing to be registered at all times, guns needing yearly safety assessments, insurance, and a gun tax to make hording weapons less desirable. In addition, I'd put the usual background checks, a signatory of character, limits on ammunition permitted, and a mental health evaluation. I'm all for people having guns, I'm just against any Thomas, Richard, or Harold being able to pick them up so easily, but that's again a subjective issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Democratic Republic under a two party system doesn't work. By siding slightly one way or the other, lumps sensible citizens into groups controlled by extreme prevailing views. So, no matter what one particular candidate looks appealing, at any given moment, for any person, nothing will change. Morons to the Left, Morons to the Right. One step forward, two steps back. Line dancing at its finest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Papi said:

As a "yank",  I think Trump needs to go.  I admit how he riles up the left--and the media in particular--is entertaining (even if, at times, the hysteria is warranted--he's said and done some crazy shit).  But for every stupid thing he does that should be pointed out, the media jumps on mundane shit or blows things out of proportion that is best left ignored.  I mean, do we really need another panel of "analysts" discussing the latest tweet and debating another lie?  Nope.

I'd like to see 4 years under Bernie.  He's been the most consistent (policies/views of the past 30 years) of any politician.  Equating socialism to communism is a fear tactic the Republicans have used for years, but it only speaks volumes about the party's ignorance and their resistance to change.  If we can pay trillions of dollars for an unnecessary war and billions of dollars to bail out corrupt Wall Street, we can spend the money for universal health care and free college (which is an actual investment in our country's future). 

#TriggeredDemocrat

Keep him in for another four years, and maybe the Democrats will QQ their way into something resembling a functioning political party instead of a bunch of politically correct ideologues that can't do a single thing aside from argue and farm Twitter rep.

And if anyone is seriously pulling for Bernie, they need to get their head checked cause Bernie needs to be stuck in an old folks home cause he's clearly sufferring from dementia.... much like half of the Demcoratic candidates this go around.

Should be an easy slam dunk for Trump if he doesn't get cocky and blow it.

8 hours ago, Papi said:

As for guns...for a young country, we seem so stuck in the past.  Waving the second amendment as a blanket of security against common sense gun control is idiotic.  Cause y'know...its a fucking amendment.  The bottom line is that if there wasn't so much money involved and the NRA wasn't so entrenched in American politics, gun control would be less of an issue.

Then please explain why all of the Democrats seem to love having armed guards while they go after gun rights?

Oh wait, you can't, because everyone knows the Democrats are the party of double standards that have the slogan "do as I say, not as I do".

7 hours ago, Papi said:

Interestingly enough the top 10 countries with the highest quality of life, almost half of them are democratic socialist countries.  Failed ideology?  I disagree.  Having spent considerable time in Europe myself, makes me want to disagree even more.  

Then move there and get the hell out of the US.

7 hours ago, Papi said:

I would rather contribute to the education and health care of my country then pay for wars that certain companies and their execs profit from and bail out corrupt banks.  

And which party bailed out the banks and failed corporations?

The Democrats are the puppets of corporate America - and anyone that doesn't see this is blind and out of touch with reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Splay said:

A Democratic Republic under a two party system doesn't work. By siding slightly one way or the other, lumps sensible citizens into groups controlled by extreme prevailing views. So, no matter what one particular candidate looks appealing, at any given moment, for any person, nothing will change. Morons to the Left, Morons to the Right. One step forward, two steps back. Line dancing at its finest.

That only happens when you turn politics into sports, as it only benefits the Democrats as they have been doing a divide and conquer approach with the hyphenated Americans and identity politics, and taking advantage of the finger pointing that creates.

When you actually start discussing ideas (which is what the right is doing) instead of going after the most appealing soundbytes possible (just look at the 2019 Democratic debatesc), and get everyone to start thinking instead of trying to make sure your team wins, that's when progress starts happening regardless of the parties.  That's also not going to happen until the Democratic party either rolls over and dies (hopefully to be replaced by the Libertarians) or the Democrats excise the far left identity politic waving idiots.

An eagle can't fly if there's a strong right wing while the left one keeps trying to smack everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

That only happens when you turn politics into sports, as it only benefits the Democrats as they have been doing a divide and conquer approach with the hyphenated Americans and identity politics, and taking advantage of the finger pointing that creates.

When you actually start discussing ideas (which is what the right is doing) instead of going after the most appealing soundbytes possible (just look at the 2019 Democratic debatesc), and get everyone to start thinking instead of trying to make sure your team wins, that's when progress starts happening regardless of the parties.  That's also not going to happen until the Democratic party either rolls over and dies (hopefully to be replaced by the Libertarians) or the Democrats excise the far left identity politic waving idiots.

An eagle can't fly if there's a strong right wing while the left one keeps trying to smack everything else.

There are so many things wrong with this, I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

However, Trump the man is another matter. This guy is an embarrassment to the United States. He was a poor choice regardless of party and view. He has mental problems, which are obvious to see. He can't stay on any track and doesn't use logic. The world stage laughs at him and the country he represents. It would been better to place a child on the Oval office than him. To think there are idiots who would support a psychological nightmare as him, just shows how willing people are willing to spite their other half than find a path into our future which is sustainable.

Trump didn't lower unemployment rates. That was already set in motion before he got there. Trump didn't improve health care, which he claimed he would. Trump didn't build his wall. which was a major sticking point for his election. Trump didn't improve anything economically for the US. Trump didn't make our country safer. Trump didn't advance our standing in Science, Medicine or any other such Academia. College loans are still life long debts for higher degrees. Trump didn't improve our infrastructure , utilities, or make our environment cleaner.

What did he do?

Stay up to all hours in the night, playing Twitter. Oh, and firing his staff non stop, while playing wackamole with federal employees who oversee our Federal Agencies.

 

Saying this in no way suggests the past Democratic party's choice would have done any better. It says we as Americans are making poor choices.

 

There was never anything set in place in our Constitution, Articles, or papers to handle or regulate political parties. Our founding father, George Washington opposed political parties and had good reason. All the while, his cabinet members were sidelining his premise, to eventually bring about what we have today. A means to consolidate power. Since we can't go back in time, we can learn from what George Washington espoused. That is, a country free to determine its own future and the means to do this, with checks and balances, for how our government is structured.

Maybe its time to introduce checks and balances into the political party structure by mandating a three party system. It is how Supreme Court works by purposely having and odd number to break ties. Its how the House and Senate are structured and its how the office of the President is set up. No one branch can overwhelmingly supersede the others.

 

Clever retort incoming. /Ducks head to avoid collateral bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Splay said:

There are so many things wrong with this, I wouldn't know where to begin.

 

However, Trump the man is another matter. This guy is an embarrassment to the United States. He was a poor choice regardless of party and view. He has mental problems, which are obvious to see. He can't stay on any track and doesn't use logic. The world stage laughs at him and the country he represents. It would been better to place a child on the Oval office than him. To think there are idiots who would support a psychological nightmare as him, just shows how willing people are willing to spite their other half than find a path into our future which is sustainable.

Trump didn't lower unemployment rates. That was already set in motion before he got there. Trump didn't improve health care, which he claimed he would. Trump didn't build his wall. which was a major sticking point for his election. Trump didn't improve anything economically for the US. Trump didn't make our country safer. Trump didn't advance our standing in Science, Medicine or any other such Academia. College loans are still life long debts for higher degrees. Trump didn't improve our infrastructure , utilities, or make our environment cleaner.

What did he do?

Stay up to all hours in the night, playing Twitter. Oh, and firing his staff non stop, while playing wackamole with federal employees who oversee our Federal Agencies.

Look ma, it's a sufferer of Trump Derrangement Syndrome.

9 minutes ago, Splay said:

Saying this in no way suggests the past Democratic party's choice would have done any better.

You're right, HRC would have ran the country into the ground.

9 minutes ago, Splay said:

There was never anything set in place in our Constitution, Articles, or papers to handle or regulate political parties. Our founding father, George Washington opposed political parties and had good reason. All the while, his cabinet members were sidelining his premise, to eventually bring about what we have today. A means to consolidate power. Since we can't go back in time, we can learn from what George Washington espoused. That is, a country free to determine its own future and the means to do this, with checks and balances, for how our government is structured.

So why aren't you advocating for term limits for the Senators and Representatives?  That would go miles towards solving this issue.

9 minutes ago, Splay said:

Maybe its time to introduce checks and balances into the political party structure by mandating a three party system. It is how Supreme Court works by purposely having and odd number to break ties. Its how the House and Senate are structured and its how the office of the President is set up. No one branch can overwhelmingly supersede the others.

Funny how you completely neglect to mention how lobbying is actually legal corruption, as that's distorting how Congress is working to benefit a few at the expense of many.  A classic example of what they do is the food pyramid I grew up with, pushed by the FDA, specifically:

sub-buzz-20433-1493920837-23.png

This thing is not a creation of a dietitian or nutritionist, but came about because of farmers lobbyist groups to the FDA to make grains the bedrock of the US diet for years.  Guess what, we all became obese because our diet is crap as the soy and corn farmer lobbyists figured out they could get government subsidies all while Monsato figured out they could create GMO soy, sue anyone that they found soy plants with their DNA in (because of pollen drift from bees and wind), and use the government like a cudgel to beat down the farmers who tried to oppose then and then send in their legal team when the government wouldn't do their bidding.  Those same government subsides are a large reason why soy and corn products are in almost everything we consume in the US.

All of this, because the lobbyist groups have figured out how to rig the system so they all get rich.  It doesn't matter how many parties we have until the lobbyist problem is dealt with because they can, just as easily buy off a Republican seat in Congress as they can a Democrat one - especially if they strike a devil's deal with the candidate involving campaign financing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya lobbying and term limits are certainly evils but, I chose to stay on track per the title and its first two sentences. Not drag everyone's mother into an orgy.

 

As I knew and suggested so you have no ability to look at things objectively. You're too deep in the barrel of shit to see anything else. I knew this already before posting so I am still clean.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Splay said:

Ya lobbying and term limits are certainly evils but, I chose to stay on track per the title and its first two sentences. Not drag everyone's mother into an orgy.

Ok, so how is:

10 hours ago, Splay said:

A Democratic Republic under a two party system doesn't work. By siding slightly one way or the other, lumps sensible citizens into groups controlled by extreme prevailing views. So, no matter what one particular candidate looks appealing, at any given moment, for any person, nothing will change. Morons to the Left, Morons to the Right. One step forward, two steps back. Line dancing at its finest.

Not a derail?

If you can't work within the confines of the system, then maybe you should reflect deeper upon:

33 minutes ago, Splay said:

As I knew and suggested so you have no ability to look at things objectively. You're too deep in the barrel of shit to see anything else. I knew this already before posting so I am still clean.

Because it actually sounds like you describing yourself.

I'm betting we're going to see you doing a repeat of 2016:

 

Oh, and by the way, all of that stuff about the farmers comes from my family in Iowa that farms, not some tinfoil hattery like you seem to think.  So kindly, please pull your head out of your ass so you can properly get perspective on this discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

#TriggeredDemocrat

Keep him in for another four years, and maybe the Democrats will QQ their way into something resembling a functioning political party instead of a bunch of politically correct ideologues that can't do a single thing aside from argue and farm Twitter rep.

And if anyone is seriously pulling for Bernie, they need to get their head checked cause Bernie needs to be stuck in an old folks home cause he's clearly sufferring from dementia.... much like half of the Demcoratic candidates this go around.

Should be an easy slam dunk for Trump if he doesn't get cocky and blow it.

Then please explain why all of the Democrats seem to love having armed guards while they go after gun rights?

Oh wait, you can't, because everyone knows the Democrats are the party of double standards that have the slogan "do as I say, not as I do".

Then move there and get the hell out of the US.

And which party bailed out the banks and failed corporations?

The Democrats are the puppets of corporate America - and anyone that doesn't see this is blind and out of touch with reality.

You're all over the place (as usual).  I admit that the media and the left overreact to Trump and you label me a triggered Democrat.  Makes sense given how you normally act on here.

Your counter argument against Bernie is that he is suffering from dementia.  In other words, you're fresh out of ideas.

You've used the "democrats-love-having-armed-guards" trope before.  It was stupid then, it's stupid now.

It was a bi-partisan effort, during President Bush's administration.  I know, facts are sometimes hard.

Both sides are equally entrenched in corporate America.  But if it helps you sleep better at night, paint the Democrats as your favorite boogie man.  Whatever gives you peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almagnus1, that guy who gets invited to a party by a co-worker who owes him a favor. Almagnus1, that guy who at, said party has "not" a few beers too many and begins ranting political views like a madman and unawares that people are slowly vacating the room. Almagnus1, that guy who the host amicably offers him some pizza delivery and consumes near the whole pie. Almagnus1, that guy who is now in a metabolic shutdown from blood sugar saturation, nodding off into a lethargic slumber. Almagnus1, that guy who barfs all over the host new, real, suede leather sofa. Almagnus1, that guy who the host's brother that owed Almagnus1 a favor, is so embarrassed, swears to go to never bring him to his brothers house again.

 

This Ladies and Gentlemen this is an American. An American who supports a President and the current corrupt system that supports his way of life. An American, who supports a President that has allowed one of the finest cities in American to become a pile of trash in less than 20 years, which makes the ghettos of Detroit look like a holiday resort. An American who makes a living employed by a less evil company than Apple. An American who has no sense of sanity or an inkly of what discourse is. An American who can't stay on any rail no matter if someone strapped wheels on him or made them part of his DNA.

Honest question here. Have you ever once in your life talked about politics or its hot button issues and haven't gone totally bonkers? I'm thinking you haven't, but I'm willing to listen.

 

All I can say, to any reader here, is don't be that guy referenced above. Respect yourself more than that.

I was expected something clever not the usual "tow the line" rhetoric. Please try and be better. You owe it to yourself.

 

Four years ago, Bernie might have been a better choice. At least he has some scruples. Today though idk. He is getting old and having a President die in office can be a trying time for our country. Especially if his Vice President is less than optimal to continue in Bernie's footsteps. So, I'd say Bernie isn't a good choice anymore. The remainder of the democrat candidates do not interest me. Which puts me again in a position, where I will choose to abstain from voting, unless someone emerges who can truly inspire me to change my mind. And... who knows, they just might a Republican.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Papi said:

You're all over the place (as usual).  I admit that the media and the left overreact to Trump and you label me a triggered Democrat.  Makes sense given how you normally act on here.

Hey, I call them as I see them.

6 hours ago, Papi said:

Your counter argument against Bernie is that he is suffering from dementia.  In other words, you're fresh out of ideas.

While he was reasonably cogent on the Joe Rogan podcast... his recent behavior seems a bit too erratic, which is what leads me to believe he may be affected by dementia.  I mean, they guy is ancient after all.

6 hours ago, Papi said:

You've used the "democrats-love-having-armed-guards" trope before.  It was stupid then, it's stupid now.

Stupid like gun regulation?

6 hours ago, Papi said:

It was a bi-partisan effort, during President Bush's administration.  I know, facts are sometimes hard.

Both sides are equally entrenched in corporate America.  But if it helps you sleep better at night, paint the Democrats as your favorite boogie man.  Whatever gives you peace.

Democrats just seem to have more of it as most of the corporate media often aligns with the Democrats and they demonize the Republicans.

So let's talk about the Trump/Russia conspiracy theory shall we?

All of this is only going to serve to drive people to Trump, and it's gonna get him re-elected in 2020.

2 hours ago, Splay said:

Almagnus1, that guy who gets invited to a party by a co-worker who owes him a favor. Almagnus1, that guy who at, said party has "not" a few beers too many and begins ranting political views like a madman and unawares that people are slowly vacating the room. Almagnus1, that guy who the host amicably offers him some pizza delivery and consumes near the whole pie. Almagnus1, that guy who is now in a metabolic shutdown from blood sugar saturation, nodding off into a lethargic slumber. Almagnus1, that guy who barfs all over the host new, real, suede leather sofa. Almagnus1, that guy who the host's brother that owed Almagnus1 a favor, is so embarrassed, swears to go to never bring him to his brothers house again.

I'll take that as you waving the white flag.  If you're so triggered this is how you open a post, it means you have absolutely nothing substantive to say.

Enjoy Trump in 2020 😃

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Splay said:

However, Trump the man is another matter. This guy is an embarrassment to the United States.

Aussie here, and have been following US politics much more closely since Trump first started running. Never thought much of him before. Always found him a bit buffoonish during his Apprentice days. But when I saw the media going crazy, I decided to look into things a lot more closely, and saw just how irrationally deranged the media has become against Trump. I'm sure if he simply had a (D) instead of an (R) and nothing else was different, the media would still be in love with him. They act like bitter and twisted ex that feels betrayed.

For the record, I do not find Trump an embarrassment for the US at all. On the contrary, my opinion of him and the USA (divisive leftist outrage mongers excepted) is the highest it has ever been in my lifetime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

And if anyone is seriously pulling for Bernie, they need to get their head checked cause Bernie needs to be stuck in an old folks home cause he's clearly sufferring from dementia.... much like half of the Demcoratic candidates this go around.

Yet you're pulling for Trump? The guy has clearly not got a full deck, you've got to see that much at least. Bernie's problem is he's idealistic of a system that would never work for his plans (in fact, that same system is what's been getting in the way of Trump's plans this whole time), but he's definitely not got the sort of mental problems Trump presents. Either he's doing a fucking powerful Keyser Söze this whole time when he throws tantrums and tells petty lies to cover up mistakes, or he genuinely is an ageing out of touch billionaire with ego issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Hey, I call them as I see them.

While he was reasonably cogent on the Joe Rogan podcast... his recent behavior seems a bit too erratic, which is what leads me to believe he may be affected by dementia.  I mean, they guy is ancient after all.

Stupid like gun regulation?

So let's talk about the Trump/Russia conspiracy theory shall we?

All of this is only going to serve to drive people to Trump, and it's gonna get him re-elected in 2020.

 

Translation:  You can't even acknowledge a shared opinion, so you immediately resort to nut job right wing talking points right out the gate.  

Bernie is as consistent today as he was on the Rogan podcast as he was 30 years ago.  His message and demeanor hasn't changed.  You've basically got nothing.  Your blind bias is on fully display if you can't even admit Trump has his own set of "mental problems".

Another 20 to 30 years from now the rest of the world will have moved on and America will still be killing it's own with machines that were built and designed for war and people like you will still be shouting "I ain't gonna live without mah guns".  Fuck that.

Sure let's talk about the Trump/Russia conspiracy "theory"...34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump advisers including his National Security Adviser and Campaign Manager.  Did media outlets like MSNBC go full on crazy mode with some of their reporting?  God, yes.  Did it help that Trump, his advisers and even his own children were caught in outright lies about meetings with Russian officials/operatives?  That answer should be fucking obvious.

I genuinely think people are tired of Trump.  They are tired of the lies and the bullshit.  You have a record number of Republicans choosing to retire and/or leave the Republican party as a direct result of Trump (I mean, Trump isn't even a Republican--oh the irony).  Hell, the GOP is actually afraid that Texas will turn blue.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bohemond said:

Aussie here, and have been following US politics much more closely since Trump first started running. Never thought much of him before. Always found him a bit buffoonish during his Apprentice days. But when I saw the media going crazy, I decided to look into things a lot more closely, and saw just how irrationally deranged the media has become against Trump. I'm sure if he simply had a (D) instead of an (R) and nothing else was different, the media would still be in love with him. They act like bitter and twisted ex that feels betrayed.

For the record, I do not find Trump an embarrassment for the US at all. On the contrary, my opinion of him and the USA (divisive leftist outrage mongers excepted) is the highest it has ever been in my lifetime.

I never thought anything of Trump going back over 30 years. So in that, I'm neutral. All, I knew is he was a New Yorker living a privileged life on his family's fortune. Later, I learned he owned a casino and had properties throughout NYC. Not unusual for millionaires to own property and businesses. Also, found out he went bankrupt a bunch of times. Nothing new there really. Trump was never on my radar. So much a none factor, I assumed he was a Democrat. Such is often, the case with wealthy New Yorkers.  In recent years, the only reason he caught my attention, was upon learning how Trump managed to get and accrue a huge tax write off. Its some where in the 900 million range. The whole thing is kind of shady and our own tax regulations allowed it to happen. Businessmen playing a system set about with loopholes in place by businessmen. Again nothing new there. Then, after he openly said he was going to run in the 2016 election and later commented when questioned about his taxes, his response didn't sit well with me. Again nothing new coming from someone who has made millions on the backs of the working class.

Hyper-mania News. I don't watch it. I learned years ago, why it is, what it is and since pay no mind to it and the people who get caught up in its deceptive webs. I sure as hell don't let it on my television as background noise, because it is just as you say, Crazy. Irrational. Deranged. The thing is it doesn't matter who wins or loses, the media needs something to throw into the trough for the masses for feed off of. And... everyone can be sure its of a magnitude to be classed as Hyper-Mania

6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Hey, I call them as I see them.

While he was reasonably cogent on the Joe Rogan podcast... his recent behavior seems a bit too erratic, which is what leads me to believe he may be affected by dementia.  I mean, they guy is ancient after all.

Stupid like gun regulation?

Democrats just seem to have more of it as most of the corporate media often aligns with the Democrats and they demonize the Republicans.

So let's talk about the Trump/Russia conspiracy theory shall we?

All of this is only going to serve to drive people to Trump, and it's gonna get him re-elected in 2020.

I'll take that as you waving the white flag.  If you're so triggered this is how you open a post, it means you have absolutely nothing substantive to say.

Enjoy Trump in 2020 😃

You can take it any irrational way you want. I couldn't give two fucks tbh. Bring something worthy to the table not which isn't polluted with full-on bias and I might indulge you in a response.

As far as substantive. Have you ever done so?

Continue on with your Line Dancing, at least in that you'll provide some humor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Doro said:

Yet you're pulling for Trump? The guy has clearly not got a full deck, you've got to see that much at least. Bernie's problem is he's idealistic of a system that would never work for his plans (in fact, that same system is what's been getting in the way of Trump's plans this whole time), but he's definitely not got the sort of mental problems Trump presents. Either he's doing a fucking powerful Keyser Söze this whole time when he throws tantrums and tells petty lies to cover up mistakes, or he genuinely is an ageing out of touch billionaire with ego issues.

From what I've seen, he's more together than he appears to be, but that viewpoint is completely understandable if you're watching the mainstream media for your opinion as they have been creating the narrative that he's off his rocker to try to impeach and remove Trump from office because he beat HRC.

That said, no one's disputing that he does have ego issues or that he is an asshole.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

Translation:  You can't even acknowledge a shared opinion, so you immediately resort to nut job right wing talking points right out the gate.  

Or maybe you don't know truth when you see it?

4 hours ago, Papi said:

Bernie is as consistent today as he was on the Rogan podcast as he was 30 years ago.  His message and demeanor hasn't changed.  You've basically got nothing.  Your blind bias is on fully display if you can't even admit Trump has his own set of "mental problems".

Most of what Bernie has been espousing won't work fiscally, as the healthcare system he talks about is great for farming votes, but when people actually ask him how he's going to implement it, he's dancing around the point that it's going to need taxes that are going to break the country.

And yet... no one is talking about why healthcare is as expensive as it is (which is largely the insurance industry being a parasite on the medical industry, and using that to hide costs).

4 hours ago, Papi said:

Another 20 to 30 years from now the rest of the world will have moved on and America will still be killing it's own with machines that were built and designed for war and people like you will still be shouting "I ain't gonna live without mah guns".  Fuck that.

Ah, I see you have a crystal ball that's clearly telling you the future will be all sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

Sure let's talk about the Trump/Russia conspiracy "theory"...34 indictments, 6 of which were Trump advisers including his National Security Adviser and Campaign Manager.  Did media outlets like MSNBC go full on crazy mode with some of their reporting?  God, yes.  Did it help that Trump, his advisers and even his own children were caught in outright lies about meetings with Russian officials/operatives?  That answer should be fucking obvious.

And this is why I really hate discussing things with Democrats - they move the target to best suit them rather than sticking with what we're actually taking about and then accuse you of doing the exact same thing...  That and they often don't know what they hell they're talking about....

The conspiracy theory (which you damn well know the one I'm talking about) is the entire thing that Russia influenced the populace to get Trump elected and that he's a Russian puppet that was pushed by the mainstream media.

As far as meetings with other nations (which includes Russia), that's expected when you have someone that's a candidate for the President.  Most of those indictments came from the FBI witch hunt (which seemed more retaliatory due to the election loss based on the players involved).  It's kinda funny how incompetent Comey was as the director because he never really went after HRC as hard as he should have (what she did with classified emails would have landed a normal person in jail for decades)... and then decides to play hardball with Trump.  So in that context, the entire collusion probe was biased from the outside, and something that was I looked at as a political ploy more than something real (which was proven true later on).

Tell me you don't seriously think that a Presidential candidate has zero contact with people from outside of the US until after they've sworn the Oath of Office, right?  Because that's what it sounds like you're implying which is not how you'd expect a Presidential transition to go, especially when you have someone that takes initiative like Trump.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

I genuinely think people are tired of Trump.  They are tired of the lies and the bullshit.

Democrats perhaps.  There's enough Trump voters that he's going to get reelected.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

You have a record number of Republicans choosing to retire and/or leave the Republican party as a direct result of Trump

If it's cleaning house and getting career politicians out of Washington, how is that a bad thing?

Also, no one is forcing anyone to be a Republican, so if people don't want to stay in this party, they don't have to.

Honestly speaking, it's been long past due for the Democrats to do the same thing, as they've left real garbage humans, anti-semites, and long expired politicians sit and rot in Congress - which is half the problem.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

(I mean, Trump isn't even a Republican--oh the irony).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump disagrees.

4 hours ago, Papi said:

  Hell, the GOP is actually afraid that Texas will turn blue.

Texas is a completely different matter because Texas is actually about the suburbs - which means that Texas is more a litmus test for the education system which is showing that it's broken because it's creating a whole slew of people that don't know jack and start to shame you if you aren't in their political party.  These millennial Democrats will go out of their way to make your life hell if you don't believe EXACTLY what they think you should, and that's part of what's making it interesting in Texas.

Maybe if you lived here you'd understand that, but (like most Democrats) you think you know stuff you really, really don't.

Quote

I couldn't give two fucks tbh.

If you don't, why'd you respond?

Stop being a pussy about it and either own up to your messed up opinions or piss off.

9 hours ago, Bohemond said:

Aussie here, and have been following US politics much more closely since Trump first started running. Never thought much of him before. Always found him a bit buffoonish during his Apprentice days. But when I saw the media going crazy, I decided to look into things a lot more closely, and saw just how irrationally deranged the media has become against Trump. I'm sure if he simply had a (D) instead of an (R) and nothing else was different, the media would still be in love with him. They act like bitter and twisted ex that feels betrayed.

For the record, I do not find Trump an embarrassment for the US at all. On the contrary, my opinion of him and the USA (divisive leftist outrage mongers excepted) is the highest it has ever been in my lifetime.

Finally someone gets it and sees through the mainstream media BS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/13/2019 at 11:52 AM, Papi said:

If we can pay trillions of dollars for an unnecessary war and billions of dollars to bail out corrupt Wall Street, we can spend the money for universal health care and free college (which is an actual investment in our country's future). 

Not picking on you, just thinking out loud re: above idea.

Sounds beautiful on paper, but what gets lost entirely in such idealism is the practical reality of differences between US and European countries. Apples and oranges. The sheer size of US and its population makes it incomparable to the socialism scenario of relatively small Euro countries. I've lived across both US and Europe, just my own observations. Why does it work so well for Euro countries? Small size. Less population to regulate = more noticeable QoL changes it gets. Closer to "community feel", not least due to Euro countries' cultural heritage. All those Euro socialism ecosystems are very localized. It is both attractive and socially advantageous to buy into the communal "we" when both country and population are relatively moderate in size, so it really does give impression of collected effort.

US? It is so damn large, and the current systems are so deeply ingrained through its entire fabric, there is no way to massively change anything without massively breaking something else. Mass dismantling will have mass ripple effects. Universal health care and free college sounds totally tits, but how many years will it take to practically implement? Across such a massive population, with all its glaring income inequalities and widening gaps between "middle" class and middle class, if you get my gist? More than 4. More than 8. The country is too diverse, and with too much income/social inequality, for the transition to work as intended. Redirecting the funds one way means cutting them somewhere else. There's hardly any room left for any communal "we", it's all special interest groups and lobbying for favors, both sides. The only times "we" sounds convincing (to its target audiences) is when it's co-opted by smaller interest groups. Keyword smaller. US politics is all cliques and patchwork communities vying for validation, in a system too large and centralized to accommodate them all.

Would've loved if US had remained a union of individual States, with each state governing its own destiny. Local. More community-oriented in broader sense. Easier to manage. THEN the comparison with European countries would've been more valid, as far as size and population numbers.

Apolitical here, allergic to hysteria on "both sides", so I've no stake in the subject. But gonna say one thing. Expanding systems of intrusive governmental "income redistribution" attract fucking sleazy, power-hungry megalomaniac "administrators" like flies to shit. I gotta shake my head at those trusting such types to "really care" about human elements in universal health care, free education, etc. Such evocative, emotion-laden trigger words, how can anyone not care, right? Especially with all the billions and funds at fingertips. I promise all your dreams will come true if you vote for me today. Think of the children, the elderly, etc. I cringe the masses are still falling for same old opium.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

From what I've seen, he's more together than he appears to be, but that viewpoint is completely understandable if you're watching the mainstream media for your opinion as they have been creating the narrative that he's off his rocker to try to impeach and remove Trump from office because he beat HRC.

That said, no one's disputing that he does have ego issues or that he is an asshole.

I tend to only go to some mainstream source for link purposes after I've already been through alternative sources and discussions. Even without a MSM narrative, Trump's Twitter account alone doesn't particularly help inspire trust in his mental capabilities. He shouldn't be impeached or removed, but he's definitely not a particularly trustworthy or balanced individual. It's actually getting harder and harder to find world leaders lately who actually look the part. At least Putin holds himself like one, even if he is a manlet.

 

On a side note, I've got this recurring thought that the Trump family don't know how to act like real humans, but it got summed up nicely by someone else in a meme: the Trump's look like they stand like centaurs but without the hind part.

1YmTUzl.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

1. Most of what Bernie has been espousing won't work fiscally, as the healthcare system he talks about is great for farming votes, but when people actually ask him how he's going to implement it, he's dancing around the point that it's going to need taxes that are going to break the country.

2.  And yet... no one is talking about why healthcare is as expensive as it is (which is largely the insurance industry being a parasite on the medical industry, and using that to hide costs).

3. And this is why I really hate discussing things with Democrats - they move the target to best suit them...

4. The conspiracy theory (which you damn well know the one I'm talking about) is the entire thing that Russia influenced the populace to get Trump elected and that he's a Russian puppet that was pushed by the mainstream media.

5.  As far as meetings with other nations (which includes Russia), that's expected when you have someone that's a candidate for the President...

6.  If it's cleaning house and getting career politicians out of Washington, how is that a bad thing?

7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump disagrees.

 

1. He doesn't dance around anything.  If you actually listen, he explains in great detail exactly how it's going to work and not break the country.  He even broke it down in the Rogan podcast you cited earlier.  

2. Sanders has been talking about the corrupt insurance and pharmaceutical industry for the past 30 years, it's one of his key talking points.  Again, blind bias on your part.

3. No one is moving the target, and I've already admitted the media went into a bit of a hysteria.  As a result of the probe there were several indictments and people closely linked to Trump went to jail--for years.  You'd have a leg to stand on, if everyone was cleared and the world was full of rainbows and unicorns.

4.  The Mueller report made it abundantly clear that Russia actively sought to influence the general election in favor of Trump.  That point isn't even debatable.  Given how Trump would side with Putin over his own intelligence teams, it's not a far leap for the media to jump on the puppet bandwagon.  Did they take it to extremes?  Of course. 

5.  What is not expected is your key advisers (Kushner and Manafort), along with your son to have a meeting with a Russian operative with the sole purpose of getting dirt on your political rival.  They chose not to report it to the FBI--which any sane, intelligent person agrees should have happened.  Then, once discovered, they lied about the purpose of the meeting.  I'm pretty sure there were a few more lies about statements and so on and so forth.  It's hard to keep up with the bullshit.  Gee, I have no idea why anyone would be suspicious of anything at all.  If Obama did it...sweet Jesus, the right would have called for an impeachment right then and there.

6. Except that is not what is happening.  The fact that you think it's just career politicians tells me you don't even know what's going on in your own party.

7.  If you genuinely think that Trump is an actual Republican then you are without a doubt, hopeless.  Linking a wikipedia page is priceless.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Wrath of Winter said:

Sounds beautiful on paper, but what gets lost entirely in such idealism is the practical reality of differences between US and European countries....

The country is too diverse, and with too much income/social inequality, for the transition to work as intended.

I agree about the fundamental differences between the small European countries and the U.S.  Sanders rolled out a plan that would take several years to implement, targeting coverage of certain age groups over a period time.  Is it idealistic?  Yes.  

I'd say there is a direct link between access of adequate health care and education to the current income/social inequality.  You fix one, it goes a long way to fix the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and something very relevant that goes into why the Democrats are screwed in 2020:

https://dailycaller.com/2019/09/12/usc-la-times-voters-donald-trump-democrat-joe-biden/

1 hour ago, Wrath of Winter said:

US? It is so damn large, and the current systems are so deeply ingrained through its entire fabric, there is no way to massively change anything without massively breaking something else. Mass dismantling will have mass ripple effects. Universal health care and free college sounds totally tits, but how many years will it take to practically implement? Across such a massive population, with all its glaring income inequalities and widening gaps between "middle" class and middle class, if you get my gist? More than 4. More than 8. The country is too diverse, and with too much income/social inequality, for the transition to work as intended. Redirecting the funds one way means cutting them somewhere else. There's hardly any room left for any communal "we", it's all special interest groups and lobbying for favors, both sides. The only times "we" sounds convincing (to its target audiences) is when it's co-opted by smaller interest groups. Keyword smaller. US politics is all cliques and patchwork communities vying for validation, in a system too large and centralized to accommodate them all.

The other problem with all of this socialization that no one is talking about is that extending it to illegal immigrants that aren't paying into the system is a huge problem, especially when it's estimated that over a million immigrants a year are crossing the border.

1 hour ago, Wrath of Winter said:

Would've loved if US had remained a union of individual States, with each state governing its own destiny. Local. More community-oriented in broader sense. Easier to manage. THEN the comparison with European countries would've been more valid, as far as size and population numbers.

We tried, it failed miserably.

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

1. He doesn't dance around anything.  If you actually listen, he explains in great detail exactly how it's going to work and not break the country.  He even broke it down in the Rogan podcast you cited earlier.  

And Rogan proceeded to poke so many holes it in, it made Swiss cheese look like cheddar.

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

2. Sanders has been talking about the corrupt insurance and pharmaceutical industry for the past 30 years, it's one of his key talking points.  Again, blind bias on your part.

Talk is cheap.  For example, when many of my Dad's siblings get together, they bitch and moan about the government... yet not a single one of them has ever actually done anything to effect change.

What has Sanders done to actually solve the problem?

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

3. No one is moving the target, and I've already admitted the media went into a bit of a hysteria.  As a result of the probe there were several indictments and people closely linked to Trump went to jail--for years.  You'd have a leg to stand on, if everyone was cleared and the world was full of rainbows and unicorns.

And the handful that did were caught for.... wait for it... tax evasion and other things not related to Trump/Russia (IIRC).

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

4.  The Mueller report made it abundantly clear that Russia actively sought to influence the general election in favor of Trump.  That point isn't even debatable.  Given how Trump would side with Putin over his own intelligence teams, it's not a far leap for the media to jump on the puppet bandwagon.  Did they take it to extremes?  Of course. 

So Russia has tried to do the same thing that we have done countless times over and suddenly it's Trump's fault?

Given how the media has been so anti-Trump since he was elected, most of what you're referring to is baseless propaganda and nothing more.

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

5.  What is not expected is your key advisers (Kushner and Manafort), along with your son to have a meeting with a Russian operative with the sole purpose of getting dirt on your political rival.  They chose not to report it to the FBI--which any sane, intelligent person agrees should have happened.  Then, once discovered, they lied about the purpose of the meeting.  I'm pretty sure there were a few more lies about statements and so on and so forth.  It's hard to keep up with the bullshit.  Gee, I have no idea why anyone would be suspicious of anything at all.  If Obama did it...sweet Jesus, the right would have called for an impeachment right then and there.

As the FBI is strongly Democratic, and it was used to SPY on Republican candidates.... what sane Republican would do something that would get them arrested by a crooked cop?

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

6. Except that is not what is happening.  The fact that you think it's just career politicians tells me you don't even know what's going on in your own party.

As I stated earlier, people can leave a party if they want to, or go somewhere else.  The problem that the Democrats have is that they behave like a herd of sheep, so no one has enough balls to go their own way.  I take no issue with someone that wants to do that, as the parties should be fluid enough to adapt to changes in society over time.  Trump has helped the Republican party do just that which is why....

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

7.  If you genuinely think that Trump is an actual Republican then you are without a doubt, hopeless.  Linking a wikipedia page is priceless.

Demonstrates that you're out of touch with reality.

25 minutes ago, Papi said:

I agree about the fundamental differences between the small European countries and the U.S.  Sanders rolled out a plan that would take several years to implement, targeting coverage of certain age groups over a period time.  Is it idealistic?  Yes.  

I'd say there is a direct link between access of adequate health care and education to the current income/social inequality.  You fix one, it goes a long way to fix the other.

While I agree with the general idea that we should help our own first (instead of other countries), we already have medicare.

Personally, I don't want to touch any of the social entitlements until we have addressed the immigration issue as the entitlements should be for US citizens only, and some (like health care) can be looked into extending to the visa and green card holders, but none of the health care (aside from emergency services) should be extended to anyone that's a tourist or not legally supposed to be here.  Then there's all sorts of human rights abuses with the illegals because they're basically slave labor for farms and manufacturing (work for this substandard wage, or get deported).

Until we fix the issue with the porous southern border.... a universal healthcare system (and other entitlements for that matter) is going to break the bank because you know that non-citizens are going to forge IDs just to get health care... without properly paying into the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×