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Doro

US Elections 2020

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/i-can-beat-him-again-hillary-clinton-teases-2020-run

Just when you think things can't get any messier... HRC actually contemplates entering the 2020 primary....

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

Is he, though? From the look of the numbers, he's deported fewer people per year than Obama did (but Oboe did it as the media's darling, so it didn't count as racism then), and other than sticking some kids in detention camps it doesn't seem like he's done much else. His "wall" turns out to be a partial fence, which isn't going to change much considering where the current coyotes are most active is also not where they're building.

If money can't get appropriated for a project, it's gonna die on the vine.  What I think a lot of foreigners don't understand is that Congress actually holds a lot of power in the US government, so just because Trump can (for example) order the US Army to go build something, but if the US Army doesn't have sufficient funding from Congress, there's going to be far less funds there than needed to go build the thing.  Having one half of Congress stonewall a President can really grind their agenda to a halt.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

And his own personal brush with illegal immigration was fraudulently getting his foreign porn wife into the country under the guise of a "special talent" visa.

I think that underrates Melania quite a bit, as she comes off as far smarter than just a trophy wife.  I mean, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melania_Trump sounds like it's done by the book, especially with what I know working in an office that's about half full of people not from the US originally.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

That's actually a thing with Trump, I haven't seen him do anything good for the US, even when he had the political numbers backing him.

Like above, a lot of that was dealing with Republicans that were (most likely) swamp monsters.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

Overturning some Obama stuff

The vast majority of that stuff was either stuff that needed to go, or stuff of questionable constitutionality that Obama did and the media swept under the rug.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

enacting some other Obama stuff like the 8 Muslim countries ban that also got blocked,

Why should a country allow people from a country that openly states they are the devil to enter that country?

I realize that's not exactly what happened, but if there's just cause I'm fine with saying "people from this country can't enter".

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

fucking global economies with tariff wars,

The problem with global economies is that it renders the US economy weak to a foreign power like China deciding that we should follow their values or we get cut off.  I mean, all you have to do is take a look at BlitzChung and Blizzard (or just browse https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/ ) and you can see how badly this sits with Americans.  Part of the American problem with poverty was caused because we outsourced jobs and shipped them overseas, so getting that baseline industry BACK into the US will help the poor a lot more than the social programs have done.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

and hanging nukes in the balance

IIRC we got a nuclear power to disarm (I think it was Libya), and then proceeded to topple them under the Obama era.  The smart countries realized that nuclear disarmament is a bad idea because they can use nukes to keep the US out.  Iran realized this, and (as far as I could tell) decided to just ignore the agreement and build nukes.  North Korea has Seoul (which is on the border) in the target of a dead man's switch, so NK needs to be dealt because taking out NK is going to take out SK with NK's death throes.

While there are many that hate nukes, the sad truth is that we all need to be nuclear armed so we all think long and hard about armed combat.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

by having petty slagging matches on Twitter with other world leaders

I'm sorry, but if you haven't realized that Twitter is where President Trump's mind goes to take a crap, and should thus be ignored, you're a moron.

Twitter doesn't matter in this day and age, and companies that bow to Twitter go bankrupt.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

, but not much in the way of positive outcomes.

I think I've made the point on why I think this isn't the case.

6 minutes ago, Doro said:

What am I missing that isn't hyperbole to God Emperor Drumpf?

Yes, you should bow to the God Emperor, lest he unleash his Space Marines upon you.

48 minutes ago, Papi said:

Meanwhile...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-foreign-born-men-who-helped-giuliani-on-ukraine-arrested-on-campaign-finance-charges-11570714188

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/465256-suspects-arrested-on-campaign-finance-charges-after-having-lunch-with

"Prosecutors say Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman were part of a conspiracy to funnel a Russian donor’s money into President Trump’s campaign"

I look forward to seeing Giuliani on the weekend news broadcasts spinning out of control on this one (if he decides to show his face).

Ok, can't read the WSJ article cause that's behind a pay wall, but from the other one, apparently they were part of a pro-Republican PAC.... which means nothing.  Anyone can form a PAC and the PAC can be pro any candidate without the Candidate acknowledging (or sanctioning) the PAC's action.  We need more information.

The latter half of the article just rehashes the Ukraine stuff, much of which was already covered in the transcript... so that's nothing new.

Keep trying, and you might actually have a smoking gun.  Then again, it did take the room full of monkeys quite some time to generate the manuscript for a Midsummer's Night Dream....

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9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Twitter doesn't matter in this day and age, and companies that bow to Twitter go bankrupt.

Twitter SHOULDN'T matter in this day and age, but it clearly does when world leaders are using it to throw insults and threats at each other. You can't dismiss what Trump says on Twitter as just being him shit talking when it actively impacts international relations. He clearly means it, considering how often he uses it to pat his own back, too.

9 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

I think I've made the point on why I think this isn't the case.

Have you? I seem to have missed those, and I went back through twice just in case. He's had policies that have actually had a positive impact on the US?

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6 hours ago, Doro said:

Twitter SHOULDN'T matter in this day and age, but it clearly does when world leaders are using it to throw insults and threats at each other. You can't dismiss what Trump says on Twitter as just being him shit talking when it actively impacts international relations. He clearly means it, considering how often he uses it to pat his own back, too.

And perhaps the entire point of his usage of Twitter is just to make a smoke screen to distract those that really don't matter in the big scheme of things, while Trump does other stuff?  It's been pretty effective in that regard.

Also, if you're talking about world "leaders" like the pansy to the north.... maybe they just need to grow up and also grow some balls?

6 hours ago, Doro said:

Have you? I seem to have missed those, and I went back through twice just in case. He's had policies that have actually had a positive impact on the US?

He's cut back on a lot of the green policies enacted under the Obama administration that were strangling small business.  I know you see that as tantamount as blowing up the world, but America's economic strength is built on the small businesses that make it work... not the corporations that the Democrats tend to favor so heavily.  For the US economy to flourish, you've got to make it possible for the smaller business to be able to compete against the larger ones, and part of what was needed to do that is smartly deregulating the economy by getting rid of the regulations that don't actually do anything but add operating costs to the smaller businesses that the larger ones (like the mega corporations) can just write off because they work at such a huge scale that the extra regulatory costs to them are effectively nil.

And yet, very few that aren't paying attention to what Trump is actually doing are going to understand that because the message the MSM wants to send is "ORANGE MAN BAD" because Trump is a Republican and not a Democrat.

15 hours ago, Amenhir said:

So... you're suggesting that maybe we need more information before we start jumping to conclusions?

But... I doubt you're going to put down your pitchfork and torch because you've got a lynching to goto.

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"He's cut back some stuff"...but doesn't name a single thing that he's cut back on and just how it had negatively affected small businesses in the first place...

It's all spin, spin spin in the Trump bubble, folks!

Meanwhile...

https://www.apnews.com/bd7b2b04b101440e9a5559b9501e24b4

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/11/appeals-court-rejects-trump-appeal-of-subpoena-for-tax-returns.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/senior-pompeo-aide-steps-down-amid-impeachment-inquiry-n1064866

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Several-national-security-officials-raised-alarms-14510135.php

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

And perhaps the entire point of his usage of Twitter is just to make a smoke screen to distract those that really don't matter in the big scheme of things, while Trump does other stuff?  It's been pretty effective in that regard.

Also, if you're talking about world "leaders" like the pansy to the north.... maybe they just need to grow up and also grow some balls?

It's all world leaders that he deals with on Twitter, him included. He isn't playing some 4D chess, that's just how he is, and he's like that in every aspect of his behaviour so it's not like his Twitter is somehow unrepresentative of him.

34 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

He's cut back on a lot of the green policies enacted under the Obama administration that were strangling small business.

He hit the EPA with budget cuts, but it doesn't seem to be anything to do with small businesses, just a hit to Obama's legacy by removing the Clean Power Plan.

He got rid of the Stream Protection Rule (another Obama regulation), something that was supposed to stop water sources getting polluted by overzealous mining activity. Not exactly small businesses saved by Super Drumpf.

He overturned a ban on certain dangerous (to both human health and wider ecologies) pesticides. Who initially backed those? Barracks Umbongo himself. Trump no likey Umbongo. Was that strangling small businesses? Doubtful.

He did the America First Energy Plan, but that wasn't relevant to small businesses considering it was mostly about exploiting coal reserves, when gas was already cheaper and coal has less of a demand. Trump claimed it was to help achieve more independence when it comes to energy sources, and yet he ignored renewable energy completely, so it seems more like another overturning of Obama policies again just because it was Obama.

I mean, I could keep going, but it's pretty much more of the same: Obama did something, Trump overturned it, but they're not really anything to do with helping small businesses. Helping big business like mining and oil, yeah that's quite often the case with the policies he overturned, but the most common theme so far seems to be because they were started by Baroque Whosane Osama-kun. How did he get so stuck in Orange Man's craw?

I'm more than happy to take a look over some others that were about helping small businesses if you've got any to refer to specifically.

34 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I know you see that as tantamount as blowing up the world...

We playing for overdramatics now?

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23 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Except the problem here is that the only thing the Democrats have is a noisy defense for the Biden's criminal activities - and there's no way to impeach Trump without Trump taking out Biden.

And one other point your empty headed "IMPEACH DER PREZ!" doesn't seem to grasp: Do you really want Mike Pence as the President?

I think Trump has done alright.

Then again, he hasn't turned the US into an Islamic colony, so I guess the EU has that "fault" to complain about.

There's no criminal activity on the part of Biden, at least none that's documented with proper evidence. He, as VP, requested that a corrupt prosecutor was removed from office, that is true. He was however only the mouthpiece there, as it was a request joined by many European countries.

Mike Pence.. no. He's worse in other respects. A creepy, homophobic, women-hating zealot. But that still does not mean that the impeachment proceedings should be halted. Trump committed an impeachable offence by using his office to (attempt to) extort the Ukrainian president into starting an investigation on Biden for his political gain. He has since committed several impeachable offences by stonewalling Congress in the execution of their legal tasks. Such behaviour should not be tolerated by any US citizen, no matter their party, as it degrades the office of president. The often asked question "how would Republicans have reacted if Barack Obama had done this" comes to mind and I think you know the answer.

Criminal activity like extortion by a US officer or employee (18 U.S. Code § 872), refusal to comply with a lawful subpoena (2 U.S. Code § 192), coercion into political activity of an employee of the federal government (18 U.S. Code § 610), or a government official, “in connection with any activity which is financed in whole or in part by loans or grants made by the United States, or any department or agency thereof, uses his official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President.”  (18 U.S. Code § 595), should never be tolerated. These aren't from my bias against Trump by the way, this is actual US penal code, applied objectively to the actions of Trump, backed by the documents he himself has released (call transcripts, text messages etc).

Europe does not want the US turned into an Islamic colony. I don't know where you got that idea, but we don't. We want normalcy again. A US President we can count on, not one who changes the direction of his administration based on what Fox News discussed in the past 15 minutes. We've been allies for decades, engaging in fair trade, cooperation on the world stage, forming a united front on many things. We've assisted the US in their wars and military actions in the Middle-East and in Africa. We just can't deal with Trump's stupid when it comes to international relations, like his trade war, or his veto in UN resolutions that would make rape a war crime (what the actual..). We want a president like Obama, Clinton, or the Bushes. Those with a level head, those that first and foremost know what they don't know and will pick experts to join their cabinet on those positions. Trump does not do that, he picks his billionaire donors and lobbyists who contributed heavily to his campaign. He picks loyalists over expertise, and that is dangerous for the US and for the world.

20 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

No, he's not.  He's been a far cry better than Obama did as he didn't completely screw up our health care system by demanding everyone get insurance... and then the insurance companies raised their rates and made the cheaper policies useless ($1k deductible, other stuff like that). And as much as you're going to argue that point, that's EXACTLY what happened to me after Obamacare went into effect, and why I didn't have health insurance for close to 8 years - as it was more cost effective to just take the penalty than pay for health insurance.  With the company I'm with now, even factoring the costs for some of the needed procedures, it was still the correct call as I'm still ahead financially compared to what I would have spent had I been on health insurance the entire time.  Yeah, the Canadians are going to point out that they have free insurance (but it's really not because their paying for it with their tax dollars).... yet why do so many Canadians come south of the border for access to the US health care system?1

I will agree that the Affordable Care Act was a bit of a dud, especially now that Republican state AGs, members of congress and the supreme court have gutted the most influential parts of it along party lines. But the US healthcare system was always fucked up.

When I compare it to my own country, the Netherlands, we are required by law to have health insurance. There's a basic package every company offers, with the medical care that is covered defined by law. The rates for this package vary between companies, but only a few euros. Additional packages are also available with all of them and a few even allow you to pick and choose exactly what additional cover you want. Children under 18 are automatically insured under your package, free of charge. Once they turn 18, they have to pay their premiums, but they are also (in 99% of cases) eligible for a return on those premiums (basically a government discount). Low income families are also eligible for this discount, with a good few paying absolutely nothing. Oh and we don't know pre-existing conditions. An insurance company is required by law to accept you and cannot charge extra for any medical history.

If I end up in the hospital tomorrow, maybe the intensive care unit, I pay next to nothing for it. There's a yearly cap on what I have to pay myself (for things covered by insurance) you see, which is 375 euros if I'm correct. Anything above that comes out of the pocket of the insurance company. And since everyone pays their premiums, that's just fine. So in a way, our system is much better than yours. If I need medication, I can get it, insurance company pays. I don't have to weigh paying for my healthcare against paying for my home. There is a downside to it though.. waiting lists.

This is where the US system of "if you can pay, you're getting treatment" is better. If you can afford the treatment or surgery needed, you can pretty much get it done within a few days, maybe a few weeks. That is probably also why Canadians come to the US. They can afford the treatment and they'll get it quicker. You won't see the lower income Canadians there though, they can't afford to do that. They'll wait.

20 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Trump is actually doing something about illegal immigration (despite the Democrats fighting him), which is going to help out the poorer communities in the country as it makes it harder for using illegals and paying them under the table with the sword of Damocles dangling over their head of "We'll just call ICE on you" for non-compliance.  Then there's also a ton of sex-trafficking that occurs with illegal immigration... that is, unless you like to commit acts of violence against women and rape them after you pay your conscious money.  Prostitution needs to go, as it is heavily tied with sex trafficking.  Those males that support that oppressive industry need to be emasculated for their part in this oppression.

Okay, Immigration is a problem in the US. There's 4 ways of getting into the US: family, work, luck and bad luck. Trump often claims (as do many of his defenders in Congress and on Fox News) that it's all illegal.

Family: Trump's a hypocrite here, and completely uninformed too. He has no problem rushing his in-laws through what he calls "CHAIN MIGRATION" (the family category). For those without political pull, depending on country, it can take years or even decades to get in through family based migration. Mexican? Try waiting 30 years for your green card (if approved). Indian? Try waiting 60 years. There's limits on how many people can get a green card per country per year.

Work: You can get into the US on a work visa. Depending on which type, that visa can last a few months to a year. Your employer has to sponsor you though and if your employer terminates your employment, you're out again. Oh and once every year you have to go back to the US embassy in your home country to extend it. You might get a green card eventually, you might not. Again, based on country it can be hit and miss. Unless of course, you have political pull and can get your model wife in on a genius visa. Wonder what warranted that, because modelling is not one of the categories for that visa. Oh and.. Trump loves this category when it comes to his hotel/resort employees, even though he isn't much bothered if they don't have one: even cheaper.

Good luck: The lottery. People can apply for this and if approved after a thorough screening, a certain number of people (again, limited by country) can get randomly selected by a computer and they will get a green card. The limits per country are across categories though, so it's a really low chance depending on where you're from. I might get one within a few years, someone from Mexico or India has more chance of being struck by lightning, while winning the jackpot two lotteries on the same day.

Bad luck: This is your "shit has hit the fan" category. People fleeing from natural disasters and extremely hostile surroundings and what have you. Trump has all but eliminated this category, lowering the amount of admissions for this category from 110000 per year under Obama to almost 0 (he's considering it). This is the refugee category. These are the people who need help. Those for which the words inscribed on the statue of liberty are, the ones that made America call itself the land of the free:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

20 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Although, Trump is far from perfect (and I imagine all of us would agree that he's an asshole), but he's a damn sight better than the cluster that HRC's presidency would have been (assuming she didn't die in office as she was looking rather sickly).  Trump's also a better candidate than Sanders (he's lost it), Biden (he's corrupt), or Warren (she's just incompetent) as the news media has decided that those three are going to be the Democratic candidate as (IMO) Yang or Gabbard would have made a better all-around candidate... but they aren't as in-bed with the media as the other three.  Trump's going to troll his way to re-electoin, as the problem with impeachment is that most of the moderate Democrats are #WalkAway ... which is going to create an opening Trump will capitalize on, especially since he loves throwing out honeypots.

Well he sure is an asshole, and then some. And I agree that Hillary was the reason Trump won. The Dems could have put pretty much anyone but Hillary on the ballot and it would have been a landslide. Many Democratic-leaning voters and Independents stayed home because they didn't want Hillary. Many Republican voters who despised Trump did too. I doubt the last category would have turned up for Bernie, but a more moderate Dem candidate might have gotten their vote too.

The Democratic party owes the Trump presidency to their own poor choice, with a little help of partisan gerrymandering by the Republicans.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

It's all world leaders that he deals with on Twitter, him included. He isn't playing some 4D chess, that's just how he is, and he's like that in every aspect of his behaviour so it's not like his Twitter is somehow unrepresentative of him.

And yet, he seems to keep making honeypots that the Democrats keep walking right into.

It's akin to tying a piece of bacon onto a dog's tail and watching it spin for the lulz.

1 hour ago, Doro said:

He hit the EPA with budget cuts, but it doesn't seem to be anything to do with small businesses, just a hit to Obama's legacy by removing the Clean Power Plan.

And that was the entire problem because clean energy (like wind and solar) isn't sustainable as solar panels aren't nearly as power efficient, and they lead to other problems (such as massive swings in available power on the grid).

That entire initiative only works because the Democrats have been shoving it down our throats at the expense of the US mining industry, which has crippled Colorado's mining economy, among other states..

1 hour ago, Doro said:

He got rid of the Stream Protection Rule (another Obama regulation), something that was supposed to stop water sources getting polluted by overzealous mining activity. Not exactly small businesses saved by Super Drumpf.

Most of those protection rules didn't actually do anything because the risk was less than you winning the lotto IIRC.

Why legislate out an improbable risk?

1 hour ago, Doro said:

He overturned a ban on certain dangerous (to both human health and wider ecologies) pesticides. Who initially backed those? Barracks Umbongo himself. Trump no likey Umbongo. Was that strangling small businesses? Doubtful.

Again, the ban on the chemicals was because they hyped up the actual threat of what they can do, and most of those chemicals aren't nearly as deadly as you are making them out to be.

1 hour ago, Doro said:

He did the America First Energy Plan, but that wasn't relevant to small businesses considering it was mostly about exploiting coal reserves, when gas was already cheaper and coal has less of a demand. Trump claimed it was to help achieve more independence when it comes to energy sources, and yet he ignored renewable energy completely, so it seems more like another overturning of Obama policies again just because it was Obama.

It's because renewable energy is (with the exception of Hydro) not actually economically viable because the technology is better memed than implemented.  If we were serious about moving away from coal, we would be talking about nuclear power, and then figuring out how to process the nuclear waste into fuel for another reactor type, and keep making more nuclear reactors so that the final one in the chain produced lead.  That solves the nuclear waste problem, and generates a crapton of power that is actually really clean.

I mean, there's a reason why enviros are saying this:

1 hour ago, Doro said:

I mean, I could keep going, but it's pretty much more of the same: Obama did something, Trump overturned it, but they're not really anything to do with helping small businesses.

Which shows how little you actually know of what you speak.

1 hour ago, Doro said:

Helping big business like mining and oil, yeah that's quite often the case with the policies he overturned, but the most common theme so far seems to be because they were started by Baroque Whosane Osama-kun.

You're ignoring the impact that the smaller mining and oil operations (that once fueled the Colorado economy).  And that's also a strategic weakness for the US that needs fixing.  Then again, I'm not from an island that basically can't do anything without importing raw materials, so I guess that'd explain why you have such a screwed up view of the economy.

1 hour ago, Doro said:

We playing for overdramatics now?

So you're saying this take is actually rational and not laughably hyperbolic?

On 10/1/2019 at 12:27 PM, Doro said:

That all needs to be looked at now to put in place buffers for the effects while a solution is developed, otherwise the US will be a pretty empty wasteland with massive megacities on the coasts a la Judge Dredd.

7 minutes ago, MueR said:

There's no criminal activity on the part of Biden, at least none that's documented with proper evidence. He, as VP, requested that a corrupt prosecutor was removed from office, that is true. He was however only the mouthpiece there, as it was a request joined by many European countries.

if this is how you're opening this giant wall of text, then I don't need to read it to know that your head is clearly in the sand.

I mean https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html starts with:

Quote

WASHINGTON — It was a foreign policy role Joseph R. Biden Jr. enthusiastically embraced during his vice presidency: browbeating Ukraine’s notoriously corrupt government to clean up its act. And one of his most memorable performances came on a trip to Kiev in March 2016, when he threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine’s leaders did not dismiss the country’s top prosecutor, who had been accused of turning a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite.

If you're saying that the above is not criminal activity, there is little we can discuss because you are essentially saying the sky is yellow - which means I don't need to spend time reading the rest of your insane ramblings.

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Well, it's no secret that Trump hates Obama with a passion. He started the whole bither nonsense and he's gone out of his way to reverse everything Obama did, regardless of what it was. 

With regards to the EPA, he's just an ignorant idiot who denies climate change and panders to his big business friends. He doesn't give a crap about coal miners, because if he did, he would subsidise plans to train them into different jobs. He cares about coal because his wealthy donors are in that sector.

I'll agree that nuclear power is a viable alternative too. However, we should not rule out solar and wind. Solar is certainly viable and can make certain houses energy neutral or even energy negative (meaning they supply others). It depends on the location, as does wind. 

----

Perhaps you should read it anyway. I think I make some fair points

11 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

if this is how you're opening this giant wall of text, then I don't need to read it to know that your head is clearly in the sand.

I mean https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/politics/biden-son-ukraine.html starts with:

If you're saying that the above is not criminal activity, there is little we can discuss because you are essentially saying the sky is yellow - which means I don't need to spend time reading the rest of your insane ramblings.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c-span-video-joe-biden-ukraine/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/oct/11/donald-trump/trump-ad-misleads-about-biden-ukraine-and-prosecut/

https://www.factcheck.org/2019/10/fact-trump-tv-ad-misleads-on-biden-and-ukraine/

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor/3785620002/

So far, all there is is Donald's claims that something was corrupt. Ukraine is investigating (again), even though former prosecutors there say there's nothing wrong. If they do find he did something wrong, I'll happily admit I was wrong. Until that time, there's just no evidence. Only that Biden told Ukraine, by joint agreement with many western nations and the EU, that the prosecutor was not doing his job. This was not a Biden thing, this was a world politics thing.

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5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

*snip*

That's a lot of brushing aside considering their context. You said Trump overturned a lot of green policies for small business. I provided some that didn't help small businesses at all, and gave you the opportunity to provide your own that did. Just saying "yeah well they didn't really matter" isn't doing much more than suggesting the so-called "positive" changes Trump has made haven't really mattered in return.

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Which shows how little you actually know of what you speak.

And you've yet to actually provide anything that either backs up what you've been claiming or disproves what I've said. It's pretty easy to just keep talking vaguely off the top of your head but it doesn't actually back up what you've said.

5 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So you're saying this take is actually rational and not laughably hyperbolic?

It was intentional hyperbole to drive home the point that plans need to be put into place now to mitigate until future solutions arise. How is it you can invent so much nuance from what Trump says, but take everyone else so literally?

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More fun stuff with Biden:

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/617936.html

5 minutes ago, Doro said:

That's a lot of brushing aside considering their context. You said Trump overturned a lot of green policies for small business. I provided some that didn't help small businesses at all, and gave you the opportunity to provide your own that did. Just saying "yeah well they didn't really matter" isn't doing much more than suggesting the so-called "positive" changes Trump has made haven't really mattered in return.

So what's your actual point?

5 minutes ago, Doro said:

And you've yet to actually provide anything that either backs up what you've been claiming or disproves what I've said. It's pretty easy to just keep talking vaguely off the top of your head but it doesn't actually back up what you've said.

I speak of what I have seen, and other stuff from the past talking to miners and what not, and a lot of what shut them down was the EPA regulations that make it nigh impossible for the small man to operate.

Do you want me to go dig around the internet that backs up personal experience?

5 minutes ago, Doro said:

It was intentional hyperbole to drive home the point that plans need to be put into place now to mitigate until future solutions arise. How is it you can invent so much nuance from what Trump says, but take everyone else so literally?

Your point of view is so grossly out of touch with reality there's little to do other than point and laugh at it.

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3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So what's your actual point?

So far, it's been that Trump hasn't actually done anything positive for the US. It also now includes that overturning a bunch of environmental regulations and plans weren't for the sake of small businesses, as you say as your example of a positive Trump has done.

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I speak of what I have seen, and other stuff from the past talking to miners and what not, and a lot of what shut them down was the EPA regulations that make it nigh impossible for the small man to operate.

Do you want me to go dig around the internet that backs up personal experience?

Well, yeah. If your anecdotal evidence is actually based on Trump's decisions, there should be some sort of objective evidence you could provide in regards to those decisions at the very least. These decisions aren't "off the books", so to speak.

3 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Your point of view is so grossly out of touch with reality there's little to do other than point and laugh at it.

Is this where we're at now? Back to you just making up insults because someone disagreed with you?

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26 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

 

Please, re-read my wall of text (skip the biden part if you will) and respond.

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15 minutes ago, MueR said:

So far, all there is is Donald's claims that something was corrupt. Ukraine is investigating (again), even though former prosecutors there say there's nothing wrong. If they do find he did something wrong, I'll happily admit I was wrong. Until that time, there's just no evidence. 

Even if Biden is found guilty of...something, it shouldn't be used as a shield against Trump and his wrong doings.  It seems like every time Trump fucks up, his supporters--knowing they don't have any ground to stand on--immediately pivot to, "yeah, but..."

But nothing.  It's all deflection.  

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Just now, Papi said:

Even if Biden is found guilty of...something, it shouldn't be used as a shield against Trump and his wrong doings.  It seems like every time Trump fucks up, his supporters--knowing they don't have any ground to stand on--immediately pivot to, "yeah, but..."

But nothing.  It's all deflection.  

This. Very much this. Authoritarian tactics, the "Whataboutism". What about Benghazi, what about Hillary's emails (what about the Ivanka and Jared using private servers), etc. Deflect deflect deflect.

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Okay, moderator time here.. this topic is veering off the US Elections and moving into a Trump topic. Either I split off the Trump discussion to a new topic, or we go back on topic and drop the Trump/Ukraine/whatever talk. Any objections to the first?

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16 minutes ago, MueR said:

Okay, moderator time here.. this topic is veering off the US Elections and moving into a Trump topic. Either I split off the Trump discussion to a new topic, or we go back on topic and drop the Trump/Ukraine/whatever talk. Any objections to the first?

I understand that abortion or Polish nazis are OT but to separate US elections from Trump... A bit tough... ;) 

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2 minutes ago, Jedy2 said:

I understand that abortion or Polish nazis are OT but to separate US elections from Trump... A bit tough... ;) 

Well, the discussion about Trump's impeachment proceedings...

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5 minutes ago, MueR said:

Well, the discussion about Trump's impeachment proceedings...

Trump getting impeached might impact the elections a fair bit. Even not getting impeached might be telling. But I only really say to keep it in one for the sake of containment.

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Not to add fuel to the fire, but...

https://www.newsweek.com/us-troops-syria-turkey-1464727

"Newsweek has learned through both an Iraqi Kurdish intelligence official and the senior Pentagon official that Special Forces operating on Mashtenour hill in the majority-Kurdish city of Kobani fell under artillery fire from Turkish forces conducting their so-called "Operation Peace Spring" against Kurdish fighters backed by the U.S. but considered terrorist organizations by Turkey."

 

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10 hours ago, Doro said:

How did he get so stuck in Orange Man's craw?

Casual racism.  When Obama had the audacity to make fun of him at the 2011 WH correspondents dinner it was on.  Trump played a big role in the birther conspiracy.  He's now in a position of power, and Mitch McConnell is telling him what to think.   Their ultimate goal is to erase any legacy Obama might have.  What I don't understand is how millions of regular people with oftentimes low paying jobs would ever believe that a "billionaire" and his billionaire buddies would ever give a shit about them.  This train wreck of a presidency is going to go down in history as the most corrupt and worthless thing to ever be inflicted upon the US.  

By the next election his cronies, and enablers will turn on him.  He demands loyalty, but does not reciprocate.  He will throw anyone under the bus if he thinks it will bail him out.  His legacy will be courts filled with unqualified judges, and all but giving the next President the Nobel Prize for not being Trump.

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A couple of things jumped out as I skimmed through the lastest walls of text:

14 hours ago, MueR said:

A creepy, homophobic, women-hating zealot

There's actually no evidence for this at all. It's a myth that Pence supported gay conversion therapy. Even far far left snopes admits it's a "Mixture"

14 hours ago, MueR said:

his veto in UN resolutions that would make rape a war crime (what the actual..)

If you looked into this instead of blindly swallowing fake news, you'd know the veto was threatened because the resolution had pro-abortion language attached to it. This is a particularly common slimy political tactic of proposing X (something no one would rightly oppose) but attaching Y (something controversial) and then claiming anyone who objects to Y is against X. 

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3 hours ago, Bohemond said:

There's actually no evidence for this at all. It's a myth that Pence supported gay conversion therapy. Even far far left snopes admits it's a "Mixture"

If you looked into this instead of blindly swallowing fake news, you'd know the veto was threatened because the resolution had pro-abortion language attached to it. This is a particularly common slimy political tactic of proposing X (something no one would rightly oppose) but attaching Y (something controversial) and then claiming anyone who objects to Y is against X. 

While he never publicly said: "I support conversion therapy", when he was running for Congress he did call for state funding for "institutions" working to enable people to "change their sexual behavior."  So yeah...

And by pro-abortion (sigh), I assume you are referring to language in the resolution that mentioned family planning clinics...because heaven forbid a woman who was raped during wartime not have options as to whether or not she has to carry her rapists child to term.  

 

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