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Doro

US Elections 2020

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1 hour ago, Papi said:

I think the only reason Trump allows Giuliani to go on TV is because his incoherent rambling muddies the water so much no one know what's going on by the end of it.  He could get caught in an outright lie in the middle of an interview (which, he has) and it doesn't move the needle one way or the other.

I honestly have't been paying attention to the Ukraine thing (just skimming a couple of articles), so I really need more info on that.  That said, from what I have skimmed through, the cursory read is that it's a whole bunch of Trump haters going after Trump (again), so I'm not likely to put much attention into something that will likely be forgotten in a month's time.

1 hour ago, Papi said:

I think, at this point, people are just exhausted with all the bullshit (from both sides)

On this point we agree.  One of the things that is interesting about Trump is that he's actually one of the most accessible Presidents as he's willing to talk to anyone that (politely) sticks a microphone in his face.

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27 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I honestly have't been paying attention to the Ukraine thing (just skimming a couple of articles), so I really need more info on that.  That said, from what I have skimmed through, the cursory read is that it's a whole bunch of Trump haters going after Trump (again), so I'm not likely to put much attention into something that will likely be forgotten in a month's time.

The allegation is that Trump order $400 million of military aid to be withheld unless Ukraine investigated Joe Biden and his son.  Trump acknowledged that aid was frozen.

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2 hours ago, Papi said:

I agree, let's wait for the data instead of jumping to conclusions and doing:

28 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

Democrats to launch Trump impeachment inquiry

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49814927

Jumping to conclusions and instead of citing Trump/Russia for impeachment, it's now Trump/Ukraine...  Which leads me to believe that there's nothing here.... like the results of the Trump/Russia conspiracy theory.

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I dont think they would do this if there was nothing, that would just play into Trumps hands.  Also if the do impeach Trump we will get Pence as President and I believe he is actually a worse person than Trump

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9 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

I dont think they would do this if there was nothing, that would just play into Trumps hands.  Also if the do impeach Trump we will get Pence as President and I believe he is actually a worse person than Trump

Only if the Senate votes to remove him from office.  Impeachment is a political process, then it goes to the Senate.  It won't really matter.  He's got his base firmly believing that all evidence presented against him is going to be lies.  They don't want to hear the truth, they already know it.  Even if they had video/audio of him breaking the law, they wouldn't care.

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14 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

I dont think they would do this if there was nothing, that would just play into Trumps hands.  Also if the do impeach Trump we will get Pence as President and I believe he is actually a worse person than Trump

You need to go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

2 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

Only if the Senate votes to remove him from office.

It's held by Republicans, so this is not going to go anywhere.

2 minutes ago, Amenhir said:

He's got his base firmly believing that all evidence presented against him is going to be lies.

Show me the hard data... NOT the soundbite "news" articles.

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17 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

I agree, let's wait for the data instead of jumping to conclusions and doing:

Jumping to conclusions and instead of citing Trump/Russia for impeachment, it's now Trump/Ukraine...  Which leads me to believe that there's nothing here.... like the results of the Trump/Russia conspiracy theory.

It's not a conspiracy theory that Russia interfered in our election in order to get Trump elected.  Many organizations have shown that to be the case.  They said that the evidence was not sufficient as to rise the level of conspiracy.  However, obstruction of justice is an entirely different matter.  Allow me to also cut you off before you say "can't be obstruction if there is no crime."  Obstruction is the crime.  It doesn't matter if you're not the one being investigated, if you obstruct an investigation, you're guilty of obstruction.

Just now, Almagnus1 said:

You need to go read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

It's held by Republicans, so this is not going to go anywhere.

Show me the hard data... NOT the soundbite "news" articles.

So you're saying that when they show irrefutable evidence that Trump violated several laws, you will denounce him?

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Just now, Amenhir said:

It's not a conspiracy theory that Russia interfered in our election in order to get Trump elected.

Yes it is, show me the ACTUAL data that proves otherwise.

Just now, Amenhir said:

Many organizations have shown that to be the case. 

News media organizations don't count.

Just now, Amenhir said:

They said that the evidence was not sufficient as to rise the level of conspiracy.

In otherwords, there was no conspiracy, but this is worded to insinuate there was one.  How gullible are you?

Just now, Amenhir said:

However, obstruction of justice is an entirely different matter.

There's no proof of this.

Just now, Amenhir said:

Obstruction is the crime.

A crime has to be provable in a court of law.  No conviction = no crime because (as shocking as this may sound) you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Just now, Amenhir said:

It doesn't matter if you're not the one being investigated, if you obstruct an investigation, you're guilty of obstruction.

So let's talk about what Bill Clinton did with the Lewinski investigation, or how about Hillary deleting the email server so she would skate free?

It's only obstruction when a Republican does it... 

---

Also, Biden did almost the exact same thing that Trump is accused of five years ago - and nobody batted an eye.  See https://www.apnews.com/9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c

So again, it's OK when Democrats do things, but if a Republican does the same thing they must be burned at the stake for their heresy.

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45 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

So again, it's OK when Democrats do things, but if a Republican does the same thing they must be burned at the stake for their heresy.

No, it isn't ok. You citing a tit for tat scenario is just stupid. That is what children do. If the past allegations weren't followed thru to their conclusion, then who is to blame?

This just shows how desperate some people are to win at any cost. At some point the hammer needs to make a striking blow. This I truly believe. The problem is all you sideways fuckers don't want it to be one of your own, thus the cycle becomes endless.

If the extremes on both of our political spectrum were classified as a homogeneous living person, It would be the top number one sociopath in America.

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12 minutes ago, Splay said:

This just shows how desperate some people are to win at any cost. At some point the hammer needs to make a striking blow. This I truly believe. The problem is all you sideways fuckers don't want it to be one of your own, thus the cycle becomes endless.

Except.... that's not how it plays out.

For example, please explain how Harvey Weinstein isn't convicted of sexual assault for his "casting couch".  The Democrats refuse to police their own, and get defensive of them when it's pointed out by the Republicans.  The Republicans have (for the most part) largely cleaned house and when one can be shown to have done something criminal, most Republicans are going to look at that and go "you're a moron, you deserve it".

Show me something that's actual evidence of wrong doing, and it will persuade me.  That said, if I can poke holes in what's being said (like almost everything you scrubs have tried to throw against Trump), I'm going to dismiss it because it's likely BS and the posters are not in a rational state of mind.

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2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Yes it is, show me the ACTUAL data that proves otherwise.

 

Unbelievable.  For fucks sake Al, if you aren't even going to accept actual truths...you're hopeless.

The Mueller Report found that the Russian government "interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion" and "violated U.S. criminal law".  The report relayed two methods by which Russia attempted to influence the election one of which included a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

That is in the fucking report. It fucking happened.  There is no conspiracy when it comes to this actual FACT.

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

So again, it's OK when Democrats do things, but if a Republican does the same thing they must be burned at the stake for their heresy.

No, it's not.  Not one single person here has said that.  Not one.

 

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5 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Yes it is, show me the ACTUAL data that proves otherwise.

News media organizations don't count.

In otherwords, there was no conspiracy, but this is worded to insinuate there was one.  How gullible are you?

There's no proof of this.

A crime has to be provable in a court of law.  No conviction = no crime because (as shocking as this may sound) you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

So let's talk about what Bill Clinton did with the Lewinski investigation, or how about Hillary deleting the email server so she would skate free?

It's only obstruction when a Republican does it... 

---

Also, Biden did almost the exact same thing that Trump is accused of five years ago - and nobody batted an eye.  See https://www.apnews.com/9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c

So again, it's OK when Democrats do things, but if a Republican does the same thing they must be burned at the stake for their heresy.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Muelller-Report-Redacted-Vol-I-Released-04.18.2019-Word-Searchable.-Reduced-Size.pdf  Here you go tard monkey.

Let me highlight the important part.   "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion. Evidence of Russian government operations began to surface in mid-2016. In June, the Democratic National Committee and its cyber response team publicly announced that Russian hackers had compromised its computer network. Releases of hacked materials-hacks that public reporting soon attributed to the Russian government-began that same month. Additional releases followed in July through the organization WikiLeaks, with further releases in October and November."

Man you are a straight up moron.  OBSTRUCTION IS THE CRIME.  If my best friend is being investigated, and he's innocent, but during that investigation I do anything to interfere, I have committed obstruction of justice.  In what world does no conviction = no crime?  There are thousands of people running around who committed crimes, went to court, but were not convicted.  You know, like all those people that got immunity for turning state's evidence.  Furthermore, but what abouts do not excuse the crimes of someone else.  You're a child if you think so.  That doesn't even fly when you tell your mom, "but my brother did this."  Good lord, your idiocy is fucking depressing.  Go crawl back in your bunker with your cum stained maga hats and shut the fuck up.

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8 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

For example, please explain how Harvey Weinstein isn't convicted of sexual assault for his "casting couch".

I thought his trial was early next year because he keeps getting more legit accusations against him?

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It's really interesting to watch reactions on all this .

So when USA interferes in elections of pretty much every single country in the world ( yes " friendly " countries included )  ... nobody bats an eye .

When someone allegedly tries to do the same .... THEY ARE ATTACKING OUR DEMOCRACY .

I mean double standards supreme .

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8 hours ago, Papi said:

Unbelievable.  For fucks sake Al, if you aren't even going to accept actual truths...you're hopeless.

No, I'm being dismissive of propaganda that is basically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

8 hours ago, Papi said:

The Mueller Report found that the Russian government "interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion" and "violated U.S. criminal law".  The report relayed two methods by which Russia attempted to influence the election one of which included a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

And that's all it mentioned, it DID NOT connect it to Trump.  The conspiracy is that Trump somehow got a silver bullet from Russia, and Russia interfered in the election process in just the right way for Trump to get elected...  Which is a fairy tale people tell themselves when they suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome and can't admit Trump legitly won the election, so they tell themselves it was Russia's fault because they're too weak to accept the reality of the situation.  And quite honestly, that describes you and Amenhir perfectly.

8 hours ago, Papi said:

That is in the fucking report. It fucking happened.  There is no conspiracy when it comes to this actual FACT.

No, it's not.  Not one single person here has said that.  Not one.

And the report doesn't say what you think it does. 

GO READ THE DAMNED THING.

4 hours ago, Amenhir said:

Let me highlight the important part.   "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion. Evidence of Russian government operations began to surface in mid-2016. In June, the Democratic National Committee and its cyber response team publicly announced that Russian hackers had compromised its computer network. Releases of hacked materials-hacks that public reporting soon attributed to the Russian government-began that same month. Additional releases followed in July through the organization WikiLeaks, with further releases in October and November."

Ok, so all that's really saying is that the DNC got hacked... and then the info was dumped onto WikiLeaks.

Hacking the DNC doesn't mean you are trying to get Trump elected, as it's entirely plausible that the Russians were just screwing with the Democrats and that's about as far as it goes.  I mean, they do like to troll, so this can easily be construed as trolling.

If that's the best you can do, it means you actually don't have proof - just a desire to burn Trump down because he beat HRC.  And if that's your motivation, at least be honest about it.

 

8 minutes ago, Doro said:

I thought his trial was early next year because he keeps getting more legit accusations against him?

From what I recall of it, he never charged, but that may not be correct.  Either way, it got swept under the rug because we can't have a Democrat acting indecent, now can we?

1 minute ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

It's really interesting to watch reactions on all this .

So when USA interferes in elections of pretty much every single country in the world ( yes " friendly " countries included )  ... nobody bats an eye .

When someone allegedly tries to do the same .... THEY ARE ATTACKING OUR DEMOCRACY .

That's why I'm looking at the Russia thing going "well, we had it coming".

1 minute ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

I mean double standards supreme .

That's the Democratic modus operandi - rules for thee but not for me.

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15 minutes ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

It's really interesting to watch reactions on all this .

So when USA interferes in elections of pretty much every single country in the world ( yes " friendly " countries included )  ... nobody bats an eye .

When someone allegedly tries to do the same .... THEY ARE ATTACKING OUR DEMOCRACY .

I mean double standards supreme .

Agreed. The US has a strong (and ongoing) history of not just influencing elections but also physically invading countries to put the people they want into power, but that's all good. A group of hackers (which US media decided was synonymous with the Russian government) did a shitty phishing scam, and Putin apparently paid for some Facebook adverts (clearly some Manchurian Candidate level of brainwashing right there!), and that was all way too much. I wonder if we'd have the same reaction if it had been Clinton he'd preferred.

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The mental gymnastics going on in this thread is hilarious.

Apparently, not liking the fact that a foreign adversarial entity deliberately influenced a general election with preference for a particular candidate somehow translates into "it's perfectly fine that we have done the same thing ourselves."  Gimme a fucking break.

40 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

And that's all it mentioned...

And that is enough for anyone who doesn't have his head planted squarely up their own ass.

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4 hours ago, ZaklanoSrce said:

It's really interesting to watch reactions on all this .

So when USA interferes in elections of pretty much every single country in the world ( yes " friendly " countries included )  ... nobody bats an eye .

When someone allegedly tries to do the same .... THEY ARE ATTACKING OUR DEMOCRACY .

I mean double standards supreme .

Nothing new here. European countries have been doing much the same for 1,000 years. This is the world's power struggle and has been going on since time in memory. It's what Geopolitics is about. It's not a double standard. It is the standard.

The US hasn't annexed a Crimea type, physical acquisition in a long time and when the US could have, they didn't. After, WWII the US could have essentially claimed near half the world, but didn't. There is no better absolute way to control a countries election than claiming that countries physical property.

So, while what you claim has some truth, its hardly the total of reality.

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6 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Ok, so all that's really saying is that the DNC got hacked... and then the info was dumped onto WikiLeaks.

Hacking the DNC doesn't mean you are trying to get Trump elected, as it's entirely plausible that the Russians were just screwing with the Democrats and that's about as far as it goes.  I mean, they do like to troll, so this can easily be construed as trolling.

If that's the best you can do, it means you actually don't have proof - just a desire to burn Trump down because he beat HRC.  And if that's your motivation, at least be honest about it.

 

 

More for your reading displeasure... "As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel's investigation established that Russia interfere~ in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Second, a Russian intelligence service conducted computer-intrusion operations against entities, employees, and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign and then released stolen documents. The investigation also identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome,"  It continues to say that they couldn't state that the Trump campaign's activities rose to the level of conspiracy, which I already conceded earlier.  It still doesn't change the fact that Russia interfered with the intent or hopes of helping Trump get elected.  The report later goes on to lay out 10 instances of obstruction of justice, which is why the Mueller report did not exonerate the President of any wrong doing on that front.  

As far as HRC is concerned, I couldn't give a rat's ass about her.  She was a terrible candidate and what she and the DNC did to Bernie Sanders was a travesty.  However, that does not change the fact that Trump turned out to be far worse than most peopled expected.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt.  I assumed, stupidly, that the VP and those surrounding the President would temper his rhetoric and we would have a fairly benign four years or so.  Benign save for Republicans desire to tank the economy every time they get elected.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étienne_de_La_Boétie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_on_Voluntary_Servitude


Ænema

Some say the end is near
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon
Certainly hope we will
I sure could use a vacation from
This bullshit three ring circus sideshow

Of freaks here in this hopeless fucking hole we call L.A.  
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away
Any fucking time, any fucking day
Learn to swim, see you down in Arizona Bay

Fret for your figure and fret for your latte and
Fret for your lawsuit and fret for your hairpiece and
Fret for your Prozac and fret for your pilot and
Fret for your contract and fret for your car
It's a bullshit three ring circus sideshow

Of freaks here in this hopeless fucking hole we call L.A.  
The only way to fix it is to flush it all away
Any fucking time, any fucking day
Learn to swim, see you down in Arizona Bay

Some say a comet will fall from the sky
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves
Followed by fault lines that cannot sit still
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dipshits
And some say the end is near
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon
I certainly hope we will
I sure could use a vacation from this
Stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit
One great big festering neon distraction
I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
'Cause Mom's gonna fix it all soon
Mom's coming 'round to put it back the way it ought to be

Learn to swim

Fuck L. Ron Hubbard, and fuck all his clones
Fuck all these gun-toting hip gangster wannabes
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
Yeah, fuck retro anything, fuck your tattoos
Fuck all you junkies, and fuck your short memory
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
Learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim, learn to swim
Yeah, fuck smiley glad-hands with hidden agendas
Fuck these dysfunctional insecure actresses
Learn to swim, learn to swim

'Cause I'm praying for rain
I'm praying for tidal waves
I want to see the ground give way
I want to watch it all go down
Mom, please flush it all away
I want to see it go right in and down
I want to watch it go right in
Watch you flush it all away

Yeah, time to bring it down again
Yeah, don't just call me pessimist
Try and read between the lines
And I can't imagine why you wouldn't
Welcome any change, my friend
I want to see it come down
Bring it down
Suck it down
Flush it down

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1 hour ago, Amenhir said:

However, that does not change the fact that Trump turned out to be far worse than most peopled expected.

Pretty much. It's his near constant verbal diarrhoea that's dropping him in it all the time. He just rambles fucking nonsense whenever someone asks him a question, it's like he doesn't know that he has to stop once it's been answered and feels the need to keep going with some bullshit praising of something he's supposedly done that's completely unconnected. He can't just say when he's unsure or something, he has to wrap that up with some ego massaging.

Those new transcripts are more of the same, just babbling and trying to puff himself up. He's called a foreign president to "congratulate" them and pretty much acted like he was calling up some random staff member to get them to pop to the shops for him for bread and milk. Ukraine at the US's beck and call, then, if Trump feels he can ring them up and go "yeah check out who was part of the investigation and find dirt on political rivals for me, thanks babe, Trump out".

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

Pretty much. It's his near constant verbal diarrhoea that's dropping him in it all the time. He just rambles fucking nonsense whenever someone asks him a question, it's like he doesn't know that he has to stop once it's been answered and feels the need to keep going with some bullshit praising of something he's supposedly done that's completely unconnected. He can't just say when he's unsure or something, he has to wrap that up with some ego massaging.

Those new transcripts are more of the same, just babbling and trying to puff himself up. He's called a foreign president to "congratulate" them and pretty much acted like he was calling up some random staff member to get them to pop to the shops for him for bread and milk. Ukraine at the US's beck and call, then, if Trump feels he can ring them up and go "yeah check out who was part of the investigation and find dirt on political rivals for me, thanks babe, Trump out".

It's pretty damning to withhold foreign aid and then call up the President of that country and ask them to investigate your political rival.  Trump is so cocksure that he released that transcript thinking it would clear him.  Unfortunately for him it doesn't paint a pretty picture.  Allow me to quote a recent article I read on this subject.  It's a lengthy bit of text so I apologize.

"Even if Trump hadn't openly asked Zelensky to look into Biden and instead only suggested that he had heard rumors of corruption regarding the Bidens and Ukraine, this call would be problematic. Because the United States is a global superpower which was, at that moment, withholding loan money from Ukraine -- a fact that the newly elected president of said country would be intimately aware of. That Trump just came out and asked for Zelensky to investigate the Bidens -- after reminding him several times of how much the US did for Ukraine!!!! -- is something very close to the textbook definition of a quid pro quo.

Take it out of the context of politics. Let's say you are a small business owner who has seen an uptick in business thanks to a series of referrals coming to you via a much larger company. And the CEO of that much larger company calls you and says something like "We are doing a lot of good for your bottom line, right? More than you are doing for us. So, hey, our biggest competitor is apparently doing some pretty nasty things with their workers. You should really look into that."

Now the larger company CEO didn't come out and say, "Hey, do this muckraking of our main competitor or else your pipeline gets cut off by us," right? But unless your brain stem has somehow disconnected from your brain, you know exactly what is being asked here. Do this, or else."

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