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9 hours ago, cossieuk said:

Even in warmer climates it is still spreading, just look at Australia where temperatures are in the mid 20 C range.

Also even if the warmer weather does help, the southern hemisphere is heading towards winter.     

Yep, which sucks for them... thankfully there's not THAT much of the global population in the southern hemisphere... as most of it is either around the equator or in the norther hemisphere.

Edited by Doro
Fixing derail
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On 3/14/2020 at 6:36 AM, cossieuk said:

The head immunity idea is utter bullshit, it will lead to many unnecessary deaths.  The aim for 60% herd immunity, with a death rate of 0.7% (this is the rate seen in South Korea) will lead to around a quarter of a million deaths in the UK.  That is unacceptable as a policy for any government

 

Dutch government is going for this strategy. All my family is there. I am not pleased (actually, I am f*cking angry). It's an odd idea to get herd immunity from a virus. Usually herd immunity has to do with immunizations. Shocking that many, many Dutch citizens bought into what the Dutch PM said last night. He, of course, didn't mention what the death rate can be, he only mentioned '60% is what we need, and then the vulnerable will be protected'. If people already become immune after having been ill, it is not known for how long they possibly can be immune. There are also data from China that show that people recovered, then tested positive again, but without the symptoms.

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On 3/14/2020 at 6:32 PM, Doro said:

Image result for coronavirus spread graph by country

Here's the updated chart, a little under a week later:

A graphic with no description

I'm not a fan of the logarithmic scale they've used, it massively impacts the perception of the worse off countries to make them look like they're "levelling off", but still.

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South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong and Singapore ought to be the countries people look to for strategies for fighting the virus, imo.

Test, track and trace. This avoids the worst parts and also the more draconian measures places like Italy and China are going through.

Of course, probably too late. 😔

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Top 10 countries getting dick punched by the virus right now. Can the US beat France to 10k, or even rush to the top 3 by the end of next week? Will China admit they're missing a couple of zeroes off of their total? Has the European shutdown done fuck all? When will the UK shut down its borders like we wanted back in 2016? What other countries will try to take a place in the spotlight? And does Italy even know what the hell is going on? Find out on the next exciting episode of Dragon Batsoup Z.

Country,
Other
Total
Cases
New
Cases
Total
Deaths
New
Deaths
Total
Recovered
Active
Cases
Serious,
Critical
Tot Cases/
1M pop
China 80,928 +34 3,245 +8 70,420 7,263 2,274 56
Italy 35,713   2,978   4,025 28,710 2,257 591
Iran 17,361   1,135   5,710 10,516   207
Spain 14,769   638   1,081 13,050 800 316
Germany 12,327   28   105 12,194 2 147
USA 9,436 +179 155 +5 108 9,173 64 29
France 9,134   264   602 8,268 931 140
S. Korea 8,565 +152 91 +7 1,947 6,527 59 167
Switzerland 3,115   33   15 3,067   360
UK 2,626   104   65 2,457 20 39

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

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16 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

That last column is pretty important.

Not particularly, when it's population density that would be more relevant. Total population just means it has more to eventually infect.

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44 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

It's certainly relevant to the spread within a particular region, or an individual's chance of contracting the disease, but your discussion of that chart had nothing at all to do with population density (nor would one expect you to, given there is no such data anywhere within the chart). My point was simply that your comparison of different countries was based on total cases irrespective of their percentage of population.

I'm not comparing different countries, I'm offering figures. Places with the largest current infected populations are obviously going to be the most interesting, and population density is certainly going to play a role in the speed of the spread. As I said, total population is irrelevant for this really.

44 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Population density isn't even a reliable point of comparison between countries since it varies so much internally (urban vs rural, etc). Australia for example ranks something like 226 in the world for population density - but given how much of us are concentrated in capital cities in practical reality our density is much greater.

But then if you try to use something like total cases per 1m pop,  you end up with places like Andorra or Liechtenstein coming into focus, and they're not even at 100 cases combined. Probably best to just stick to total cases without trying to water it down further.

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13 hours ago, Doro said:

Will China admit they're missing a couple of zeroes off of their total?

no they won't.

rather China is running counter narratives on how they are the Exemplars on how a Country handles this new virus...  whilst also playing the race card, that identifying geography for the virus flash point: Wuhan Wet Markets  is racist and/or xenophobic...

so i think it is time to highlight the:

Timeline: The early days of China's coronavirus outbreak and cover-up

 

and i will highlight a couple things from the timeline above:

- Dr Li Wenliang raises the alarm December 30 2019 dies from Virus.

 

How early signs of the coronavirus were spotted, spread and throttled in China

 

& WHO can't forget! this tweet on January 14, 2020:

the first case outside China showed up a day before this tweet, in Thailand.

China didn't start hard locking things down until January 23.  so the window of December 10 - January 23  the Wuhan flashpoint had open travel of who can say how many potential "SARS like, but much more infectious" carriers were spreading it, and not just in China:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-sweatshop-insight-idUSBRE9BS04D20131229

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/02/italys-biggest-chinese-community-clashes-with-police-near-florence

so yeah, i will call it a Chinese Virus.  it is the responsible thing to do.


"who said that"

"i'm not sure the persons name"

"say the term again"

"a person at the Whitehouse used the term Kung Flu"

"Kung Flu?"

"Kung Flu."

 

this virus is spiking... will this racial focus by the chronically out of touch media play on when hospitals start to run out of beds and ventilators?

been waiting for a point to insert this, but there are definitely Asians who agree with Trump!


i am fine with China wanting to clean up THEIR mess.  but...

10 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

And this ( https://www.zerohedge.com/health/cdc-was-fighting-racism-obesity-instead-stopping-epidemics ) is part of why the US response is kinda.... weird.  The CDC isn't doing what it should be doing... which has been a problem for a long time.

the narrative shift is interesting, the timeline of when this all started...

https://connectamericas.com/content/how-did-concept-outsourcing-begin

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/12/11/outsourcing-to-china-cost-us-32-million-jobs-since-2001

 

 

the vassals lining up to pay fealty to an openly Socialist Empire and all the agents who have been long and slow marching all this time looking to make bank.  some of them outright getting paid directly from.

i would be perfectly fine with China cleaning up THEIR mess, but i don't suspect that is what is actually happening.

pity what is happening very recently in Serbia because the EU dropped the ball.


and just because of all the lefts repeated hurling of Racist and Xenophobe, let me introduce some new terms:

Sinocentrism     &     Sinicization

a huge deal for Japan and Korea of the past & more recently Tibet and Tiawan...  don't ever let anyone play the shame game over Wuhan and/or Chinese Virus  with you.  it is important to point to the flash point for this & this fight needs to happen now.

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6 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

so yeah, i will call it a Chinese Virus.  it is the responsible thing to do.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's responsible, but it's certainly true to call it that. It came from China, because of their cultural practices (ignoring 3 different conspiracy theories I lend some credibility to).

The issue (and it's pretty reasonable) is that there are a lot of stupid people out there, and there's overlap in a Venn diagram with some of Trump's supporters, which is causing an irrational and ignorant backlash to anyone with Chinese heritage. It was happening in the UK too, and it's likely happening elsewhere, but in the US this sub-set of Trump fans that are listening to him intently are taking what he's saying this way: Chinks are the enemy. It's a common tactic Trump's used before, to walk that line and make an us vs them rhetoric to appeal to those in society who would rather a more homogenous society (I don't blame them), but it's a thin line and you've got the proper idiot racists also taking what he's saying on board.

Now the question is whether it's worth risking Trump using potentially incendiary terms that could cause the immoral in society to target the innocent for xenophobic reasons, all to keep negative associations on China (and in all likelihood it's another part of his ongoing economic war with them). Personally, I don't think you can ever truly account for the stupidity of people, so why bother pussy-footing to try to avoid sparking said idiocy. But I can certainly see why some see the terminology to be a risk, even if it is coming from the fear-mongering media who are responsible for much of the hysteria already and happen to benefit by pushing anti-Trump narratives anyway.

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Is all this leading up to China receiving a bill for services rendered due China spawning this virus? I don't know if there is a precedent, or if it is a way to go forward for future virus emergence, but if I thought of it, so have others.

It might be a way to go forward with the memo.

Cause or create a world wide contagion be prepared to pay the cost of the world's health.

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24 minutes ago, Splay said:

Is all this leading up to China receiving a bill for services rendered due China spawning this virus? I don't know if there is a precedent, or if it is a way to go forward for future virus emergence, but if I thought of it, so have others.

It might be a way to go forward with the memo.

Cause or create a world wide contagion be prepared to pay the cost of the world's health.

It would be nice. The downside is China has a lot already in poverty, and the government are corrupt commies so they'll be the ones hit by a global health bill. Maybe the media should also put some money towards it, considering the panic they caused.

My alternate hope is that people do something I've always wanted them to do and start to reject globalism. I think I've even said a few times here that the whole multi-cultural, let's-mix-everyone-together experiment had major risks involved, and now we're seeing what happens when a contagion hits what is effectively a world with the weakest borders of all time. It's well known in agriculture that monocultures are dangerous despite the short-term benefits, and that same principle applies equally to people. Maybe it's time to re-think national independence for everyone, so that if one population hits hard times, all the others don't swiftly follow.

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19 hours ago, Doro said:

I wouldn't necessarily say it's responsible,

then you missed the point i was making.  that whole bit about outsourcing (workers and factories)...

or the other elephant in the room...  Han chauvinism.

you have Han Chinese and then 55 other Chinese "minorities"...  mostly thanks to the Han.

and the video of the wet market i posted...  it was really tame, relatively speaking.  didn't really showcase the live animals in tiny cages from every continent in very close proximity.  which is a big factor in the continued risk of new mega diseases/virus's.  i've seen some phootage that is just sad really...  i'm no animal rights activist by any means, but this stuff was hard to watch.

19 hours ago, Doro said:

which is causing an irrational and ignorant backlash to anyone with Chinese heritage.

and that is stupid. 

again, not my target.

this however:

giphy.gif?cid=790b76112c2d6af211e20ff7fa

the actual regime in power...

tell me you can't watch ^that^ and know this goes way beyond, "it's just a different culture."

18 hours ago, Splay said:

Is all this leading up to China receiving a bill for services rendered due China spawning this virus?

no.

bringing supply chains (manufacturing, production) back inside western countries and hiring locally.  anything else will contribute to insecurity the next time this happens.

tariffs remaining in place, (maybe some new ones as well.)  an actual bill isn't necessary.

continuing to shine a light on the extreme practices of this regime, without bucking to propaganda from.

watching how China finances (even outright laundering money) in western markets, causing inflation, shortages, etc.  that also needs to stop.

here in Vancouver, we've started taxing all the empty properties, which post expo 86 really started to kick real estate up.  but more needs to be done.

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What the actual fuck.  People are scared, people are dying.  Hes the President, he should be trying to reassure those that are scared, but instead he is attacking journalists for asking questions  

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20 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

What the actual fuck.  People are scared, people are dying.  Hes the President, he should be trying to reassure those that are scared, but instead he is attacking journalists for asking questions  

If you actually watched the entire news conference (instead of just the clip), this was in the Q&A section long after they had described all the things they were doing to help keep us safe, and even had several members of the Cabinet report in WITH the head of the CDC and the VP on what they are responsible for, their progress, and how things are going.  That idiot from CNN just kept trying to fear monger and Trump thumped him for it after about the third time he had made that comment, and it was glorious.

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In isolation the video shows a question Trump didn't want to answer in the context offered. I don't see it a surprise a FOX affiliate chose the clip in its isolated version. Trump could have brushed off the fear monger part to his advantage, but chose to be offensive. Had he stood up and opposed the sensationalism of the moment with an empathetic response the day would have been better for all and stop the reporter in his tracks.

A President really needs to ignore his own information bias when addressing the people he was elected to represent.

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I think most people saw him (Trump) as being a jerk (as usual). I think most people aren't crotch grabbing 22 year olds in front of their homies. YMMV

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3 hours ago, LasraelLarson said:

again, not my target.
...

tell me you can't watch ^that^ and know this goes way beyond, "it's just a different culture."

I wasn't talking about either of our opinions really, I was only pointing out why there's controversy around the term when it comes to Trump and the media. If we're getting into our own views on modern mainland Chinese culture, Trump calling the virus Chinese would likely pale in comparison.

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All Trump had to do was acknowledge that people as scared, but that everything that can be done is being done.  If people listen to and follow the advise from the CDC then America will get through this and be stronger for it.

It is an easy question to answer, and sound presidential.  Instead he sounded like a dick

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On 3/19/2020 at 12:56 PM, Doro said:

Top 10 countries getting dick punched by the virus right now. Can the US beat France to 10k, or even rush to the top 3 by the end of next week? Will China admit they're missing a couple of zeroes off of their total? Has the European shutdown done fuck all? When will the UK shut down its borders like we wanted back in 2016? What other countries will try to take a place in the spotlight? And does Italy even know what the hell is going on? Find out on the next exciting episode of Dragon Batsoup Z.

Country,
Other
Total
Cases
New
Cases
Total
Deaths
New
Deaths
Total
Recovered
Active
Cases
Serious,
Critical
Tot Cases/
1M pop
China 80,928 +34 3,245 +8 70,420 7,263 2,274 56
Italy 35,713   2,978   4,025 28,710 2,257 591
Iran 17,361   1,135   5,710 10,516   207
Spain 14,769   638   1,081 13,050 800 316
Germany 12,327   28   105 12,194 2 147
USA 9,436 +179 155 +5 108 9,173 64 29
France 9,134   264   602 8,268 931 140
S. Korea 8,565 +152 91 +7 1,947 6,527 59 167
Switzerland 3,115   33   15 3,067   360
UK 2,626   104   65 2,457 20 39

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Two Days Later..... | SpongeBob Time Card #98 - YouTube

Country,
Other
Total
Cases
New
Cases
Total
Deaths
New
Deaths
Total
Recovered
Active
Cases
Serious,
Critical
Tot Cases/
1M pop
China 80,967   3,248   71,150 6,569 2,136 56
Italy 47,021 +5,986 4,032 +627 5,129 37,860 2,655 778
Spain 21,510 +3,433 1,093 +262 1,588 18,829 939 460
Germany 19,848 +4,528 68 +24 180 19,600 2 237
Iran 19,644 +1,237 1,433 +149 6,745 11,466   234
USA 19,393 +5,604 256 +49 147 18,990 64 59
France 12,612 +1,617 450 +78 1,587 10,575 1,297 193
S. Korea 8,652 +87 94 +3 2,233 6,325 59 169
Switzerland 5,407 +1,185 56 +13 15 5,336   625
UK 3,983 +714 177 +33 65 3,741 20 59

 

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37 minutes ago, cossieuk said:

All Trump had to do was acknowledge that people as scared, but that everything that can be done is being done.  If people listen to and follow the advise from the CDC then America will get through this and be stronger for it.

It is an easy question to answer, and sound presidential.  Instead he sounded like a dick

I read (but didn't see) that Trump was disagreeing with his own expert (Dr. Fauci) about the effectiveness of a certain drug right at the press conference? A scientist and a land swapper arguing about efficient treatment. Amazing.

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5 hours ago, cossieuk said:

All Trump had to do was acknowledge that people as scared, but that everything that can be done is being done.  If people listen to and follow the advise from the CDC then America will get through this and be stronger for it.

It is an easy question to answer, and sound presidential.  Instead he sounded like a dick

He kinda did throughout all of

 

Edited by Doro
removed unnecessary dig
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