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COVID-19 (Coronavirus)

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6 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

That Trump is racist? I'm quite sure a lot of the TDS sufferers here believe that, despite the lack of any evidence to support it.

No, quite obviously I asked if you can find anyone here that agreed with the media that Trump shouldn't call it the China virus. You know, that thing you claimed despite the lack of any evidence to support it.

Quote

Where did I say anyone here has said that?

In the very last line in your post where you tried to shove 4 failed points in your own imagination on the rest of us here.

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last post edited to include key missing video segment.


21 hours ago, Doro said:

Nope, look up what actually happened and the details involved. You've fallen for clickbait.

you still have failed to show why it is click bait.

but here is more proof from me that it is not click bait:

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2020/03/12/South-Korea-experts-recommend-anti-HIV-anti-malaria-drugs-for-COVID-19/6961584012321/

^that^ is from March 12 2020, before Trump ever said anything about this drug.

it is not click-bait and in my previous post i have explained why an immune modulator drug is effective for this particular disease.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

you still have failed to show why it is click bait.

Two things:

1. You're confusing potential management of symptoms with a cure. Paracetamol is as much of a treatment and even those sorts of drugs also have their concerns.

2. The only supposed clinical trial has shown no effect. As someone who has repeatedly claimed concern over unforeseen long-term effects of the virus, you should be applying the same suspicion to any claims of an untested, unverified cure.

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28 minutes ago, Doro said:

You're confusing potential management of symptoms with a cure.

not confusing anything.  this is therapeutic to improve conditions and mitigate surges of critical conditions where respiration is needed.  i never called it a cure.  the tech mag did use sensational language, but that does not eliminate the benefits of this drug.  it does work to keep a persons immune system from deteriorating to the point secondary issues and organ failures make things much worse.

28 minutes ago, Doro said:

The only supposed clinical trial has shown no effect. As someone who has repeatedly claimed concern over unforeseen long-term effects of the virus, you should be applying the same suspicion to any claims of an untested, unverified cure.

from china.

how come the french trial produced different results?  why did South Korean CDC also recommend this treatment?

and this drug HAS been tested for Malaria, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis  & AIDS as a successful immune modulator.

the reason you'd use an immune modulator on a Flu though...  well ther is reason why some would be worried about that regard, because it showcases some of the more irregular features of this new virus...

 

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8 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

not confusing anything. this is therapeutic to improve conditions and mitigate surges of critical conditions where respiration is needed.

You're trying to back up your claim using the French "results" that claim the drug actually reduces recovery time, which is nothing to do with improving conditions until the natural recovery occurs.

8 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

it does work to keep a persons immune system from deteriorating to the point secondary issues and organ failures make things much worse.

Currently no evidence to make such a claim in the context of this virus.

6 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

how come the french trial produced different results?

The French "results" weren't a clinical trial, which is another part of the clickbait you've fallen for.

6 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

why did South Korean CDC also recommend this treatment?

People are recommending anything right now when it comes to life or death situations. If someone is going to die, they're willing to try anything based on results from other diseases. But none of it is based on confirmed results.

6 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

and this drug HAS been tested for Malaria, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis  & AIDS as a successful immune modulator.

Which aren't COVID-19. Some drugs help for some diseases, but can exacerbate others. The current data is far too low to say hydroxybloxyclororhrorowhatever is an effective treatment for this.

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you do know it is more than just the French and South Koreans who've had success with this drug... right?

bah why bother, keep your head in the sand.

right now time, my oldest friend, will take care of this for me.

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1 minute ago, LasraelLarson said:

you do know it is more than just the French and South Koreans who've had success with this drug... right?

bah why bother, keep your head in the sand.

You've literally got no clinical trials to back up your position, and the only one available (which I posted) disproves it. Yet you think it's me with his head in the sand?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for a solution to this virus that's already available. However, there's just no evidence. I'm not gullible enough to buy unverified claims, and I'm certainly not going to trust the gut feeling of Trump of all people. If actual clinical trials show it helps, even for some segments of the population, then great. Until then, you're falling for clickbait and unproven claims.

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1 hour ago, Doro said:

You've literally got no clinical trials to back up your position

and they are starting all over the world...

as the media now inquires about timelines for approval and the like, everyone is going to get a crash course in the Bureaucratic red tape that exists in the States.

another little thing i never linked here was how Washington State, which was one of the first flash points in the US has had better success than New York, did a couple of things like ignoring regulations around testing, to fast track response time, a move that is being credited as succeessful.

regardless,  these delays will serve to highlight many issues with the current supply chain and why it is that things like test kits don't get made over night.

i think for the smarter here, it will be self evident how this ultimately helps Trumps position.

plays right into his hand in fact.  ;)


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52092395

seems the helping hand China is sending is not so welcome.

but they sure managed to conduct a reliable double blind, non defective clinical trial in short order.  _O-

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17 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

and they are starting all over the world...

Cool, let me know when the results are in.

17 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

*random stuff about US red-tape*

Ok.

17 minutes ago, LasraelLarson said:

but they sure managed to conduct a reliable double blind, non defective clinical trial in short order.  _O-

Yeah, in a country over over a billion people, the guys who were doing mask production are the same guys who were doing the clinical trial. They've been busy little bees.

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46 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Wrong. You need to read that last line more carefully, since you patently did not understand it.

(Emphasis added to help comprehension)

Read your own line again. Slowly. Even slower than normal. See the bit about people in this thread? That's the bit where you're talking absolute shit yet again. Nobody has said any of what you were pissing about, yet you still tried to suggest any of us align ourselves with it. That TDS you constantly bring up is your own Trump Dependency Syndrome kicking in.

 

Back on to actually important issues; Europe hits 30,000 deaths, with two thirds in Spain and Italy alone.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52117883

There's been stories in Spain of retirement and care homes for the elderly being abandoned by workers for fear of contracting the virus themselves, as well as authorities struggling to adequately store the rising number of bodies. With funerals in a lot of countries now being limited to less than a dozen attendees allowed, these deaths come with the added pain for families of not even being able to be there to bury or cremate the people they've lost.

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To further back up what Doro said, I have no problem if it is called the Wuhan or China flu. A dozen or more afflictions are named after places. The Left is wasting their time arguing with Trump on this. He's done so much else poorly that that ain't the hill to die on. Seems like Covid-19 is going to stick though.

One of the few things he did do well is do the travel ban from China. He did nothing with the time that was saved though.

His lies on testing early on were bad. Not all on him though. CDC and FDA have much to answer for there. Though he WAS in charge and should have handled testing better. South Korea should have been the model.

As for missing masks and sanitizer from hospitals, I hadn't heard this and blame nothing on Trump here.

Of course, his style of leadership during this has been abysmal. But nothing new here. Has been that way for 5 years with his political run. It's completely idiotic but his base loves that he's idiotic because it pwns the Libs.

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https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985?fbclid=IwAR1unPVainUR65XDBAZF7DhHNHfk8AHdDwUTfRxXora7cHRbCUCBICcqyL0

A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence

The article is from 2015 and has a recent edit addition.

Change history

30 March 2020

Editors’ note, March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus.

 

Will the near future provide some insight with details, or will history be rewritten?

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Anybody live close to a large cluster of cases? Im just outside of NYC with about 80,000 positives within 50 miles of me. Amazingly I do not know one person who has tested postive, just a few of "My uncle's coworker" etc

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1 hour ago, Altreg01 said:

Anybody live close to a large cluster of cases? Im just outside of NYC with about 80,000 positives within 50 miles of me. Amazingly I do not know one person who has tested postive, just a few of "My uncle's coworker" etc

I'm a little north of you, don't know anyone who's tested positive, though one of my friends did get tested last week and was waiting to hear back.  I haven't heard back from him since then and will try to get in touch again later this week if I don't hear from him before then. 

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4 hours ago, Altreg01 said:

Anybody live close to a large cluster of cases? Im just outside of NYC with about 80,000 positives within 50 miles of me. Amazingly I do not know one person who has tested postive, just a few of "My uncle's coworker" etc

Nope, I know nobody. I've had about a dozen say things like "well I was feeling a rough a little while ago", and even I got hit hard with flu at the start of the year that was worse than any other flu I've had, but that seems to be it. Nothing but speculation and stories and no actual confirmation, I guess because nobody really wants to waste time getting tested if they experience non-apocalyptic symptoms.

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13 hours ago, Altreg01 said:

Anybody live close to a large cluster of cases? Im just outside of NYC with about 80,000 positives within 50 miles of me. Amazingly I do not know one person who has tested postive, just a few of "My uncle's coworker" etc

I also live to a relative large cluster (above 0,2% of the population tested positive) in the Netherlands; Though that is mostly because it are smaller regions and people in nursing homes for the elderly attracted it. Especially deaths/100k population are high.

I've got 4 relatives that have had Corona-like symptoms (one sat in a train next to somebody coughing heavily couple of weeks ago, one has been in a meeting with 2 confirmed cases, 1 had nursed a patient) but none of them tested because symptoms were mild (no hospilization need is mild these days...)

And some collegues too with possible corona symptoms, but none tested as far as I know

Maybe I've had it too, really mild symptoms, and my wife too, 2/3 weeks ago; But that likely was the flu or common cold. 3 young kids going to school/kindergarten is almost a guarantee for getting that a couple of times/winter ;)

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So we now have over 1 million confirmed cases world wide and over 50000 deaths.  It took less than a week to go from 500000 cases to a million.

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4 hours ago, cossieuk said:

So we now have over 1 million confirmed cases world wide and over 50000 deaths.  It took less than a week to go from 500000 cases to a million.

Deaths are doubling at the same rate, too, which means potentially a million deaths by the end of this month assuming the infection rate doesn't slow.

If Germany's figures are to be believed, then they are the country the world needs to imitate in terms of reducing fatalities. 85,000 infected but 1,107 deaths. They failed miserably at containing the virus, but they're at least managing to get people through having it.

Meanwhile France has only been including hospitalised deaths in its figures, which means it could even surpass Italy's death rate.

And this is why I've been saying lockdowns are dangerous solutions to this pandemic. So many people now are being hit by unnecessary lockdowns when it should've always been lockdowns for the vulnerable (sick/elderly). I've got a few mates back home who are now unable to work despite being fit and healthy. Two are self-employed but don't fit the government's criteria for help, while the other two worked for a company that's going belly up already and even the stupid 80% government salary thing won't help it. They're just lucky they have savings behind them, unlike these companies that make a killing for their management but can't handle a rocky few months. It should be fucking illegal.

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The US have over 250000 cases and almost 7000 deaths, South Korea has just over 10000 cases and less than 200 deaths.  Both countries had their first confirmed cases on the same day, 17/01/2020..

The US has around 6 times the population of South Korea but over 25 times the number of cases and 25 times as many deaths.  If only Trump had acted as fast as the Koreans did.

 

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One of the upsides for me to any crisis is the sheer amount of conspiracies that pop up. They often conflict with each other, but there's probably a grain of truth in many of them. Here's a few I've spotted.

  1. Most of these "emergency" powers and protocols being put in place aren't going to be completely rolled back, TPTB are using this to get a firmer grasp afterwards. Get people used to being limited (like not being allowed outside, which is a pretty basic freedom) so that they don't push back as much.
  2. The figures are skewed, most people are either already infected or have already caught it months ago, but symptoms are easily missed or non-existent for most. After all, what are the chances that the very first person to get diagnosed is also the first person to catch the disease if it's mostly asymptomatic?
  3. Working from home is being used as a foot in the door for the government to keep track of even more of your private life, with excuses like people's safety or national security to be used. Homes turn from personal areas to pens where people are kept and monitored.
  4. Lockdowns are an attempt to separate people socially, making isolation seem more and more normal. Destroying community spirit wasn't enough, now even smaller social groups need to be disrupted since it's easier to control people when their circle of concern is smaller.
  5. Vaccines for adults turns from advisory to compulsory, and used as a Trojan horse to deliver whatever chemical they like, all with the support of the population who have been scared into compliance. This is also something claimed before regarding water supplies, hormone-drenched meat, and even chemtrails, but it's more reliable to force a direct "cure" than it is to rely on willing consumption and random distribution.
  6. This was all a plan to "fix" the unviable economy for another few decades, one where the population is always having to rush to catch up with the deficit of the last. Kill off the old and sick so that it frees up pensions and benefits for exploitation, while also getting the uppity middle and lower classes back to square one after their homes are repossessed and businesses fail, without impacting their own bottom line by using bailouts.
  7. More people have died than claimed, it's being covered up so that people don't panic as much. The idea is that a slow descend into an apocalypse, where people are unsure as to what reaction to really have about personal survival, is more desirable than a sudden riot-filled collapse as people realise civilisation is collapsing.
  8. TPTB were planning a biological attack in China to knock the status quo. China was in too comfortable a position where the rest of the world relied heavily on them, and now everyone knows that they will start to look elsewhere for trade, which will in turn further exacerbate tensions between the big 3 world powers, with the ultimate goal that one collapses and removed from the equation for better control.

There's lots more, I just haven't kept track.

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Scotland's CMO, who does the daily briefings telling people not to go out unless it is essential was caught at her holiday home yesterday with her husband, 3 kinds and the dog.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5460581/coronavirus-scotland-catherine-calderwood-chief-medic-covid-19/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=scottishsuntwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1586033299

She claimed that they were just there to make sure the property was secure, and then they stayed the night.  They were pictured out walking on the local golf course.

How do these people expect to get the public to follow the rules when they wont.

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One concern on the horizon amid the virus spread is farmers and their seasonal crops. In the US most of the manual labor in the fields is done by seasonal migrant workers. When I say most, of course that is subjective, nonetheless this work isn't being done by educated or even semi educated people. Prior to the 1980s and the introduction of NAFTA (NAFTA mention being a timestamp, but does have a relative value outside of just a timestamp.), traditionally these positions were performed by the farmer's family, young persons and college students residing in those farmer's area. Though the US farm land shrinks every year, those who retain their land for agriculture, often increase their land holdings, and in turn are generally the reason for the farming industries consolidation. Which I might add, can often lead to factory size farms basically subsidized by the corporations who purchase their fruit, vegetable, grain, ect.

The above is relevant at this moment, because of limitations on travel across national borders. Many fields workers are transitory traveling through the latitudes as the seasons pass through their annual cycle. A late April, peach picker in South Carolina might be picking apples in Pennsylvania by the time 6 months pass and return to Florida or south of the US border as winter approaches. This places the transitory nature of these employments at odds with the current situations where this kind of travel is mostly discouraged. This places farmers in a predicament where planted vegetable crops and season tree crops can be set to ripen where they grow not be harvested. What is a farmer to do? Let a strawberry field go several days past peak harvest time and its a near total loss?

Where is a farmer able to find laborers? Well, as said previous, those farmers relied on family and local communities to provide labor. That is a hard sell today. Most farmer's children flee the farms as soon as they can. Often attending higher education or seeking employment found in cities. The reliance on outside labor has essentially taught Americans that they need not toil in fields when their nation allows others to perform the labor at a comparative cheap cost. No young person wants to get their hands dirty when they can play with their device of choice, convincing themselves they can be podcast stars, learn to code drones, or just plain lazy wards of the welfare system.

Will farmer let their crops rot and claim hardship? Possibly so, wouldn't that be a huge shame, when millions are unemployed. With unemployment benefits subsidizing an additional $600 per week, it's a hard pitch to convince previous employed persons to throw that free money aside and sweat in a farm field.

What would FDR do? Possibly prompt every young person who isn't attending school or college with some incentive to sweat in the fields. Direct large corporations to divert their unemployed to cooperatively harvest farm fields before they move past the ripe stage. Set up travel and work camps under health driven guidelines to achieve these labor tasks.

TL;DR

Farmers are fucked. Trump is too dumb to know this. Time is relative. Americans are too lazy to perform manual labor. The price of produce will double in the coming months.

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