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LotrO forums changing - a few more gems


Tarantula
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Tomorrow the game will see some maintenance and 'an updated LOTRO.com will be launched'.

Quite interesting that we get that update now, and I have no idea whether old forum content will survive. So here are, for posterity's sake, a few more highlights from our much beloved developer and some of the responses he received.

I am making a second thread about another discussion with some priceless discussion beside this one, because it becomes way too much when a second post in this thread would be merged with the first post. Bear with me.

This is from the 'Comments on the new reward track' thread. Sentences in italics are what Raninia is responding to:

Raninia: Hey folks, thanks for the comments, gonna try and answer as much as I can.

1. Please stop using Horizontal UI's - Make the reward track UI vertical - Please!

Sorry, we won't be able to fundamentally change the UI at this time. We're going to continue to iterate on the current version, as there's a lot of additional UX we want to add to make it more pleasant of an experience.

2. The ability to apply multiple runes at once is an ABSOLUTE MUST. Clicking on heritage runes for hours on end to apply all the ones you've got is just going to lead to RSI.

This is something we addressed in the Bullroarer notes, but to reiterate, yes.

3. There are no values associated with the purple scroll bars i.e. you should be able to hover over them and see how many points you have and/or how many you need to finish that level/award.

This is intentional. We'll see how this plays out in the first season, and decide on the future from there.

4. Traceries awarded should be via a tracery selection box and not randomly assigned

My understanding is that this is intentional. The Reward Track is a supplemental system, not intended to be the main way you progress your Legendary Items. If you get drops that aren't useful for a particular character, many will be useful for an alt, and any that aren't can always be turned into Ancient Script.

BTW Everybody - Be Warned - If you double click on a box containing Ancient Scripts and you are cap then you just LOSE the lot. There is no warning that you are at cap or a mechanism to stop you opening the box - Perhaps there should be one of these.

That's a good thought, we'll think about that.

Also BTW - Which developer thought it was a good idea to change the sorting of heritage runes in our vaults. They used to be sorted on rune value so that if you wanted a low value rune you went to the left hand end of the line and if you wanted a high level rune you went to the right hand end of the line. I'm not entirely sure what they are sorted on now (perhaps name?) but they are totally jumbled up and you can't find the one you want without hovering over each and every one you've got.

I'm not sure if anything has changed, but if so, it sounds like it may be a bug. Please go ahead and file one so we can investigate.

Questions: #1 does your progress get erased when they start a new season if you dont finish the season you were on?

Yes, as there will be new rewards and a new track, any rewards you don't earn or claim in one season won't be available for you to earn or claim in the next. This doesn't mean that rewards won't be repeated - we expect Traceries, Tokens, and Ancient Script to be pretty consistent in every season. Even new unique rewards may reappear in future tracks after their initial appearance, once we begin to add them.

#2 Do we really have to have so many different heritage runes? There's a 320,000 and a 335,000 for example. The number of different ones could probably be cut in half with no ill effects. I know it takes up bag space which is monetized, but I literaly cant buy anymore space. For whatever reason, I have single Tomes of defence taking up 5 different spaces in my shared storage and I cant even sell them in the AH. It makes me question the "free" hobbit gifts and code of the week.

I don't think we need to in the future. We'll be removing the heritage rune grants from Gundabad quests with this update, and we'll be thinking about more broadly reducing the number of runes and their correlated drops throughout the game, but there's a lot of sources of them in almost fourteen years, so it'll take some time to find all of the ones we want to change.

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Here are a few responses:

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Why? What possible benefit is there in leaving players guessing how much is left until the next level, and possibly wasting bigger IXP runes when a smaller IXP rune would have sufficed? We can discuss to which extent rewards should be reliant on RNG all day long, but the actual act of spending a currency (IXP runes) should be an informed decision, we should not have to guess how far our currency will get us towards a reward.

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Can you confirm what the main way you progress LIs is meant to be?

- When Ancient Script was introduced, it was said that the barterers in the Last Homely House were just supplementary - higher costs so you could decide exactly what you wanted.
- Deconstruction of items into Ancient Script was nerfed (if I remember correctly) so that isn’t a valid way to select the right traceries for your LIs, due to the size of the grind.
- Some traceries drop from instances, but these are random, so can’t be a valid way to create an LI, as you could do an instance any number of times and still not give you the legacy you’re after, driving you towards the Ancient Scripts.
- Quests also bestow these random boxes - same problem.

Now we’re told that the Reward Track is not the main way to gain the right traceries - so what on earth is?

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Probably I should be DLing and having a look see myself but taking Raninia's comment about it not being the main source for traceries but supplemental; it strikes me that it should reward something you want rather than compound the random we have from instances. Given that you start with say 20+ specific "needed" by the time you get down to the last few your chances of filling the mastery gaps might be down to 1 in 35/40 each "pull", whatever the source, due to repeats. I don't know how frequent the rewards become available, would hope there'd be the means to finally fill in those gaps.

A few days ago some guy on Evernight linked 130+ evade gold traceries in a call out for an SS farm; it was disheartening to see they had gotten so many (maybe some trades too?) but, for what ever reason, saw value in continuing to farm. By the fourth/fifth repeat on cyans I tire of it all.

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"Guys I know you have limited ways to farm traceries but we promise the reward tracker will solve everything"

"The reward tracker is not going to be the main way to get traceries"

...there are a million gifs for this.

In the old system you could basically make the exact LI you needed and the only RNG was the starter legacies. You could replace them easily pre-imbue, but if the major:minor ratio wasn't in your favour you could replace post-imbue by earning in-game currency or even store options. Sure you had passive stats but they were only present on 2H items (and staves), weren't game breakingly imbalanced and became almost irrelevant.

Anyone who prepped for the LI revamp had plenty of shattered Minas Morgul Traceries to pick and choose teal traceries at will, but that's not everyone and as we move further away from the prep opportunity more and more people are going to be in that boat where if they want full teal or full gold, two players putting the same amount of hours into farming those will get two completely different results. To the point where maybe for every 20 useful traceries the other will get 1. This level of RNG is inexcusable, and makes you wonder if the Devs are sadistic enough to deal with the same system or aren't engaged enough in the maximizing LI's part of the game to care.

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What are u sayin?! THERE IS O WAY TO COMPLETE YOUR LI. ONLY RANDOM DROP. ANY WAY TO GET BARTER TOKENS, AND ALL TRACERIES NEED BARTER TOKENS, WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD OURS WEAPONS ONLY BECAUSE WE HAD THE OLD ONES. NEW PLAYER WITHOUT LUCK WILL NEVER EVER IN LOTRO COMPLETE HIS LI, UNLES HE PUT RANDOM UNNEEDED TRACIERIERES.....

That RANDOM drop is the main problem of this rt

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Are you serious? 90% of the traceries from random drop are class traceries that we can't send to alts and the amount of Ancient Scripts they turn into is a joke. And still, even if we have enough Ancient Scripts, we still need other tokens to barter better traceries. The more traceries you already have, the harder it is to get traceries you need from a random drop, to the point where it's nearly impossible. The only way not to make it a horrible, exhausting and boring grind fest is to give us selection boxes instead of random drop. Get your stuff together.

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Totally unacceptable answers.

Intentionally not showing how much more you need to fill the bar???

Not going to be able to change the horizontal interface?

The reward track is just supplemental to an already random system???

Just don't answer more questions before you have have a hard look at what you want to accomplish and in what way, 'cause every time you either write something or show us something in BR it has the EXACT opposite effect of what you expect!

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It's pretty obvious isn't it? Main way for teals = school farm KekW

Main way for goldens = SS farm until nerf, then it's #### you, that's why.

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Thanks for your response, but I have to say this is very disappointing. I understand UI work is hard and time consuming and you likely have engineers who aren't UI experts doing this on their own, but it's important and a fundamental change is absolutely needed.

I consider myself a pretty level headed person, but even I can't look at this UI without getting angry. It's not just the UI, it's the message it sends to players who don't understand software development. When you see the lack of decisions made around use of real estate and the horizontal scroll bar to get through 100 of these items it crushes your confidence in this game. It may not seem important, but it is, it gives off the impression that you guys just don't care (even though we know that's not the case).

Just imagine forgetting to claim a reward somewhere in the middle, say #49, now imagine trying to scroll through this awful box slowly enough to try to find it. It's a miserable experience.

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On Treebeard there are zero ways to earn gold traceries, not sure if you knew, but reward track was the only thing people had their hopes on to get gold traceries. Also, most IXP runes that we earn are unusable on Treebeard because of the minimum level requirement, which is a major issue that needs to be addressed.

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If this is now a supplemental system, what is the main way we are supposed to earn traceries at all levels? Just asking for a friend.

If SSG plans to remove some of the heritage (IXP) runes from the game, where exactly will we get the XP to even complete the season bars? The first season will be a great vault cleaning effort for many of us. After that, I would like to know where we should be headed. Is there an actual plan in place? Is the next part of this micro transactions in the store? Again, just asking for a friend.

 

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This is just your problem lately. There is an idea that is good (apart from the date of its introduction), but you attach something to it that just irritates the players.

If there was a real opportunity to get those tracers that I "want" as a player, I would be pleased. Currently, I can even go to the next run t5 insta and what will I get from it? Blue tracer, just UNFORTABLE, RANDOM. Recently I was cleaning up the #### that was coming from inst and burned out 7 such blue, hard-earned tracers on the BEO "EVADE TRACERIES". If I could, for example, exchange them somehow for a blue token - I would be happier many times.

There are players who will be doing 10 characters each week in a tier instance. But most will not do that, and it is this randomness that makes you even more unwilling to do so.
Well, in the end, it would be in the image that instead of (beginning of January) we kill cosmetic and decoration (no ember / motes to figment exchange), and now giving a system that basically gives the same thing as doing 10 instances to get 7x not as much tracer as I would like to get.
You should be encouraging players to now have the opportunity to launch their now-longed reward, wanted what went, another instance, another alt. Do not show us, "struggle for 3 hours so that there is no lag, double hitting the boss or any other problem, and you will get another nothing."

The addition of a vendor that exchanges for ember eq among many players has caused very positive reactions - finally we have how to replace the unwanted eq with one that will be useful. Follow this path, and let's not do randomness, without a real source of getting what we want - players play for satisfaction, fun not for hard labor. I like to ponytail dancing lately more than to instances that I will have nothing to do with.

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That is a truly terrible decision and shows a complete lack of understanding about the game and players.
So you expect me to spend 3 months dumping IXP in to this reward track to get stuff that I probably can't use, very few traceries are relevant, the majority are useless to me and the way I play, and you think the answer convert them to AS is a satisfactory one? The AS value from disenchanting a tracery gives a paltry amount of AS. So 3 months effort for something I can get from 5 minutes elsewhere - I can get AS from all the junk traceries that readily drop in the game. Getting teal or gold traceries is a lot trickier.
Simple question if it is beyond SSGs technical capabilities to provide a tracery selection box, the only viable excuse for random traceries, why not just provide the cracked/shattered tracery and we can then make our own?

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Call me old-fashioned and in the minority here, but maybe SSG doesn't WANT people to have the "perfect LI". Yeah, I get it, to run end-game content you need a some pretty good LI's. For T5's or whatever. Maybe they want to make the game a little more challenging? There's certainly room for that.

I've been running around with a level 140 champ in Gundabad with a couple of disabled traceries and doing just fine. Sure, I haven't grouped...much. And I haven't tested this new build, but meh, count me as just fine the way they are planning it.
 

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Comments about challenge aside (only two groups cleared the last raid on T5 before the LI revamp nerfed it); the existence of a perfect item/weapon/build/McGuffin does naturally result in people chasing it. Now the thing about building a perfect LI with full gold traceries is that it is totally possible for one to do that, but the path towards doing that is a pretty miserable experience. I'm sure you've noted the frequent SS runs taking place on most servers these days as people try to hunt down their gold traceries. People are doing the same basic instance over and over and over again for a roughly 1 in 90 chance of getting a particular gold tracery that they want. They're slowly getting there but doing 30 runs in a row and getting absolutely nothing you want is a pretty disheartening experience.

This kind of system generally targets the more goal-oriented part of the playerbase and pushes them into doing stuff that isn't particularly enjoyable. Players who aren't enjoying what they're doing are eventually going to get burnt out and just leave. Right now this is primarily a system that creates frustration and that's not the kind of thing you should be aiming to make your playerbase feel.

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There needs to be a way to carry forward any unused IXP that you've dumped into the Reward Track. A direct carry over would be the easiest but something like having a heritage rune of the closest denomination to your invested but not claimed IXP drop in the pack of the first character logged in after a new Reward Track opens would suffice. So for example if you're halfway to filling the next segment of the current Track and that cost you 10,000 IXP then when the new Track opens you should not lose that 10,000 IXP progress.

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Two things:

The traceries you get are class-specific. So it's really not correct to say "many" will be useful for an alt, because most people don't play duplicate classes. And the amount of script you get from them is pretty trivial for a rare high-end reward.

I think one thing you might not know given your above statement is that a lot of existing traceries are good for almost nobody. There are 20 Words of Craft Traceries, and only 9 are ones any class would choose to use. Something like a third of the Word of Power traceries are completely undesired. Overall, ~25% of the random traceries you could get are stuff NOBODY wants. That means your odds are only 75% at best, and that's IF you have alt characters who play every role, and if you play all trait lines on the one you open the boxes on. For some classes, half or more of their Mastery traceries are for specs they don't play.

So if you play one character--say a healing Minstrel: of the 82 available traceries you eliminate ~10/25 Mastery, ~17/20 Craft, ~20/30 Power, and 5/7 of the Heraldric because they're for dps or tanking. 30 you *might* actually use, and 52 you never will even consider.

You barely have a one in three chance to get something you want in the beginning, and your chances only get worse and worse as you get ones you want, because all the ones you DON'T want are still out there, and some of the ones you DO want will be duplicates. So once you get your LIs half done, you'll be hoping for 12 traceries, but there will be 70 you don't need. Less than a 15% chance you'll get something you can use. Once you're down to the last one you need, it will take you 80+ runs to get it. (This is where the Reward Track can come in handy) Even if you had a 1/3 chance at getting something you want every single time, it would take ~70 drops to finish a single set of LIs. If the raid gives us ~5 chances and HoR gives one, that means it will take 3 months of doing 5 raids and a 6-man every single week. Compared to the Imbued system, this is a ton of effort. There were so many ways we could earn Empowerment Scrolls.

Once Sari Surma stops dropping them, we'll be down to 1 per week in House of Rest (which is far too few for a random chance--T3 should drop them as well) and whatever drops in the raid. But we have no idea what that will be. Barter token or random chance? One from each boss? Two? How many chests in the raid? Are there side bosses? Gold enhancement runes as well? We'll need ~100 of those per LI and we can currently get 1 per week.

We need large quantities of Enhancements and lots of chances at Traceries if they're going to be random. And that's not to have everything we want immediately--I'm not talking instant gratification. I'm talking fully upgrading our LIs before the next level cap hits. Would be nice to max them before the next expansion AND have some time to use them after they're completed. Right now this grind looks far worse than the old system. Since this is the first real iteration of obtaining LI items from current content, I don't think some specific info is too much to ask for, at least to counter all the specific information we're getting about what's NOT going to help progress our LIs.

You give us the bad news about things like this--the long-awaited Reward Track, far from being a solution to LI progression as has been speculated for months, is merely a supplemental system. Give us the good news too. It's why the Embers announcement earlier this month was so poorly-received. We got what seemed on its face like bad news, and no details that would indicate otherwise, like what would replace what was being taken away.

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If your intent with the new legendary system was to separate the casual vs more serious raiding players and build a wall, this is a great success. You have gear and weapon gated many of out of groups and content that was one time doable. Stairs, Bloody Threshold and FoKD brought people together actually helping each other obtain armor and confidence in grouping. There are people I used to see every day who have not logged on since the Frostbluff festival. They don't see a path to get the items they need to be part of a future group raid anymore. A few have told me that they are bored with the dailies and will wait and see if things improve before they decide if they are returning to the game. I spend most of my time on a low level character. I am enjoying Middle Earth and not sure I even care anymore about seasons as I probably won't end up with a weapon equal to the quality I previously had under the old system. Why work for a carrot that I will never reach? Level 50 and below currently has many choices for good armor and weapons. No grind and RNG involved.

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Further to the wholly understandable and predictable cries of despair (with which I completely sympathise) can I implore you to consider one further aspect on this. You have, much to the forums' widespread chagrin, already constructed within the new LI system an enforced redundancy at each new level tier. That means that there is a limited time frame within which to assemble each new LI build. If SSG intend to continue introducing new expansions at the current rate - and I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying that I hope you do - then that window is roughly two to three years. I can understand that, in order to keep players motivated through that period, you would want to spread the acquisition of a perfect LI build over much of that period. That would be wholly reasonable.

But the current and projected systems do not do that.

They mostly achieve instead, I suspect, one of the following options:

- a desperate rush from the most committed to repeat over and over again the same instance(s) in order quickly to acquire the desired traceries - a rush that must surely lead to burn-out in a fair number of what might be assumed to be a pretty committed
segment of the player base - and then, once achieved, no further incentive to participate over the rest of the expansion
- the disengagement of much of the remainder of the players from the LI improvement path and their resigned acceptance that purples and teals are as good as they're going to get.

What you do not provide is an option for steady, measured and - to my mind crucially - assured acquisition of desired gold traceries over the extended course of the expansion cycle.

I'm sadly wholly unconvinced that this results in the sort of engagement and satisfaction with the game that I'd have assumed leads to player retention. This is particularly dispiriting in that, as mentioned above, the automatic redundancy created by the tracery level caps means that if you did provide a sure system for measured acquisition, then not only might it provide a reward system that drew players onwards with hope and satisfaction, rather than disaffected them with disappointment and frustration, but it would do so cyclically ad infinitum.

It should surely be axiomatic that a game's carrots should not turn into the sticks with which the players are beaten.

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It doesn't even have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be a raider pursuing whatever version of LI we're talking about.

Eventually people want to feel like their activities are rewarding them for what they desire. This can be anything from a landscape only-player who wants specific purples but has to farm ancient script which involves joining groups which they aren't keen on, to a T1 only player who wants specific teals but has to get them through random drops of a (currently) farmable instance, to a T5 player who wants specific golds but has extremely limited access to non-RNG sources and the potential for repeated useless drops once or twice a week (after SS starts dropping teals only) no matter how much time they have to invest in the game. This is not a good direction. In earlier years there was RNG on everyone's desired drops but except for the raids you could run the instances ad infinitum which KEPT PEOPLE PLAYING. Placing arbitrary walls around progression through locks and RNG + limited sources will really thin down the playerbase.

______________________________ _______________

I would challenge any Dev to start with nothing and even try to get a full teal LI set with traceries of their personal selection (Not parry rating on a minstrel, not AOE healing on a champ). Farm school for hours upon hours and get traceries you haven't selected. Which can only be disenchanted to get purples no matter how many you do. The goal is not to convince players that 'purple is enough' but stop people who disagree from leaving the game. 'Purple is enough' or 'A naked LI is enough' isn't going to keep the game populated.

Realise the kind of beast you've released, promised to 'negate' with the reward tracker only to say "well actually it's just a supplement" and cause more hindrance with another RNG implantation plus a limit on how much you can even engage in that RNG, then on top of all that even take away present unlimited RNG which players can choose to engage in at their whim.

1. Zero RNG Unlimited choice - Arguably unbalanced
2. Unlimited RNG opportunities, limited choice opportunities - Satisfactory at best - if you have more time you can invest it, if the RNG gets too unbearable you can simply take a break. Bad luck after enough rolls can be compensated with the choice.
3. Limited RNG opportunities, extremely limited choice opportunities - A nightmare for many players

Why are you aiming for #3?

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^^ Devs please read this! The goal is not to convince players that 'purple is enough' but stop people who disagree from leaving the game.

This an MMORPG, where we advance our characters in fun ways, different ways for different playstyles, but advance none the less. When you introduce a system where you can't reliably advance your character in a meaningful way with obvious increments then people will just stop playing.

I can accept not being able to have gold traceries and gold enhancements if I don't raid or do high tier instances, but not being able to get the 3rd out out of only 4 tiers of advancement is not going to work with me and I guess a lot of other people.

 

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Thanks for the answers. It sounds like you are going to reduce the rewards dropped in game for the reward tracker. Any chance there will be a mithril coin option? Better yet, you should sell heritage runes of different sizes in the store. Then, because, "by design", you cant see how much xp you need to advance, some people will buy an xp rune hoping it will advance to the reward, only to find it come up a bit short. ;)

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The reward track that isn't rewarding.

So much rng. Can the players choose to opt out?

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(Re: side-scrolling and "claim" buttons)

I think this is going in the wrong direction. Rather than tweak the UI to perfection, why have a UI at all? I mean, you attain the Reward Track tier, you get the reward immediately and directly, like it was a quest reward. Inventory full? Goes into Overflow, as per usual. Got the reward on a different character than the one that's going to use it? No problem -- it's account bound, transfer it to the other character, if it's something that scales, then it scales when it's opened. All of this side-scrolling and "Claim"ing UI is just extra, unnecessary micro-management for the player. I don't think folks ever liked it for Allegiances, why would it fare any better for Reward Track? At least there's no annoying "you have unclaimed rewards" message every time you log in, or, is that something that's going to be added later? Please, no.

For those who want to know what the upcoming rewards are for tiers not attained yet, just provide a standard "window-shopping" interface, like on barter NPCs. For that matter, maybe an NPC that would show you the rewards...

As for showing the progress within the current Reward Track tier, as long as it's only approximate anyway, the Allegiance "wheel" tracker widget is sufficient. Or re-use something like the Reputation Panel UI.

Re: adding a warning when Ancient Script is about to go over cap

I don't think a warning is enough, honestly. This should at least be made consistent with disenchanting, where if you would go over the Ancient Script cap, it won't let you. In other words, I'm saying an Ancient Script box shouldn't even open if it would take one over the cap. Losing barter currency makes one feel cheated, abused by the game. It should be prevented however and whenever possible even if, yes, it means saving the player from himself/herself.

And this is assuming that there should even be a cap on barter currencies -- the never-ending discussion/debate. I know the rationale is to prevent hoarding, but if you're going to save players from giving into their hoarding impulses, then on the other edge of that sword, prevent non-hoarding players from accidentally losing currency too. Once you've crossed that "saving players from themselves" threshold, it should cut both ways.

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I'll add my cry to the masses:

PLEASE LISTEN TO US

We have expressed from the new LI system's genesis that we don't like RNG tracery boxes! Post after post on the live and BR forums echo this 99% majority sentiment. We aren't even asking to be spoon fed gold traceries, but as it stands now you can't progress past purple - aka T1 Raid quality - traceries without succumbing to the whims and wiles of RNG tracery boxes. I appreciate that this reward track gives you some shattered traceries, but like many others have said its not enough if you have alts or you play a multi role class needing multiple sets of LI's.

There needs to be a reliable option to get teal & gold traceries. Let us barter for teal traceries with ancient scripts, as it stands with the new reward track we're gonna be getting far more ancient scripts than what will be useful without some sort of new sync for them. Let us be able to upgrade teal shattered traceries for gold ones. Idrc if its an ember/motes thing, I think that gold traceries should be a bit more difficult to get, but teal should be reliably attainable.

Again, please just listen to our feedback. This new LI system has done a lot of things right but leaving the most critical piece of it up to rng is just insulting, especially after being promised for so long that is reward track is the fix for it.

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With the random nature of the new system, I don't see a way to get even teal traceries. The pool of candidates being able to run the raid at T1 will be small as purple/teal traceries on a weapon and T1 instance gear drops don't give you enough mastery, mitigations and morale to survive anything else. A group of us tried T2 HoR the other day. All of the group was wearing T1 instance, landscape and quest chain drops and had weapons that were at least purple traceries. We could not get past the first boss. Yes, we were obviously not that good but T2 should have been survivable. I doubt we will survive T1 of the raid based on that experience. My kin used to have 2 pages of people online every day from morning until night U.S. time. There are times now when there is no one online and we rarely have a page of people on the social panel. LFF is dead on my server. The only thing you see is the occasional Sari Surma gold tracery run or a PUG boss 1 farm. You rarely see HoR and when you do it is at T3/4 and those instances have specific gear requirements. People won't help with T2 as there is no reason to help when the instances drop nothing useful for those who have higher level armor and traceries.

When I paid for the game and the expansion on 2 out of 3 of my accounts, I did not realize I was paying for others to enjoy the game and that you would take away my armor and weapon opportunities to appease the raiding population of the game. How many times do you think people will pay for an expansion where all they can do is dailies and all they can hope for is some script for a purple tracery? Yes, I can buy embers armor but only earning 500 embers a week, it will take a while to get enough.

From what I can see, you get a couple of good traceries from the quest chain, random drops in a few instances and the reward track is mainly random. Yes, purple traceries are probably sufficient for landscape. No, purple traceries won't work for instances above T1 and raids are something we will get to run when the level cap goes up 10 levels and we are over level for the raid.

Then, just when we finally get a leveled up weapon and are feeling positive and upbeat about the new system, everything we work for and earn will go away next cap increase when we start the random tracery grind yet again. I love the hamster wheel concept behind our new and improved legendary weapon system. Do lots of stuff, put in the effort and no forward progress, rinse and repeat. The lower level areas are getting boring too as they are pretty much empty of new players. SSG, you really need to rethink this whole system unless your goal is to weed out the lesser players and go to a WoW type player base.

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If they're struggling on T2 6 man after it's been nerfed into oblivion like 3 times now, then no. Gold traceries would make little to no difference in their groups performance. A group of decent players in quest gear could probably get T5 HoR done now with all purple traceries. The only difference it would make to have better traceries is more DPS/HPS and a decent Tank can do t2 without a healer. There are no DPS checks in the new instances so I am guessing they just had poorly performing tank/support/healer.

And this type of comment is why people are disappointed with the new system. Either you are an expert raider and great at everything or you should find something else to do. I happen to be tired of the same dailies which are difficult these days as I am by myself a lot of the time in forges and lofts. I can run missions and collect tokens to buy housing items. I can go around and collect rocks for more housing items.

I leveled a brawler to level 50 but don't see a reason to enter the Gates of Moria and have a character with nothing but an empty weapon. I am not in a hurry to get to level cap and collect more rocks. I didn't run the instances because you can't find people at the lower levels to run them and it is not fun to me to ask a level cap to clear instances for me.

Yes, T2/3/4/5 is easy for some groups. Yes, I understand those groups laugh at us and make fun of our failure to live up to their skill level. I am asking if this is really what SSG intended to do with the weapon update and expansion pack?

If the answer is yes, please just tell us so we find something within our skill level to do. Waiting around for an opportunity to improve and a reward track that will give me block and parry traceries in random drops is a waste of time and more rock collecting than I care to do. This is assuming there will be enough experience to get that high in the reward track to get those traceries.

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Basically yes, although not stated in so many words of course. The argument is that you should be satisfied with a dps stick LI, perhaps filled with a few random drops and quest rewards that may or may not be particularly useful to you.

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No one here is laughing at you or anyone else struggling to do content that is easy for other players. There are TONS of resources available on how to improve your gameplay and overall, the Lotro community is extremely friendly to lower skill players. Especially if you compare it to something like WoW where people really will laugh at you for asking questions.

If you’re going to go around acting like some sort of victim and have a bad attitude towards improving your skill/gameplay, that’s the reason you’re struggling. It isn’t that experienced players are jerks who are out to get you. Do what the rest of us did when we wanted to get the content done/get good enough to do higher tier instances: learn a rotation, learn/practice your class, and ask questions about instance mechanics.

SSG has already made T2/1 basically story mode now that there are 5 difficulty tiers. They specifically changed T1-T2C into T1-5 to make the instances/raids more accessible to casual and new players.

All I was saying is that the content available for level 140 cap doesn’t require good gear. It doesn’t require gold or even teal traceries. I’m glad you confirmed what my initial suspicions were though.

And if you really feel like you NEED better traceries, you can do what the rest of the players are doing and run School t1(tham mirdain) with some friends and it will give you teal traceries every single run. I just leveled a Burg to 140 and this is how I finished off my LI’s so I could do content that drops gold traceries.

 

 

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